Another big name closing stores

[John Childs]

The list lengthens.

And there’s going to be a lot more. 🙁

[Martin Cole]

All very sad, their dropping like flys

As John says more will follow especially after the BOE’s news on the economy for the coming year.

[Brian Little]

yi pit is sad to see al these people chucked on the scrapper …… i was watching the news the other night abot the fire service in one particular state or town in america that advertised 35 job …..over 1000 applied 😕

[Paul S Martin]

All Very Sad 😥

[Jill Marie Welsh]

Here’s a list from a few months back of USA businesses which are folding:

Circuit City (filed Chapter 11)
Ann Taylor 117 stores nationwide closing
Lane Bryant, Fashion Bug ,and Catherine’s to close 150 stores nationwide
Eddie Bauer to close stores 27 stores and more after January
Cache will close all stores
Talbots closing down specialty stores
J. Jill closing all stores (owned by Talbots) Pacific Sunwear (also
owned by Talbots)
GAP closing 85 stores
Footlocker closing 140 stores more to close after January
Wickes Furniture closing down
Levitz closing down remaining stores
Bombay closing remaining stores
Zales closing down 82 stores and 105 after January
Whitehall closing all stores
Piercing Pagoda closing all stores
Disney closing 98 stores and will close more after January.
Home Depot closing 15 stores
Macys to close 9 stores after January
Linens and Things closing all stores
Movie Galley Closing all stores
Pep Boys Closing 33 stores
JC Penney closing a number of stores after January
Ethan Allen closing down 12 stores.
Wilson Leather closing down all stores
Sharper Image closing down all stores
K B Toys closing 356 stores
Loews to close down some stores
Dillard’s to close some stores

and locally, 84 Lumber.
Sad times.
Love….Jill

[Shane Drew]

They announced that Starbucks are closing 61 of their 80 stores here in Australia. 700 staff were told they would lose their jobs in 24 hours from the announcement.

Plus 600 Starbucks closing in the States with 12,000 jobs last year.

Makes being a small self employed person not a bad career move I guess.

Following the problems in the sub-prime lending market in America and the run on Northern Rock in the UK, uncertainty has now hit Japan.

In the last 7 days Origami Bank has folded, Sumo Bank has gone belly up and Bonsai Bank announced plans to cut some of its branches.

Yesterday, it was announced that Karaoke Bank is up for sale and will likely go for a song, while today shares in Kamikaze Bank were suspended after they nose-dived.

While Samurai Bank is soldiering on following sharp cutbacks, Ninja Bank is reported to have taken a hit, but they remain in the black.

Furthermore, 500 staff at Karate Bank got the chop and analysts report that there is something fishy going on at Sushi Bank where it is feared that staff may get a raw deal.

[Earl Smith]

Nice one Shane, made me smile.

[John Thomson]

quote Shane Drew:

Makes being a small self employed person not a bad career move I guess.

It worked for Rob 😀

quote Shane Drew:

In the last 7 days Origami Bank has folded, Sumo Bank has gone belly up and Bonsai Bank announced plans to cut some of its branches.

Yesterday, it was announced that Karaoke Bank is up for sale and will likely go for a song, while today shares in Kamikaze Bank were suspended after they nose-dived.

While Samurai Bank is soldiering on following sharp cutbacks, Ninja Bank is reported to have taken a hit, but they remain in the black.

Furthermore, 500 staff at Karate Bank got the chop and analysts report that there is something fishy going on at Sushi Bank where it is feared that staff may get a raw deal.

Not a funny subject but that cheered up my Friday morning
:lol1:

John

[David Lowery]

quote Shane Drew:

uncertainty has now hit Japan.

In the last 7 days Origami Bank has folded, Sumo Bank has gone belly up and Bonsai Bank announced plans to cut some of its branches.

Yesterday, it was announced that Karaoke Bank is up for sale and will likely go for a song, while today shares in Kamikaze Bank were suspended after they nose-dived.

While Samurai Bank is soldiering on following sharp cutbacks, Ninja Bank is reported to have taken a hit, but they remain in the black.

Furthermore, 500 staff at Karate Bank got the chop and analysts report that there is something fishy going on at Sushi Bank where it is feared that staff may get a raw deal.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[John Childs]

quote Shane Drew:

Makes being a small self employed person not a bad career move I guess.

Well, at least we’re the masters of our own destinies.

I am convinced that we have only seen the start, and that much worse is to come.

There’s plenty of people been blaming the media for being all doom and gloom and only spreading despondency. I think that’s bo11ocks because the media can only report what they see, and I don’t think that even they realise just how bad things are going to get.

For the majority of people, those who still have their jobs, this recession is not a problem. They are still earning good money, and it still keeps rolling in every week and this financial stuff is just something abstract that they read about in the newspapers. Until a lot more people feel some pain themselves, nothing will change, because they have no incentive to change their lifestyle until it is forced upon them.

The only businesses that are going to survive are those who have kept their overheads under control, and are prepared to cut their profit margins to suit the times. The more arrogant ones, who think they can keep their high margins, are in for a serious wake-up call sooner or later. Those that can adapt to the circumstances and tailor their cloth accordingly, are the ones who will come out the other side and be in a position to take advantage of the next upturn.

I’m amazed at the the companies and individuals who come round here flogging their goods and services, who insist on charging the same prices as they could when things were booming, or even increasing them. Unless they are in a very strong position (monopoly situation) they are likely to go away empty handed, and the business go to their more realistic competitors.

I really hate to say this, but I think there is going to be an awful lot less people on UKSB in a year’s time. 🙁

[Robert Lambie]

quote John Childs:

I’m amazed at the the companies and individuals who come round here flogging their goods and services, who insist on charging the same prices as they could when things were booming, or even increasing them. Unless they are in a very strong position (monopoly situation) they are likely to go away empty handed, and the business go to their more realistic competitors.

i agree on many of your points john, but got to disagree on dropping your prices is the only way to compete.
with off the shelf products i can see how this will happen and agree to an extent.
but we are creative professionals. there is so much more to our work than handing over the same product as the guy next door.

.

[Warren Beard]

quote John Childs:

I really hate to say this, but I think there is going to be an awful lot less people on UKSB in a year’s time. 🙁

I’ve been wondering if we were going to start seeing a rise in more newbies, especially those with Chinese cutters (you know the type I mean) There has to be a high amount of newly redundant people who can’t get jobs who think they need to try something on their own, many could try this industry which would not be good at all for any of us in this economic climate no matter how good our design skills are.

Warren

[John Childs]

quote Robert Lambie:

but we are creative professionals. there is so much more to our work than handing over the same product as the guy next door.

Not for me there isn’t. Anybody on this board will whack out vehicle graphics. 😀

As a company, we compete on service, but that’s something which helps us to keep the clients we already have. It does little to win us new business.

When a potential client is interviewing for a new supplier he might talk to four or five of us, and we all sit at his desk and promise him the best service in the world. How’s he to know which of us will deliver and who is full of it? The fact is that he can’t, and therefore price plays a large part in his decision making.

