Anyone running CMYKOG instead of CMYKlclm?

[Rodney Gold]

What RIP are you running and what profiles are you gonna use?
Roland dont supply OG inks for the 540 and the profiles etc would be what worries me in this regard , I wouldnt want to have to reprofile.
Why are you going of OG, are you having hassles with cmyk ,lc,lm inks?

[Shane Drew]

Thanks for the reply Rodney.

No probs with CMYKlclm at the moment.

Techink here are exploring the possability of offering it, like the toucan and similar bigger units.

Techink already got a guy operating interstate on a smaller Roland with no dramas, but looking for more test sites, and other Rolands to test the theory.

They fully cover for any problems, and I can always change back, if I want to. It is basically a software change from what I understand.

The techink people here have a profiler and offer that service to anyone changing over to the Techink inks. They have already profiled my machine with techink using Oracal products. Very impressed with the results.

They will re profile my machine with the new colours when they do the upgrade.

They are also supplying or upgrading my colour rip 2.1 is all I know.

Basically, I am going to be a test site, as I was with the Techink originally. I’m interested because I do a lot of eco signage, and it all seems to be based on greens. Never really been happy with the results of vibrant greens, when I compare it to CMYKOG printers that I’m competing with.

I have been making enquiries for some time, and I suppose when the opportunity arose, I jumped at it.

[Rodney Gold]

Yeh , I can never get a real nice green or orange on my printer , I recon go for it if you got all the tech support.

[David Rowland]

interesting… profiles would be my biggest bother as I dont have a colour meter to make our profiles and there is about 100 of the damn things on the machine (although I only use about 6-7)

[Pauly]

I think you’re game being the test site for ANYTHING to do with printing that could affect your output if the machine was on downtime for extended periods…. Ive heard some horror stories, but that said, i have a fairly good idea of who is supporting you, and i wouldnt imagine those guys would want to risk having a scar like that across their name unless they were sure the product was useable. But for me personally, downtime on the machine would be the biggest worry while they stuffed around with fixing the minor issues that are bound to arise from the transistion. Keep us posted Shane, im keen to hear how it all works out for you…..

[Shane Drew]

No worries Pauly.

The original Techink conversion took a day, and I’ve had no real downtime at all in the 18 months since we did it.

They come out and do minor checks at a time that suits me, so I work around it.

It is not happening until the end of the month, and it will be down for a day, so I have plenty of time to plan ahead.

Techink are not expecting any dramas, but it is coming up to my quiet period anyway, so I expect if I do have an issue, I can work around it. Worse comes to worse, I have two sign wholesalers that will do my printing if I get in a spot of bother.

Got those bases pretty well covered.

I’ll keep intouch with the result certainly. I suppose someone has to be a pioneer in the industry, may as well be me :lol1:

I’d much rather see ‘real’ data on this sort of stuff than ‘factory tests’ because it is never the same in the real world, is it.
😉

[Stepen Wood]

When we previewed our roland we had a demo with the two different inksets.

Our main work is for the airport ( lots of light blues, Bmi baby, flybe) and shop creatives . ( light skin tones).

We found it very difficult to achieve the results we wanted with the CMYKOG. Although we have a nightmare with oranges and greens , we rarely get asked for these colours specifically . We went with LCLM because it benefited us more.

I look forward to hearing how you get on with the conversion.

[Daniel Gillen]

Using TechInk Dual CMYK setup on a Mimaki JV3-160sp here, I don’t seem to have any real issues with greens or oranges, maybe my clients aren’t as fussy. :lol1:
I’ve tried to have the machine profiled as closely as possible to the output from our Offset CMYK presses.

Now if only i could sovle the slight beading problem I have on Mactac stock… (chat.)

Looking forward to reading how you go with the Ink change and profiling

[janfranck]

hi there,

well, here in germany it´s like this…

with all the mutoh / mimaki / roland etc… capable of printing varable dots are driven almost the same 2x cmyk… cause it makes no diffrence in large format…. the lighter the colours should be, the smaller ( through rip ) the drops are made to make it still look fine – so not really usefull in large format…

small format or photographers run their machines with lc lm because of the skin tones – only skin tones.

when you run your machine for sublimation, best is to run it orange + blue, ( not green sorry ) cause in sublimation it´s very hard to get the popping reds-blues without those or+bl inks…

the advantage of orange and green on largeformat printers might be, that it´s possible to make some colors more popping and you have a wider color gamut – with lclm it´s the same color gamut as with cmyk only…

hope this helps you somehow,
yours jan 🙂

[Shane Drew]

Update:

The cmylog conversion was done on Friday.

