ADVICE ON VEHICLE WRAPPING?

[Robert Lambie]

have you ever wrapped a vehicle or tried any type of wrap material mate?

[Karl Williams]

Ive only ever wrapped macfleet onto cars.Not printed. Tried Arlon from A.d.s in Nottiingham. Ended up slitting wrists!

[Robert Lambie]

macfleet is a difficult wrap material to use as it is very temperamental. that said, it has to be one of the best i have used as far as "staying in recessed areas is concerned" once its on, its on! it also stretches very well before the colour starts to whiten.

KPMF is a good wrap material but i have heard of a big London taxi firm having major issues with it some months back now. so much so they pulled the plug on it… i am not sure the full details but the firm switched vinyl supplier which i found strange as this vinyl in particular was created purposely for changing the colours of taxis in Germany or Belgium…
i personally found it easy to work with and remove when needed. even fitting outside wasn’t a big deal… however, solid colours whiten quick when stretched and if i was fitting a vehicle with deep recesses i would go for another brand of wrap, but not KPMF as i found it tends to pull out of any sharp recesses.

the wrap you mention i have not heard of, sorry…

will you be printing onto your wrap or is it for solid colour work only?

[autosign]

Have you tried any of the air release wrap films such as Averys Rob?

[Ewan Roberts]

Avery easy apply is ok but don’t use it on a vehicle with deep recesses such as Merc Sprinter. I have had to rewrap a new shape transit because it popped out of the channels and that is not that bad a van to wrap, and i’ve done over 400 various vans and cars so it wasn’t a fitting issue.
Cheers
Ewan.

[Martin Pearson]

If you haven’t wrapped a vehicle before and you haven’t had any training then I would be very careful, you could end up learning a very expensive lesson, it is really a two man job as you are best with someone holding and pulling the vinyl gentley the way it needs to go and the other applying the heat and actuallyfitting. I would start by buying a couple of metres of different brands of vinyl and then practicing on smaller different shaped objects to get a feel for how to apply it and its limitations.
I use to wrap all sorts of things around the office and it can also lead to other sales as well as promoting the actual vehicle wrap.

[Robert Lambie]

autosign:
i haven’t used Avery ezy-apply but that’s really thru choice mate…

1, i think it is over priced.
2, i think if your going to be successful at wrapping you are better learning the hard way. what i mean is, its like fitting vinyl wet, those who use the wet method of application normally get caught up in it and seldom venture onto applying 100% dry. vehicle wrapping must be applied dry for true media performance.
3, if caught up in this bubble of ezy-apply application vinyl you will struggle to compete in this growing market because a, the fast professionals will use the lower costing wrap vinyls as they do not need the assistance of the higher priced ezy-app vinyls, b, the cowboys that dabble in this will use any old crap anyway. 😕

4, ill be honest… i used control-tac a few years back on hundreds of part wraps. this was the first bubble free vinyl on the go introduced by 3M.
i liked the feel of the vinyl but i didn’t find it any different.
I have always had my doubt about these types of vinyls… but maybe that’s just me..

Some time later 3M pulled or stopped promoting the control-tac as this special new type of easy application vinyl, only for it to be resurfaced by Avery as the Ezy-Apply. 3M took them to court over it and won… (only recently) don’t ask me how or why, i haven’t a clue… but Avery still offer it, now do mactac and oracal have just launched their version and i am sure there is another. maybe they have paid license to use the adhesive formula from 3M or whatever… i don’t know…
one good thing that has probably come out of it is, with all the major manufacturers now offering it i recon Avery will have to come down in price to compete? anyway… this is just my thoughts, don’t take them as gospel :lol1: :lol1:
All this said, avery is a damn good vinyl regardless… i am only talking about the price of ezy-apply and obviously the adhesive make up.

as martin has said, try sample of all the types of wrap you cant get hold of. practice like hell… all vinyls have different charactoristics. finding the one that best suits you is the key, then finding and understanding its limitations!

p.s.
hey martin, good to see you back on the boards mate. 😛 your the second long term member in a couple of weeks to resurface on the site mate… 😉

[John Childs]

Yeah, good to see you Martin. Hope you are well.

Ezee Apply, well, I don’t know. Not enough experience in wrapping.

What I do know is that labour is the most expensive item in our work and if Ezee apply saves time then the sums have to be done and it’s use has to be considered.