Sorry mate, but I think the "creative professional" bit is overstating the case a bit and I’ve never seen myself in that light, I’m just providing an ordinary service, and could be replaced by any of my competitors at any time. The fact is that the vast majority of signmakers turn out everyday bread and butter signs that could be done by somebody with a little lower opinion of his capabilities. I’ve got a job on my desk now, just a couple of door signs. Dead simple, no creative input required and not worth much. Not the sort of work we like, but we’re going to do them.

Sure, there are customers out there who are still prepared to pay big money for flash signage, but there’s not enough to keep us all in luxury. And the list is getting shorter. Zavvi won’t be buying any more signs as just one example. Even those potential customers that are still in business will be reducing their spend, either by delaying replacements, downsizing themselves, or looking for cheaper alternatives. They will have to do that to ensure the survival of their own companies. That has got to impact on us.

We see on here people buying Rabbits because they are fed up with being charged what they see as high prices by creative professionals. They might be right, and they might be wrong, but for every company that takes that route it means one less customer for us.

[Shane Drew]

I agree with most of your points John, but I do think the press are largely to blame for the downturn in business and lack of spending. They are in the business of bad news afterall.

The crisis is one thing, but you know yourself that if you go through any business, too much negativity will eventually be your demise.

That’s not to say that you shouldn’t be realistic, but to be fed constant negativity by the press is not good for anyone.

The press does it because it sells papers. There is a saying in public relations…. there is no better story than a dramatic one. Drama keeps people glued to the telly or paper or whatever.

Our fires are a good example. One of our morning TV shows is telecasting live from the fire zone everyday – Australia wide basically. Our TV’s are full of it. Its getting depressing…. but try and buy a paper after 6pm… they sell out like never before… and there are no shortage of advertisers around news time.

The other thing I agree with is pricing. More and more people are asking ‘is that the best you can do?’ when I quote now. I’m reluctant to lower my prices, and will only do so if I had a good margin to start with. But I will consider it.

I had a good customer write to me and say she was having difficulty paying my bill. I thanked her for her honesty, and told her to pay a bit each month, and I’d be happy. Hopefully she’ll stay afloat, and it will build some good will.

On the other had, I had a small problem with my 2nd machine this morning. I thought I’d blown a pump (no ink at all). I rang my normal service technicians and they quoted me the same as they were charging last year. I decided to ring another company I’ve also used in the past, and he gave me a considerable discount to keep my business. Turns out it was the thingamy bob on the whatsit (too technical?), point is if I am prepared to shop around, then I should expect my clients will be too.

I’d like to think that regular customers will stick with me, but I am conscious that they are probably looking to save a penny if they can. Now I give them a cheaper option if I know I can save some money doing it differently. Its working for me and I’m still very busy.

That said, I give them excellent service, and my opposition don’t. Service costs nothing, but is a sale-able item, so its worth remembering too.

On the thought of being inundated with newbies…. probably…. but I think it would be a brave person to lash out in the present economy and start up something new.

Car detailing, window cleaning, dog washing and lawn mowing is the thing everyone is getting into here, because the outlay is minimal. Thats not to say that people will not try our industry, but I suspect John is also right, in that a few will probably not be here in 12 to 18 months as it will get harder before it gets any better.

[John Childs]

quote Shane Drew:

The crisis is one thing, but you know yourself that if you go through any business, too much negativity will eventually be your demise.

That’s not to say that you shouldn’t be realistic, but to be fed constant negativity by the press is not good for anyone.

I know I am coming across as all doom and gloom Shane, but I still think that most people don’t fully understand the severity of the problem, and that things cannot get better until they do, and take steps to deal with it.

My philosophy has always been to hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

[Martin Cole]

With regards to the media, I think they should have been making loud noises a few years back when this all started brewing, massive over borrowing, the banks knew it was a ticking time bomb as would the press have done.
If they had kicked up back then half as much as they do know about what was going on I genuinly don’t think we would be in the mess we are today.

The media is a powerful thing and they should have taken an active role in making these greedy tunnel visioned bankers wake up and smell the coffee way before the enevatable was going to happen.

[John Childs]

quote Martin Cole:

With regards to the media, I think they should have been making loud noises a few years back when this all started brewing, massive over borrowing, the banks knew it was a ticking time bomb as would the press have done.
If they had kicked up back then half as much as they do know about what was going on I genuinly don’t think we would be in the mess we are today.

The media is a powerful thing and they should have taken an active role in making these greedy tunnel visioned bankers wake up and smell the coffee way before the enevatable was going to happen.

I think they did Martin, but nobody wanted to hear it then, and it was ignored. They have been warning for some years about the level of public, private and corporate debt.

I can remember the headlines when individual indebtedness rose to over one trillion pounds but just about every pundit, banker, businessman and government employee, especially the elected ones, insisted that it wasn’t a problem because our economy was big enough to support that level of borrowing. Well, they were only right for as long as the merry-go-round kept turning.

It has always been obvious to me that a country that produces nothing, and just lives on selling non-essential services to each other, cannot survive a recession without a great deal of pain.

[Shane Drew]

I think you credit the media with a morality that they don’t actually have :lol1: I think if Murdoch used his influence in the media a few years ago, he may have made a difference, but the fact is, he made his millions from the very industry that he should have exposed.

But I do agree that no one wanted to hear it anyway.

Our ex Treasurer said over a year ago that his government had a $50bil surplus to protect us from the oncoming ‘financial tsunami’ – his exact words, and the opposition Labor party accused him of being out of touch and scare mongering.

They got kicked out of government, and a little over 12 months later we are heading for a $200bil debt. Now the present labor government is saying that ‘no one saw this coming’ and he is trying to look like he is everyones mate by giving everyone money to spend.

It amazing how the former treasurer was ignored, and the new guy is a pleading ignorance. Typically, people ignore the obvious until its too late. Greed pays a large part too of course.

I’d prefer thinking positive. If small businesses look after each other, its far easier than trying to go it alone.

Thats my take anyway.

[Steve McAdie]

One reason for some of these companies going under is that there isn’t the investment on the stock market anymore that there was a year or so a go. Then these companies who had never made a days profit could float on aim and sell their shares to people who snapped them up giving the companies funds to continue for another year then when they ran out of money they would float more shares and continue for another year. A recession can have a good effect on the economy in certain areas as the dead wood gets cut out and the strong survive. The worrying thing is that this could become a depression and if you look at the great depression of 1929 and the causes of it and what it took to come out of it then it gets a little more worrying.

Steve

[Shane Drew]

Recession = when some one you know loses their job
Depression = when you lose your job
Great Depression = everyone loses their job.

I guess it could happen Steve 😮

[Steve McAdie]

When you look at the causes they are remarkably similar to todays situation. I read the other day that the word Bankster – (banker/gangster), coined during the depression has reappeared.
I like your definitions.

Steve

[Phill Fenton]

One thing is for sure – hyper inflation is the only way we’re going to get out of this mess.

The government realise this and talk knowledgeably about quantitively easing the economy (printing lots of money) – the money markets have anticipated it (which is why the pound has plunged in value because Britain and America is going to suffer more hyper inflation than anywhere else).