Found out 2 things… 1… if your run colourrip 2.1 it has to be upgraded to 2.2 or it will not work. Its a free upgrade and easily downloaded from the roland site….

The second thing is that it will not work using Versaworks…

I am really surprised about the skin tones I have printed so far, still very good, certainly for the market I’m selling in.

The ability to produce a bright orange and bright green is a really nice feature tho.

They ran out of time to reprofile the machine, so are coming back early next week. However, I am running a profile from their beta tests and it is working very well, so they may not have to alter much at all.

It is still early days, not tested RGB prints yet, but certainly works well with the orangey yellow & green signs I am printing at the moment.

I’ll let you know when I have done more testing. At this stage tho, I could never get a green or an orange anywhere near the vibrance that I am experiencing now.

Happy days so far 😛

[Tim Knight]

Hi Shane,

I order the Techink upgrade Wednesday. They actually said they where going to you place( might have been there then ) to finalise your install
getting the Orange and Green also. They said the same thing
The cheapest way to enter the Orange and Green was to use Colorip 2.2
Spewing cause we just bought Versaworks 2 mnths ago. probably wont need it now. Apparntley if you setup a file in photoshop you can add more colour channels?? but there are more expensive rips than can handle orange and green no worries. Just early days I guess

anyway let us know how you go, will do the same, should get the ink upgrade in 2 weeks or so.

with the machine environment, would need more ventiation than when using ecosol max yes?

tim

[Shane Drew]

quote SBK:

Hi Shane,

I order the Techink upgrade Wednesday. They actually said they where going to you place( might have been there then ) to finalise your install
getting the Orange and Green also. They said the same thing
The cheapest way to enter the Orange and Green was to use Colorip 2.2
Spewing cause we just bought Versaworks 2 mnths ago. probably wont need it now. Apparntley if you setup a file in photoshop you can add more colour channels?? but there are more expensive rips than can handle orange and green no worries. Just early days I guess

anyway let us know how you go, will do the same, should get the ink upgrade in 2 weeks or so.

with the machine environment, would need more ventiation than when using ecosol max yes?

tim

Oh dear mate, Versaworks does not run Orange or Green. Colorrip 2.2 is much better tha 2.1 too.

I work beside the machine with an extraction fan in the wall behind the machine (bathroom fan) and it does not worry me. Customers comment from time to time about the odour tho.

Photoshop and Corel allow you to set up O & G channels but I have not got me head around that yet.

I plan on upgrading to a more professioanl RIP when I can justify the expense, but for now, I’m happy to stay with 2.2.

I am really happy with the upgrade, Oranges are nice and bright, and the greens are excellent too.

I am happy that I’ve made the change certainly.

Let me know what you think.

How did you go with the sign awards?

[Rodney Gold]

Shane , Colorip is the Wasatch RIP , you arent goiing to get much better than that unless you spend silly money , its a VERY good rip.

[Shane Drew]

quote Rodney Gold:

Shane , Colorip is the Wasatch RIP , you arent goiing to get much better than that unless you spend silly money , its a VERY good rip.

Thanks Rodney. I appreciate the advice. I respect your knowledge of such things mate, so I’ll stay put then. Thanks for taking the time to let me know.

I agree with what you say about silly money too.

[Tim Knight]

Hi Shane,
I think the guys at AGS helped us out cause we jumped the cue.
Got our ink conversion yesterday with Orange and Green.
So far so go also.

Eli didn’t get to make many profiles on the 2 days, ran out of time
going to make some up asap

does stink alot more, have added an exhaust manifold on the back with
dust cover for the media, worked out ok.

also added a split system aircond / heater. the room is a dog box and in the mornings in cold and arvo’s to hot. so want to have it more stable for
printing. anyway will keep you posted how it goes

tim

[Tim Knight]

Hey Shane,

hows the Techink O&G going?
have had it for 2 weeks now, going well.
the only thing which has suprised me a little is
we are ordering CMYK bottles today and we haven’t done a great deal of printing. but it seems to use more on the techink, have you had the same thoughts? I mean 1 bottle is suppose to be 4 cartridges worth but can’t say we have used that many yet, could be we the initial startup, filling the lines and the back cartridges has they are pretty full, just a thought.