House prices aren’t going to fall because people aren’t selling houses any more – only inflation will erode away their inflated values which will get the market moving again

John – I think it’s time you converted all those used notes stuffed under your mattress into gold bullion 😕

You mark my words – :booty:

[Steve McAdie]

We could all help the economy by using our printers for quantitive easing. 😕

[John Childs]

quote Phill:

John – I think it’s time you converted all those used notes stuffed under your mattress into gold bullion 😕

That’s already done. 😀

I’ve started taking my money out of the UK banks and putting it elsewhere.

Yesterday I bought a bunch of Premium Bonds. OK, thereturn on them is cr@p, but so is bank interest, especially after paying tax on it. I reckoned that if I was getting no worthwhile return on my money then I might as well at least be in with a small chance of a million pound prize. Which would be tax-free. 😀

[John Childs]

And I’ve made another major concession to the recession.

I’m cutting down to six holidays only this year. 🙁

[Martin Cole]

quote John Childs:

And I’ve made another major concession to the recession.

I’m cutting down to six holidays only this year. 🙁

Nice to know your doing your bit to help John, just didn’t realise things were that bad for you…….down to just the six now, you’ll have to start going to work more often if things get any worse.

😀

[George Elsmore]

1 would be nice 😥

[John Thomson]

quote John Childs:

And I’ve made another major concession to the recession.

I’m cutting down to six holidays only this year. 🙁

at least the Goldwing will help increase global warming and cut my gas and electricity bills…….take more holidays John 😀

John

[John Childs]

quote John Thomson:

at least the Goldwing will help increase global warming and cut my gas and electricity bills…….take more holidays John 😀

Doing my best John. I’m going to rent a Hummer for a week on my next holiday. 😛

OK. Here you go. Stupidity in motion…….

Our government has done everything in it’s power to destroy Land Rover Jaguar. They have not only increased personal taxes so that very few people can afford to buy their products, they have also increased the taxes on the vehicles themselves, so that the few that can afford to buy them think twice about it. They really could not do more to ensure the demise of LRJ.

Then our illustrious government express surprise when LRJ find the going difficult, and give them 1.5 bn to help them.

Joined up government my @rse. How dim do you have to be to think that that is a good way to run a country?

We will not get out of this recession whilst such idiotic thinking is allowed to continue.

[Peter Normington]

John, the government didnt destroy landrover,
it destroyed itself, it grew into a dinosaur, and couldnt keep up with the modern world 😀

Although it is pathetic the government should considered helping them out

Peter

[John Childs]

Peter, sure Land Rover Jaguar has it’s problems, but that’s not the point I was trying to make. The reason I use them as an example is that, because of the niche they occupy at the upper end of the market, the effect on them has been greater.

The mayhem is industrywide, with even the likes of Nissan and Toyota laying off people at Sunderland and Derby. Then there’s Honda at Swindon, I can’t remember offhand what they’re doing, but it’s something like closing the plant completely for six months. These are companies who make small fuel efficient cars as a part of their product line.

My complaint is that for years the government has waged war on the motorist by increasing taxes on every aspect of running a car, then they act surprised when the industry goes into meltdown.

Back to Land Rover Jaguar. They are such a menace to the planet that the taxes imposed on their products were justified, or they’re not.

If they aren’t, and the company is worth saving, then why were the taxes imposed in the first place? If they are such a menace, and shouldn’t be allowed to to continue, then why bail them out?

[Shane Drew]

I actually agree with you on this one John 🙂 Why bail them out if they are such a bad thing to have around. Must be an election coming up. I imagine owners of these vecihles are voters too 🙂

Our government has instituted a ‘Luxury tax’ on vehicles.

It was designed to only affect the ‘upper class’ amongst us, but the threshold price kicks in so low it also affects big families. Ok if the big family wants to settle for a basic 8 or 9 seat bus (Hyundai) with little creature comforts, but the minute someone wants to have something remotely comfortable (VW/Vito), or as in the case of most big families, want to buy something reasonably good so it will last a fair while before they replace it, they are immediately penalised by the luxury tax.

4×4’s are the same. Most of the ‘good’ ones meet the threshold easily. 4×4’s do have a place though. Here, our farmers I think are exempt, but we don’t have those exemptions for people who work in our snow fields or in the outback.

Typical politics though. Nothing makes sense anymore.

[Robert Lambie]

quote John Childs:

quote Robert Lambie:

but we are creative professionals. there is so much more to our work than handing over the same product as the guy next door.

Not for me there isn’t. Anybody on this board will whack out vehicle graphics. 😀

John, i know the line of work you do and i also know you make a good job of it. yes your right signage does have more areas to improve and better the compatition on but there is equally the same in your own area.

ok, so you specialise in vehicle graphics. a large part of this is in fleet graphics.

Design wise you can better the competition on winning contracts.
the quality/life of materials you use over theirs.
the UV stability and type of ink you use.
the experience and expertise of your fitters.
the time scale and ability to complete/execute the contract.
how flexible you can be to suit customer needs.
and yes, of course, price comes into play…

take my views/opinions out of this…
i recently spoke to a representative of a huge vinyl manufacturer and we spoke about a well known national wrap campaign. they tendered for the work and lost out on price in the end. even though they did push some of the points i have above.
about a year into the contract the vinyls used by the competition began to fail. or look shabby for whatever reasons they re-approached the firm showing evidence of this and again began pushing the plus sides to using their firm and products over the competition. they have now secured the contract which costs millions once complete. i am sure you can see the moral of my story here…

yes we will loose out on some penny pincher’s. but it will be minimal…
companies that spend on their image/corporate identity do not budget in doing it twice, it is upto us to convince them that by spending /investing that bit more in your company, you will give them that peace of mind.

[Peter Normington]

Rob,
companies that put million pound jobs out to tender usually have a good idea about what they want, and will, nine times out of ten demand excactly the specification, from materials to delivey times,
so inevitably the contract comes down to price, as it will be a like for like product, this happens across the board and not just in our industry.
Most large companies will not deal with fly by nights, as to tender in the first place, any company must have a proven track record,
I understand what you are saying, but on the larger scale, all the companies will be pushing their strong points, and most will be near enough equal as far as the product is service is concerned.

Price is always going to be a big factor, with buyers, and ok they will weigh up if its worth paying more fore a better service, but only within very close margins.

I can only compare it with how I buy my materials, if "sticky vinyl" cost £10 per m from supplier "A" then I may pay £11 from supplier "B" if they give a better service, but I would not even consider paying £15 from supplier "C" as they are well off the mark.

Just my few thoughts, the big bucks will be harder to secure, and more and more companies will need to cut back margins to survive over the coming months and even years, This does not mean cutting prices for the sake of it, but just competing on a like for like basis, and staying solvent.

The example you give is fine, but in todays market, waiting a year after loosing a contract for the winning firm to have problems may be a luxury that can no longer be afforded.

Get as much as you can for any job, but dont expect to charge much more than your next competitor, otherwise you will loose out.

What I am trying to say, is there are a lot of top notch signmakers out there, and they are all competing for a smaller chunk of the action than a year ago, its a buyers market at the moment, service does matter, but like for like, price will rule.

Peter

[John Childs]

That’s where I was coming from Peter, but more eloquently put. 😀

With the exception that my customers don’t usually specify materials. That’s something that they normally expect me to make a proposal on, and give my reasons for choosing it.

Rob, with regard to my work, and thanks for the compliment, I was assuming that anybody else quoting for the same jobs as me would be doing it the same way. If they’re not then I don’t mind because I can always talk my way around quality issues on vinyl, ink, standard of fitting etc etc etc.

Design doesn’t often come into the equation. The larger customers have a corporate image manual about six inches thick, and the majority of the rest have at least a drawing prepared by their marketing folks, and all we have to do is to make it practical and in line with their budget.

[Warren Beard]

Just t add the little I know 😳

I used to work for a very large office supply company who were a "single source supplier" and I worked in their print management department, they sell printed stationary as par of the company portfolio but outsource all of it, the entire print department is just sales and admin people sitting at desks in an office, anyway the point is I got promoted to salesman and what I found towards the end of my time with them is ebidding. As mentioned above a large company will have all their specification noted right down to (in this case) how many paperclips and letterheads they use in a year. They submit their buying lists to all relevant potential suppliers and are informed on what day and what time they need to log on to a bidding site, the auction lasts for a set period of time (usually about 2 hours in our cases) and it is live, all potential suppliers bid against each other offering lower and lower prices until time runs out and the lowest price wins the bid and secures the contract. There is also all the details laid out in the proposal of the type of service and quailty they expect etc and if you can’t supply then don’t bid.

It was a terrible experience for me to try get work this way and I think was the beginning for me to start thinking about getting out, it totally alienates any relationship and promotes a very cold "cheap" relationship with you future possible customer.

Not sure if or when this type of bidding will ever filter down to our industry (obviously only for large contracts) but does just go to show that what has been mentioned above is true and for many industries but is the worse form of "selling" as a salesman I have ever been subjected too.

[Shane Drew]

Warren, we have several suppliers here, some that phone sell, some that e-sell (send you constant reminders by email of their specials) and salespeople that call personally.

In just about every case, the sales guy/girl are slightly dearer than the other forms of selling, but I prefer the personal contact, and relationship that can be built.

Talking to one of the sales guys the other day, they like to have an opportunity to see how their clients are going too. It works both ways.

So, I understand what you say. Relationships with a rep is very important for me. If I’m having a cash flow issue, I find the companies with reps that call are usually far more forgiving if I’m late in paying, whereas the others will put you on stop credit in a heart beat.

I’m finding price variation is starting to be really pronounced now though.

I had two reps call in this week, one offered me a 5 year product (which I have been using for several years) for an increased price of $600 a roll, and the second rep offered me a similar spec’d product for a reduced price of $400 a roll.

Guess which one I purchased.

End of the day, just as price is important for us, we should expect our clients will look for savings too.

I make a big deal about offering a reduction in the invoice now. If its a client I DON’T want to lose, before they ask, I’ll now include a loyalty % discount on all invoices. I get some very positive comments back too, so clearly clients are being conscious of budgets, and it is a good idea to look after those clients in these tougher times that have looked after you in the good times.

[Phill Fenton]

Let’s not get too carried away with the idea of cutting prices because times are getting harder.

Look at Ford and all the major car manufacturers. Despite the fact that sales have dropped through the floor they are raising prices (Ford by 5%) in Britain because of the weak pound. In Britain our currency has effectively been devalued by our governments recent actions. And this is set to continue once the banks start to print more money. So even if you still charge the same today as you did a year ago you are effectively cheaper. In the past 12 months materials prices have gone up either as a result of oil prices – or more recently because of the weak pound. So even if you charge the same as you did a year ago you are still making less profit. Start dropping prices and you are on the slippery slope to becoming the "busy fools" we all complain about. 😕

[Shane Drew]

I still increase my prices through the year tho phill. Any supplier increases are passed on a I get them. My pricing software does that automatically.

I’ve had a 15% increase late last year, 15% this month and another 15% is due in April. My prices go up accordingly.

VW offered me $5000 off if I purchased this month, and you can get $3000 off a ford here any day of the week, so discounts are another form of selling. You have to make sure you have the margins to have the discount to offer.

It doesn’t work if you are too cheap in the first place. Its all about starting with decent margins before you apply the discount..

[John Childs]

I’m quite sympathetic to your views Phill, but there is another side of the coin to the busy fool scenario. Is standing in an empty workshop because all our customers have defected to a competitor who was prepared to accept smaller margins any better?

[John Thomson]

quote Phill:

Let’s not get too carried away with the idea of cutting prices because times are getting harder.

Look at Ford and all the major car manufacturers. Despite the fact that sales have dropped through the floor they are raising prices (Ford by 5%) in Britain because of the weak pound.

The reality is that RRP’s for cars are a complete nonsense and bear no relation to the prices actually paid!

Who would pay full retail for as car or van?

John

[Phill Fenton]

You mean to say the £19,500 I paid for my brand new Ford Mondeo a few years ago was too much? 😮 :doh: :you:

[John Childs]

Used car values have taken a real pasting.

As mentioned on another thread, I’ve just bought a Focus 2.0 Ghia automatic estate, in excellent nick, with 19,000 miles on it, for £5,000. That has got to be a bargain.

Never mind who would pay full retail, who would by new at all, when there are so many excellent value used cars out there?

The Ford dealer in Corby has gone into administration, along with the rest of Camden Group Services Ltd, and Camden Fleet Solutions Ltd.

So who can say now that main dealer prices are too expensive? They were trying to provide a professional service, but that’s not protecting them from the recession. And it won’t protect signmakers either. 🙁

[John Childs]

On the subject of used car values, apparently they have firmed up quite a bit at the auctions since the turn of the year. A friend of mine in the trade has a theory on that – he likens it to running over a cat.

When you do that, the cat suddenly finds a burst of hyper energy, and scuttles off somewhere at high speed to die. He reckons that’s where car values are now, that burst of energy before collapsing.

[Phill Fenton]

Ah – but isn’t a cat supposed to have nine lives 😮

[John Childs]

quote Phill:

Ah – but isn’t a cat supposed to have nine lives 😮

Yeah, but they’ve had eight. 😀

[John Thomson]

To get back on topic I have it on good authority from a source with contacts inside KPMG that liquidators have been actively working with both Boots and B & Q since before Xmas…………expect to hear about some major ‘restructuring’ as a best case senario for both these companies.

john

[Harry Cleary]

SAAB in trouble too……announcement imminent by all accounts.

[John Thomson]

My brother is a Mercedes salesman…….a couple of weeks ago a customer came in who had bought a SAAB but GM finance UK had no money so could not provide the finance…………after the deal was signed and sealed they had to renage on it………

john

[Chris Dowd]

Our local newspaper was running the SAAB story earlier this week. It said they have 10 days to find a buyer or 47,000 jobs globally were going!!

[David Rogers]

And Barratts (and Priceless) shoe shops are closing too – not that I can recall ever buying shoes there…but 2500 jobs are set to go as announced today.

[Peter Normington]

Our Butcher is doing well, he is selling more sirloin and fillet steaks than ever. and its the same at our local off license, selling record amounts of booze, people are economizing on a scale that is similar to the war years.