ALso how do you find colorip with the O&G. We loved the versaworks program but hard going back ( we think anyway ) in rip program.

eli from AGS doing some more profilling this week

tim

[Shane Drew]

quote SBK:

Hey Shane,

hows the Techink O&G going?
have had it for 2 weeks now, going well.
the only thing which has suprised me a little is
we are ordering CMYK bottles today and we haven’t done a great deal of printing. but it seems to use more on the techink, have you had the same thoughts? I mean 1 bottle is suppose to be 4 cartridges worth but can’t say we have used that many yet, could be we the initial startup, filling the lines and the back cartridges has they are pretty full, just a thought.

ALso how do you find colorip with the O&G. We loved the versaworks program but hard going back ( we think anyway ) in rip program.

eli from AGS doing some more profilling this week

tim

Tim, I feel I have been using more ink since I changed to colorip 2.2. I enquired and it is, they tell me, the new way that colorrip 2.2 does the config as 2.1 was very different. Some colours are more solid than the previous 2.1 though, so it may make sense in that regard

That said, I’m also doing more printing than I ever have done in the recent past, so it may be a coincidence I suppose.

Don’t forget you are not using Lt cy and Lt mg to make up some colours now, so the usage will be higher on those Cy and Mg colours, but this will be compensated by less usage of orange and green.

I do a huge amount of warning signs, so my magenta use has increased significantly as I don’t have lt mg to offset it, but my orange is very slow.

Hope that makes sense.

[Tim Knight]

Of Course, Didn’t even consider the Lt cyan & lt Magenta makes sense.
The ink laid down seems pretty thick, but doesn’t bleed so I think its ok
Very happy with the results and how fast it dries and is resistant to a few nastys like metho, turps and isoprop.
Did a race car yesterday with orajet 3551RA no clearcoat
and it went on really nice and the final result is great
not really scratch resistant is this application but doesn’t have to last too long. car will have panel damage before the graphics fail.

All the best and thanks for the tip
Hope you and your Dad are doing well

tim

[Radu T]

Just bought an Asbru 645 (Roland Soljet Pro II modified). I’m using also TechInk. The only RIP that I have that supports CMYKOG is Onyx. For 2 days now I’m trying to make a usable profile without success. Everything seems fine until I print my ICC patches (generated from Monaco Profiler). The patches look awfully; everything is greenish.
Getting desperate here. I think I will switch to Lc and Lm.

If somebody has any experience with profiling in Onyx Postershop, I appreciate any help.

[Shane Drew]

quote Radu T:

Just bought an Asbru 645 (Roland Soljet Pro II modified). I’m using also TechInk. The only RIP that I have that supports CMYKOG is Onyx. For 2 days now I’m trying to make a usable profile without success. Everything seems fine until I print my ICC patches (generated from Monaco Profiler). The patches look awfully; everything is greenish.
Getting desperate here. I think I will switch to Lc and Lm.

If somebody has any experience with profiling in Onyx Postershop, I appreciate any help.

I’m using colorrip 2.2. once I had the machine calibrated I’ve had no problems, but calibration was the key. They then profiled my machine using my material.

Thats my experience anyway. Before calibration, and the profiling, I had the same problem, everything printed with a darker shade than I was expecting.

Cheers

[Radu T]

I am doing the profiling myself. It seems that Onyx has some issues or I am doing something wrong. Anyway I tried a lot of settings and ways. It still looks bad. I don’t have the Wasatch, because i would surely try it. The PhotoPrint does not recognize the Xrite Pulse (DTP20) that I have for profiling, so I am I’m getting crazy. The Onyx guys are sending one email pro day, which does not help either. I have a new printer and I’m not able to print something useful. Luckily I still have a Spitfire 65, but that one gives me headaches from time to time.
Tomorrow i convert to Lc and Lm and I’m waiting then until I got a Wasatch or I have more information regarding the CMYKOG profiling.
What are You using as an ICC profile generator?

[Shane Drew]

I paid the techink suppliers here to come out and profile it for me to be honest. Looked at doing it myself but I (a) don’t have the time and (b) probably don’t have the intelligence either :lol1:

Sorry I can’t help any more than that.

I thought of upgrading to Onyx last year when I did the upgrade, but the techink guys tell me that as long as I upgraded to 2.2 of colourrip (2.1 does not support OG) then I’d find it easier to profile than Onyx. Sounds like they may have been right by what you say.