M&S are launching a range of economy sandwiches next week, fronted by the Jam sarnie for 75p (no I am not joking)

Peter

[John Thomson]

GM have effectively filed for bankruptcy for Saab……… http://pistonheads.co.uk/news/default.asp?storyId=19407

John

[Shane Drew]

quote Peter Normington:

Our Butcher is doing well, he is selling more sirloin and fillet steaks than ever. and its the same at our local off license, selling record amounts of booze, people are economizing on a scale that is similar to the war years.

M&S are launching a range of economy sandwiches next week, fronted by the Jam sarnie for 75p (no I am not joking)

Peter

I was visiting a client this morning who owns a family steak restaurant. Last week was his best week ever, and he’s taking bookings for weeks in advance now… seems people will still eat well even if they don’t have a lot of money.

While I was out, I took my father for a cappuccino at McDonalds and the queue was literally out the door. The bottle shop across the road is doing a roaring trade too.

One of my clients in the fire extinguisher industry is putting on extra staff and has never been busier he tells me.

Having said that, I’ve had several sign shops ring me looking for work. I’m booked out for a fortnight, but I’m not too keen to give any away either 😕

[David Rowland]

I keep looking around the Auction sites for equipment 😉

[Nigel Hindley]

MacDonalds have apparently taken on 4000 new staff in the UK which does seem an awful lot but also Dominoes Pizza are doing well too.

The thing i cant understand is that I hear all this gloom on the news but in reality I don’t know anyone who is personally affected (yet) and don’t see any slow down in spending in business I’m involved in or when I go shopping, having said that everyday I wake up thinking this is the day it will hit!

[Peter Normington]

quote Nigel Hindley:

MacDonalds have apparently taken on 4000 new staff in the UK which does seem an awful lot but also Dominoes Pizza are doing well too.

The thing i cant understand is that I hear all this gloom on the news but in reality I don’t know anyone who is personally affected (yet) and don’t see any slow down in spending in business I’m involved in or when I go shopping, having said that everyday I wake up thinking this is the day it will hit!

Nigel, you must live in a different country then,
most of my customers feel they are affected by the current situation.
that is the ones that arnt burying their heads in the sand,
the situation is real, did you not notice all the firms closing and cutting back? not to mention the massive rise in house repossession, over the last few months.
Old cliche I know, but maybe you need to wake up and smell the coffee?

We are in a recession, and its not going away in the near future,
so whether or not you have been effected yet, you do need to try and protect yourself the best you can.

Peter

[Shane Drew]

quote Nigel Hindley:

MacDonalds have apparently taken on 4000 new staff in the UK which does seem an awful lot but also Dominoes Pizza are doing well too.

The thing i cant understand is that I hear all this gloom on the news but in reality I don’t know anyone who is personally affected (yet) and don’t see any slow down in spending in business I’m involved in or when I go shopping, having said that everyday I wake up thinking this is the day it will hit!

The only clients I have that are affected are those that rely on mining and overseas tourism.

60% of australias tax revenue is generated by small business, and whilst I agree with Peter about the hard times, it will be the positive attitudes of the small businessman that pull most countries through recession.

The company my wife works for has laid off 1/3 of their 350 member workforce. It is a knee jerk reaction in many ways because our PM here keeps saying negative things with a negative spin. I don’t say he should lie, but he needs to give the appearance he knows what he is doing at least… even though the whole country knows he is a dill.

Thing is, the big end of town look to the leader of the country for confidence.

Her boss is only reacting to the negativity from the country leader. The problem is that our politicians are looking to protect their votes, so they tell us that we are heading for a worse scenario that we probably are, and it becomes self fulfilling.

When this Government took office in 07 Australia was $52bil in the black – arguably the best economy in the world.

Our 4 biggest banks are the most profitable in the world also, and still are. They had very little exposure to the sub prime problem of the US or other parts of the world. We are insulated from that very well down under.

Through some really stupid decisions which the present government admitted ‘might not work’ is resulting in us staring down the barrel of a $200bil debt. No wonder big business has lost confidence here. It has little to do, by comparison, with the negativity overseas. Of course we have the multi national employers here that are laying off staff, but that is a given. Our vehicle manufacturers – GM & Ford – are still profitable here, unlike their counterparts overseas.

Now we have huge job losses because people are reacting to a projected problem, and again, it becomes self fulfilling.

We’ve had a 10 year mining boom here in Qld, and the state government here have squandered the tax revenue so badly that now the mining boom has stopped, our state has no money in reserve, and we are borrowing money from overseas, taking the state bil’s in debt.

I’m not political, I don’t vote, but as a reasonably successful business man, I’d not employ any of these people to handle my finances.

Our PM is a career politician. He’s never had a ‘real job’ in his life. His wife makes more than him, and that was by using the previous governments incentives to find employment for the unemployed. It resulted in the lowest unemployment in years.

Now, with the new debts incurred by our governments, our debts will result in higher taxes, and small business will be the cash cow in the frame.

No wonder there is so much negativity.

After writing this I’m not feeling to happy myself now 🙂

Sorry for the rant 😳

[John Childs]

quote Nigel Hindley:

MacDonalds have apparently taken on 4000 new staff in the UK

That’s ok then Nigel. We can all flip burgers for the Yanks. But if we’re all on that side of the counter, who’s going to be on the other side buying them?

With due respect to our American cousins who, in many ways, I admire greatly, we need more than their minimum wage jobs to get us out of this mess.

[Karl Williams]

I keep looking at my 2 boys and wonder what the future holds for them.
We tell them to concentrate at school and do well so they can get a good job when they leave school. Sad thing is we feel like we’re lying to them.

[Shane Drew]

quote Karl Williams:

I keep looking at my 2 boys and wonder what the future holds for them.
We tell them to concentrate at school and do well so they can get a good job when they leave school. Sad thing is we feel like we’re lying to them.

Karl, your kids have parents that love them dearly…. they are more fortunate than most.

Best thing you can do is be a good example to them mate. They’ll follow your lead.

Of course an education is one thing…. who knows what their future holds, but if they are honest, polite, well mannered, hard working, and understand the value of money, they will be an attractive proposition to any employer when they get to looking for a job.

I use myself as an example. I left school at 15, no HSC or school certificate. Even today, I have nothing to show for my early education.

My parents taught us both (my sister and I) to be honest, well mannered and work hard. My dads favorite phrase was ‘you’ll appreciate all the hard work when you are older’. Didn’t believe it at the time…. but I do now…..

I did some pretty crappy jobs in my early years after school but my sister and I have never been unemployed longer than a week. I lost my job because the company I worked for closed down in the recession we had in the 80’s.

I was married about 7 days I think. I got a job before the week was out, even in that recession. I did anything though, not like today when people only want a ‘good’ job.

Now, although I’m an opinionated bloke (get that from my dad) both my sister and I are doing OK. My sister worked her way up in the company she works for, starting as a payroll clerk, and 10 years later she is 3 IC for a $60mil per year company.

She didn’t get her HSC either. She worked hard sure, but you can’t say its totally dependent on our education. Not that I’m saying they shouldn’t work hard at school, but it is as much about life skills these days to getting a good job, as it is about high grades at school.

My wife and I constantly get complimented on our children’s behavior when in public, which makes me immensely proud. My son was awarded citizen of the year on 07.

Hang in there with the kids mate. Book knowledge is one thing, but lifes examples are the best form of teacher. No better teacher than mum or dad.

[John Childs]

quote Karl Williams:

I keep looking at my 2 boys and wonder what the future holds for them..

I’ve told my kids to learn Chinese, and then open an English takeaway in Peking. 😀

[Philip Houston]

I’m finding the big developers are getting rid of their tradesmen, who have no other companies to work for.
So they decide to start self employment, get a small van & come to me for the graphics.

This seems to be the trend at the present time.
What jobs are you all busy with at present?

When the tide turns, and the wave of good fortune appears, what will you be selling & to whom?

Philip
‘Get Noticed’ Signs
N.Ireland

[Peter Normington]

quote Philip Houston:

I’m finding the big developers are getting rid of their tradesmen, who have no other companies to work for.
So they decide to start self employment, get a small van & come to me for the graphics.

This seems to be the trend at the present time.
What jobs are you all busy with at present?

When the tide turns, and the wave of good fortune appears, what will you be selling & to whom?

Philip
‘Get Noticed’ Signs
N.Ireland

That is a bit of a parradox then,
if the big boys cant find work for a tradesman, where else will they find it?
Good luck to them and you, at least the cash is changing hands.

We had the same a few years ago when GM closed the Vauxhall plant in Luton.
Many people started their own small business with their redundancy,
unfortunately only a few survived, they did not have the wherewithall to sustain a business, its not as easy as they think, after being employed for most of their lives, then having to face competition, and be responsible for their own income.

There will be a lot of flash in the pan opportunities, for signs, I agree, but long term dont expect many of them to be return customers.
Once things have flattened out, you will still be looking for a steady income.

I have been self employed for 20 years or so, and believe me, times have never been as bad,
I am lucky to be in a position that I can weather a storm, but not indefinitely, so grab all the work you can, and make sure you put a bit aside for next year.

Peter

When va

[Nigel Hindley]

quote Peter Normington:

quote Nigel Hindley:

MacDonalds have apparently taken on 4000 new staff in the UK which does seem an awful lot but also Dominoes Pizza are doing well too.

The thing i cant understand is that I hear all this gloom on the news but in reality I don’t know anyone who is personally affected (yet) and don’t see any slow down in spending in business I’m involved in or when I go shopping, having said that everyday I wake up thinking this is the day it will hit!

Nigel, you must live in a different country then,
most of my customers feel they are affected by the current situation.
that is the ones that arnt burying their heads in the sand,
the situation is real, did you not notice all the firms closing and cutting back? not to mention the massive rise in house repossession, over the last few months.
Old cliche I know, but maybe you need to wake up and smell the coffee?

We are in a recession, and its not going away in the near future,
so whether or not you have been effected yet, you do need to try and protect yourself the best you can.

Peter

Peter firstly yes i do live in a different country from you – I live in Scotland.
Secondly you are so contrary – my post was actually in addition to yours saying how many folk you know that are doing well and you shoot me down when i say the same. as you!.

I personally do not know anyone that has been laid off, had a house repossessed etc I’m not saying it isn’t happening but I ain’t seeing it and what I was saying was that there are folk and business benefiting from the recession.

My personal experience which is all I can say for sure is November was our busiest month ever. I mind Rob saying in a post that December was his busiest month ever though I do hear from our suppliers that er are a load of people very very quiet. We have gone quieter in February and we would never take anything for granted.

I also have a luxury apt business and this year we are seeing record bookings and we have bought more apartments and have put our prices up and the bookings just keep coming mainly from Brits, who seem to have an endless supply of money. This could be for a number of factors – too expensive to go abroad etc also though Shane – we have more Australians booking this year too!

My point about MacDonald John wasn’t anything about going to work for them but that there are business’s doing well folk scaling down and not eating in restaurants but buying burgers and pizzas.

Anyway like i said I take nothing for granted and wake up every day thinking this could be the day it hits.

[Nigel Hindley]

quote John Childs:

quote Karl Williams:

I keep looking at my 2 boys and wonder what the future holds for them..

I’ve told my kids to learn Chinese, and then open an English takeaway in Peking. 😀

……..ah of course the minimum wage in Peking will be so much higher than that of burger flippers in the UK 😀

[John Childs]

quote Nigel Hindley:

quote John Childs:

quote Karl Williams:

I keep looking at my 2 boys and wonder what the future holds for them..

I’ve told my kids to learn Chinese, and then open an English takeaway in Peking. 😀

……..ah of course the minimum wage in Peking will be so much higher than that of burger flippers in the UK 😀

The idea is that they own it, not work in it. 😀

[Nigel Hindley]

quote John Childs:

quote Nigel Hindley:

quote John Childs:

quote Karl Williams:

I keep looking at my 2 boys and wonder what the future holds for them..

I’ve told my kids to learn Chinese, and then open an English takeaway in Peking. 😀

……..ah of course the minimum wage in Peking will be so much higher than that of burger flippers in the UK 😀

The idea is that they own it, not work in it. 😀

John, I’m sure it would be easier for your kids to get into Eton, a short career in politics, then become prime minister and change the economy of this country from within than to turn one of the last bastions of Communism, capitalist just in order open a fish and chip shop – but I do admire your confidence in your kids abilities! 😀 😀 😀

[John Childs]

quote Nigel Hindley:

I’m sure it would be easier for your kids to get into Eton

Good plan Nigel but, at twenty seven and thirty, I think they might be a bit old for Eton. And one of them is a girl. Sorry, a young lady. 😛

The only way open to them now is the trade union or local government route into Westminster, but they both know I’d disown and disinherit them if they even think about that. (no smiley)

[Nigel Hindley]

……but John you don’t look old enough to have kids that age? 😀

[John Childs]

quote Nigel Hindley:

……but John you don’t look old enough to have kids that age? 😀

Started young. *rofl*

[Robert Lambie]

I have heard a couple of times now that Active Signs have closed their doors… Surely not, i thought… but from what i hear it is looking like they have.
Would be interested to hear from anyone else that can clarify this as i would hate to be the one to start a rumour. 😕

when i am out on signing tours around the UK, Active Signs has to be the company i see the most of on my travels, then maybe Hawes Signs…
I actually drove by Actives signs place in Kent last year…
Doesn’t seem that long that i was reading in Sign Directions magazine how Active Signs were expanding their already huge premises…

did a screen grab of their premises. from what i can tell everything in the picture that i have not blurred out on the left belonged to Active Signs.
gives you an idea of the size of them, as well as the job losses if this is definitely true.

Active Signs were also ongoing sponsors of the sign industry awards.

.

[Nigel Hindley]

I saw pictures of 2 box trailers at at an auction of bankrupt stock and equipment in Glasgow with the outline of the name Merson signs where vinyl had been? are they not quite a large company too?

Obviously the trailers could well have been sold on to another company and not necessarily theirs at present.