Shouldn’t the company you purchased the printer from be of some help?

Guess not.

Cheers
Shane

[Radu T]

I am trying again Orange and Green profiling. Just to make sure, can anybody tell me the ink order in the Test Print with CMYKOG? Mine is CMYKGrOr. Yhanks

[George Kern]

quote Shane Drew:

I am getting my Bulk Feed solvent techinks on my Roland 540 changed over at the end of the month from CMYKlclm to CMYKOG.

Just curious if there are pro’s and con’s from those that have tried it.

I’ll get a better gamut of colours, and green and orange will be better than what I have now, but will there be any losses as well?

Just curious that’s all.

Shane,

One thing I would definately look into is the status of your warranties when it comes to doing anything Fleet printing. Avery & 3M both have released white papers on this subject about MegaInks & Triangle inks voiding their ICS and MCS warranties regarding fleet graphics. Just something to keep in mind.

[Stephen Morriss]

Radu why not get colorip from the Roland (it’s free and only works with Roland printers) website and then ask Shane very nicely if he will send you one of his profiles to try, then you may have a better idea if orange and green will work for you.

Steve

[Radu T]

That’s an idea, but as far as I know, the ColoRIP does not support the SJ-645 EX printer. Only the 640.
Anyway I was trying this time the Wasatch SoftRIP 6.1, which is more or less the same.
Of course there was no predefined ink-set for Or&Gr, so I had to make a new one. I had some problems with the head order when making the new ink set. Finally got it working, but again when I print out the ICC patches, the colors are way off. So I thought there might be a slight chance that I inverse Orange with Green colors.

[Shane Drew]

quote George Kern:

Shane,

One thing I would definately look into is the status of your warranties when it comes to doing anything Fleet printing. Avery & 3M both have released white papers on this subject about MegaInks & Triangle inks voiding their ICS and MCS warranties regarding fleet graphics. Just something to keep in mind.

George, I’ve had 3M out, they are offering me some pretty good deals to dump Oracal and use their 3M product. They know I’m running Techink, which is an OEM supplier to a lot of the big brand solvent printers out there. Certainly Techink is considered ‘Gold class’ when it comes to solvent conversions.

One of Oracal’s biggest Australian distributors are also the Techink distributors, so I don’t think there would be a conflict with the material and ink there either.

Radu, my profiles will not help as the have been done on a spectrometer for the materials I use.

Cheers

[Radu T]

Thanks anyway Shane.
I would really like to know the ink order in the Test Print of a Roland printer. And second, if You could look in ColoRIP (in Wasatch You can do that) in the Properties Tab of a profile to check the Ink Set ink order (Head1 – Cyan etc.)
Thanks in advance.

[Shane Drew]

quote Radu T:

Thanks anyway Shane.
I would really like to know the ink order in the Test Print of a Roland printer. And second, if You could look in ColoRIP (in Wasatch You can do that) in the Properties Tab of a profile to check the Ink Set ink order (Head1 – Cyan etc.)
Thanks in advance.

I use Wasatch Colour Rip. I’ll check this out when I get back to the office tomorrow, and let you know.

Cheers
Shane

[Radu T]

I think I know where the problem is. I always generated from Monaco Profiler the 6 color patches. Now when I save them in tiff format, it converts them to CMYK and changes the colors. When I save them in DCS format, it’s a Multichannel color format, which will not be recognized by Wasatch.
Generating CMYK patches, does not make any sense to me.
Anybody ideas?

[Chris Wool]

not at the unit now but i am sure the og gr cart position is written on the rear of my 540

chris

[David Rowland]

in response to topic title, the Spandex Salora II is Orange and Green and the prints I have seen from the machine are very powerful in colour accracy for difficult to reach RGB colours.

[Radu T]

Tried yesterday also the PhotoPrint 5 and made a profile with it’s internal profile generator (normally it does not support OrGr for SJ Pro II 645, but the Asbru driver allows it and I own an Asbru ). Everything was peachy until I finished the profile. After that I got "RIP error" when trying to rip any file. I’m so doomed.
The ink order, the Wasatch was referring to, was actually the cassette order from the back and not the actual head/color order.
Still I am stuck. If anybody knows something about exactly which patches need to be generated from Profile Maker or Monaco Profiler and what is to be done so they will be correctly printed by the RIP, I would appreciate it.