[Robert Lambie]

Nah, I think Merson are fine mate. I know they made a good few redundancies like many sign firms are at the moment, but i think Merson Signs are still doing OK.

i hope anyway… I hate seeing Large firms within our industry go bust. you kinda grow up in the trade looking up to these sized firms. Although none of us are directly involved its still a Kinda crappy feeling you get when you hear it. Same when i heard Oldham Signs going, then there was Pearce Signs… Now looks like Active Signs maybe following… 😕

[Shane Drew]

we’ve had a few big companies go bust here last year….. its not unheard off, because some get settled in big customers work and they get complacent.

That big customer only has to hic up and they are in trouble. With the present situation, big corporates are looking to reduce expenditure but maintain the appearance they are doing well. Often the sign co is the first to be told to sharpen their pencils.

Then, if the sign co has got too many eggs in one basket, they go under when the client switches to a better deal.

Seen it happen heaps. We got caught many years ago too…. learned a valuable lesson. Our business turned over thousands of dollars a month with one client…..about 50% of our income from the one client… out of the blue they were bought out and we lost the contract overnight. We sacked 8 staff immediately and were within days of going under.

Problem was we got lazy expecting that we would always have their work.

Now, no one client is more than 15-20% of my yearly income. Never want to be there again….

[John Childs]

I’ve seen it happen too Shane. Classic business mistake. Although it is possible to take on big jobs without putting the long term viability of your business at risk.

Last year we won a nice contract for nine hundred vans. There was quite a bit of work in each one and there was no way we could have handled that from our own resources. The only way I was prepared to countenance it was if we could do it with outside labour and facilities, whilst my full time employees stayed and concentrated on our regular work.

Fair enough we did some of it ourselves with spare capacity, but the vast majority of the work was done with external labour. The job had it’s stressful moments but, thanks to Peter, Matt, Gary, Darren, Nikki, Sheila, and a couple of others, we got it done.

The point is that, now that that job is finished, we still have our regular customers work coming in. It would have been business suicide to upset our regulars for that one off and consequently we will NEVER take on a job if it is likely to affect the standard of service that we can give to them. I’m not going to jeopardise the business of a twenty year customer for the sake of a quick flash in the pan now.

[Shane Drew]

I outsource too John. Jason and Pauly from the boards are my first port of call, but I’ve got many others that I can use if push comes to shove.

As far as my clients go, I’m doing the job, but its outsourced by reputable and reliable shops that also appreciate my business.

Coincidentally, a lot of shops outsource to me too…. one big merry-go-round really 😛 based purely on cooperation and understanding….

[Luke s Bremner]

I called into a supplier this week to get some vinyl for the printer.

He was telling me B&P light brigades finances are not looking good.

I dont know if it would be a bad thing to see them go?

[Stepen Wood]

quote :

He was telling me B&P light brigades finances are not looking good.

I dont know if it would be a bad thing to see them go?

Thats a bit harsh mate. That’s peoples jobs your talking about. They may not be the best company to deal with, but a lot of the staff there are genuine.

[Luke s Bremner]

I use to work for one of the biggest graphics companies in Europe. It was full of really talented people and I really enjoyed my time working there. But the way the company was being run was not right, that is why I left and went out on my own. Now alot of clients have left this company because prices had risen and service got very poor. I can relate this to b&p but with going even lower to under cutting the industry it trades in. Jobs might be lost but the industry might pick up with this loss. I know if b&p went under my turn over would improve.

[Peter Normington]

quote Luke s Bremner:

I use to work for one of the biggest graphics companies in Europe. It was full of really talented people and I really enjoyed my time working there. But the way the company was being run was not right, that is why I left and went out on my own. Now alot of clients have left this company because prices had risen and service got very poor. I can relate this to b&p but with going even lower to under cutting the industry it trades in. Jobs might be lost but the industry might pick up with this loss. I know if b&p went under my turn over would improve.

Luke with all due respect, how would you expect to gain, if B&P went under? why would you gain their clients, for instance?
Just curios as to your theory?

Peter

[Luke s Bremner]

Because one of my clients, not in the sign trade use them to supply signs also I quote jobs that when priced against there prices I cant come close because I dont import media,ink and machines in volumes.

[Peter Normington]

quote Luke s Bremner:

Because one of my clients, not in the sign trade use them to supply signs also I quote jobs that when priced against there prices I cant come close because I dont import media,ink and machines in volumes.

Luke.
if B&P go under there are lots of other firms that supply at similar prices, and even if there weren’t, the "ex staff " would probably start up a new company with a similar pricing structure.
so unless you can come close on price, then you are out of the market anyway.
Sorry if I sound blunt, but you said you had left a company, because their prices were rising, and now you are complaining that B&P are selling cheap? but that’s the way of the world. If one of my suppliers go bust I will look to the next one on price for the equivalent product, not the one that is twice the price, if you see what I mean

Peter

[Shane Drew]

quote Luke s Bremner:

I called into a supplier this week to get some vinyl for the printer.

He was telling me B&P light brigades finances are not looking good.

I dont know if it would be a bad thing to see them go?

With all due respect, that is a pretty common ploy for an opposition in tough times. If enough people believe it, it has a nasty effect of coming true.

I speak from personal experience.

Many years ago when we had a lot of staff, our most senior employee hit us up for a massive pay rise. We rejected it. Unknown to us, he then started telling clients that he was worried about our financial liability. He stayed with us for 3 months, all the time sowing seeds of doubt in our clients minds.

Then, he gave us an ultimatum…. more money or he’d leave.

We said he’d have to leave as we couldn’t afford to pay him such a huge wage rise.

He then went to our biggest customers and told them (being our most senior employee he was well known by all our clients) he left because he suspected we were close to bankruptcy, and suggested to our clients if they wanted continuity, they should perhaps change.

We lost 30% of our business in a month. It wasn’t true initially, but losing so much work so quickly it almost came true.

More recently, when we sold our original business, and moved away to start a smaller sign shop on my own, my opposition started telly my original clients that I’d gone bankrupt to give me a bad name.

So, I’m a bit more sympathetic to businesses that their opposition plant the seed of ‘befalling hard times’.

I don’t know ‘B&P’ obviously, but for an opposition company to spread ‘rumours’ like that is unethical in my view.

Put yourself in their shoes. If one of your competitors started the same thing against you, without providing factual support, how would you feel?

Sorry for the long winded reply, but it does annoy me when sales reps resort to this sort of thing, without any proof.

Shane

[Luke s Bremner]

quote :

if B&P go under there are lots of other firms that supply at similar prices, and even if there weren’t, the “ex staff ” would probably start up a new company with a similar pricing structure.
so unless you can come close on price, then you are out of the market anyway.
Sorry if I sound blunt, but you said you had left a company, because their prices were rising, and now you are complaining that B&P are selling cheap?

Peter

Thanks for your reply peter,

I understand what your saying. I dont mind selling jobs cheap to a point, but were do you stop? if this is the way of the future then it will effectivley sell out the industry. I wouldnt want to see sign industry go the way of litho print, you will end up with big print houses selling dirrect to media print for prices that no sign shop in england could match. Mind you the company I use to work for was sold to a print house that trades all over europe and america but right now they are having big problems before the recesion more to do with like I said pricing but also service. It became a comon thing to revisit a job 3-4-5 times before it was completed corectly, that cost the company more work then the higher prices.

The way I see it b&p is selling out the industry and they need to work out if they want to supply or sell end product direct to the customer. From there view they might see if that there is not going to be a place for a supplier in the future so they are making a move over to compet with the big print houses of the future.

What my supplier told me might just be abit of word of mouth but some one else out there might now if it is true or not.

This might be the way of the future, I started out with a paintbrush and have had to move with the times, this might be the next step.

[David Lowery]

Just had an email from printmax which reads:

You may have recently heard that B&P Lightbrigade Group Ltd have unfortunately become another casualty to the current Global Crisis and have been forced into administration with immediate effect.

Although printMAX haven’t sold Uniform machines or been associated with B&P Lightbrigade Group Ltd for sometime, however, we do have years of experience in supplying and supporting Uniform products and we will endeavour to assist all customers to enable your machines to keep running. We have secured access to the original Uniform Ink direct from the manufacturer. AGFA ink for the Anapurna’s will be in stock shortly.

Our objective is to minimise the impact this will have on your business, and keep you printing. If you have any questions please give us a call and we will provide as much assistance as we can.

Looks like that’s it for B&P 🙁

[Graeme Harrold]

B&P also have 2 CCJ’s listed against the company in the past 2 days.

[David Rowland]

yes i read the PrintMax message, I think this is a wise move to send out such an email, we do need to reasure ourselves about our machinery purchases.

So how are the likes of Roland, Hybrid and other distributors/manufacturers doing?

[Graeme Harrold]

Probably take a leaf out of the car manufacturers market. I think anyone higher in the supply chain of fixed asset products are going to struggle as most companies are holding back on large machinery purchases. The suppliers of consumables will still have a market though reduced. I think suppliers will be giving machines away soon on crazy low deals just to shift stock, and recouping the cost in materials and service contracts.

Basic laws of supply and demand………….

[Ian Johnston]

http://www.creditman.biz/uk/members/new … ation=News

Active Signs Limited in Administration

Mar 3 2009
Active Signs Limited, the Kent based sign design, manufacture and installation company, entered into administration on 26th February 2009 with the appointment of joint administrators, Mark Newman and Vince Green, directors at Vantis Business Recovery Services (BRS), a division of Vantis, the UK accounting, tax and business advisory group.

Limited trading continues, although 70 redundancies have regrettably been made.

Commenting on the administration, Mark Newman said: “The business was sadly forced into administration due primarily to a lack of working capital. We are working closely with the management team to assess the opportunities to rescue all parts of the business.”

[Phill Fenton]

I phoned a supplier today to place an order for a fairly large illuminated signbox. Although I have a credit account with this company (with a credit limit of £3000) I could sense their reluctance to accept my order for a bespoke signcase due to the fact I am not a regular purchaser from them. I would have happily paid up front by credit card if they had insisted (they didn’t) but suspect that this is a sure indication of the current economic climate because companies are failing left right and centre and consequently (quite rightly) suppliers are becoming increasingly concerned about fullfilling orders on a credit account basis 😕

[Luke s Bremner]

I just had a supplier call me today selling polynumeric matt white 3yr digital vinyl 1370wide for £40 and 1500wide for £45. I dont really need any more right now but I bought 3 rolls because its so cheap.

I have had this alot latly but most of the time they are selling coloured vinyls that you will use once every 3 years.

[Peter Normington]

quote Luke s Bremner:

I just had a supplier call me today selling polynumeric matt white 3yr digital vinyl 1370wide for £40 and 1500wide for £45. I dont really need any more right now but I bought 3 rolls because its so cheap.

I have had this alot latly but most of the time they are selling coloured vinyls that you will use once every 3 years.

well mate that is really false economy,

I think all the major suppliers are feeling the pinch, as are a lot of small business, product is being offered at discount prices, so in reality they are having a hard time, if your sales have also gone down, then one way forward is to pass on the reduced price to your customers, principals are fine. but dont pay the rent. having stock you dont need is not a saving, you should only buy materials that you can sell, and pass on the savings to gain more work

Peter

[Luke s Bremner]

Thats why I bought these rolls for the printer and not rolls of bright pink metalic red.

I know what you mean peter.

[John Childs]

"Lack of working capital" and "cash flow problems" are phrases we are hearing all the time now, but things like that are not the root cause of difficulties. They both stem from a basic lack of provision for bad times.

Fair enough, it might different with newer firms but, for old established ones, I can’t help but think that their woes are all of their own making because they have had time to build up a reserve, a buffer for the bad times, and didn’t.

And I don’t think that’s hindsight. This recession was predictable and, for those a little older, is only history repeating itself, the normal cycle asserting itself. Certainly this is a bad one, but these companies are failing right at the beginning, rather than at the end, or even in the middle.

So, I think it is all bad management. They have wasted the profits from ten good years so that they were unable to survive even one bad year.

[Shane Drew]

I think a lot of these companies have been traveling close to the wind for some time in truth. We have them here too. I’ve been there too many years ago

When I was employing staff I tried to keep everyone on, because I put myself in their shoes…. wife, kids, mortgage…. and I suffered cash flow problems as a result. I took a pay cut so the staff could keep their income.

I realized some time later that none of the staff appreciated my sacrifices I made at the time, and when I eventually had to cull some staff, I was the biggest mongrel that lived. Even today, some former employees of 10 years ago will not talk to me.

Realistically, I should have culled staff well before I got to that situation.

Trouble is today, some businesses get too cumbersome, or grow too fast. The good times will see even a poorly managed business survive, but as soon as hard times start to bite, that is when the problems surface.

I wish I knew then what I know now, and things would have been a lot different I’m sure.

[John Thomson]

quote Peter Normington:

well mate that is really false economy,

having stock you dont need is not a saving, you should only buy materials that you can sell, and pass on the savings to gain more work

Peter

Have to disagree to a point with that thinking Peter……as long as you have spare capital I can’t see a better place to put it than into discounted stock ( that you KNOW you will sell…..I don’t mean obscure stuff)…….with Bank of England interest rates likely to drop again ( though not the borrowing rate) where else would you put spare available money? It is worthless sitting in a bank account earning nothing.

I suggest at times like these people who have available cash can increase their profitability ( and therefore will be more likely to survive!) than those who do not simply by buying wisly.
I would rather keep the extra profit than pass it all onto the customer.

Just my thoughts.

John

[John Childs]

Funnily enough, I agree with you John.

In normal times I would argue that, no matter how low the price, if you didn’t need it, it would be too expensive.

But these aren’t normal times and money in the bank is worthless (in terms of the income it will bring you) so, if you have SPARE cash that you are CERTAIN that you won’t need for more important expenses, it is no problem to buy goods that you KNOW you will sell.

[Phill Fenton]

So they’re now talking about "quantitative easing" – isn’t that just a posh term for devaluing the pound 😕

[Steve McAdie]

I agree with John as well, I’ve just bought a years ink supply as it was on offer, to good an oppurtunity to miss.

Steve