[Robert Lambie]

John, i couldnt agree more with regards to savings on labour etc but…
the last i heard, "was a while ago now" a member was struggling to buy this vinyl cheaper than about £18 a metre. i pay less than half that for the few different wraps i use, and you still have the cost of print and laminating the vinyl.

[Karl Williams]

Anyone tried the Arlon film? I spoke to kpmf a few days ago, and they are offering a film @ £5 a metre! Caution?

Karl.

[Paul Hodges]

Karl,

The Arlon vinyl you are referring to I think, is a cast vinyl, not a wrap vinyl.
I used to use it a lot for our Edge, but it’s no good for anything else over and above your ordinary self adhesive vinyl.

[Martin Pearson]

Karl, as I said above get some samples from the various suppliers, I am assuming you are going to be printing this yourself as you seem to be looking at printable films.
What sort of printer are you running as this may make a difference to what vinyl you end up buying. As I am sure you know the results you can achieve vary depending on what printer and what vinyl you use. My advice would be to get some samples, print them and apply them. That way it will give you an idea of which vinyls work best with your printer and which vinyls you have the least problems applying. Even if you are an experienced vinyl fitter this is a completly different area and something you should take your time over and not rush into.

Robert & John, thanks for the welcome back, I’m not really working at the moment but I have missed the boards and felt I might be able to contribute something so here I am.

[Russ]

Hi guy’s

I used Arlon just the other week

DPF 6000 conformable cast film with crystal cast laminate 3220

it went ok but i’m no expert in this field

will post pic

Regards Russ

[autosign]

We did a half wrap of a vivaro a while back using the Avery stuff and it certainly was very ‘EZ’ to apply. Almost too easy, especially when compared with the MacTac Imagin we’d used a week before which was very hard to work with, bubbles left crater marks, pulling back the vinyl to re-squeegee left marks etc. and we were lucky to get away with not having to reprint a big section when it got stuck to itself.

I’d like to know what some of the full time wrappers consider to be the best all round vinyl and also what is the going rate for wrap fitting? I’m wondering if it would be better to let the experts do any wrap jobs we get.

[Robert Lambie]

quote autosign:

I’d like to know what some of the full time wrappers consider to be the best all round vinyl.

i am not a full time wrapper, so to speak mate… but i have seen some full time wrappers that are crap, as well as truly talented wrappers. those who are good at wrapping is one thing, those who deem themselves as good is another…
as has been said, everyone has their own vinyl preference…
as far as i am concerned, dry application has a technique…. once "mastered" by "anyone" they are on their road to become a good wrapper… because the lay down technique, followed by experience at negotiating vehicle contours is the trick!
for me. adhesive channels in vinyl maybe help expel some air… but you still have to avoid over stretching, fading of print, creases, heat prep etc
if you already have the lay down technique mastered, clever channels in the adhesive are irrelevant and an unnecessary expence.

marks on the vinyl can be many things if no app tape has been applied. normally the result of dirty vinyl, damaged or dust trapped on your squeegee…

[George Kern]

We use 3M Controltac Plus Graphic Film IJ180-10, and Avery MPI1005-EZ for all of our vehicle wraps. Depending on the difficulty of the wrap and the term it will be used for is the deciding factor for the material. 3M is more costly then the Avery but when it comes down to difficult vehicle contours its worth spending the extra money. Remember, you get what you pay for.

[Karl Williams]

Hi Guys,
Sorry I’ve not replied, Laptop went down and lost connection!
I have received samples from KPMF and am looking forward to testing over chrimbo! They have also sent some printed and laminated sheets through. Tried spandex and couldn’t get any samples from them at all!

[Phil Halling]

The thing to remember with wrapping is that it has to be a combination of the right vinyl and the right vehicle ie: kpmf on a beetle fine, on a sprinter no no!, also if your wrapping a beetle/taxi with avery mpi 1005 your really getting into overkill – especially with the price.

A good wrapper will be able to wrap any vehicle with any film – but that doesnt guarantee it will still be down in the recesses after a week or so.

[Andrew Boyle]

Hi Phil,

what do you think about the promotional flyer from Metamark showing vehicles wrapped in printed MD5?

Have you ever used MD5 to wrap a vehicle?

Cheers

Andrew

[Peter Normington]

quote Phil Halling:

a good wrapper will be able to wrap any vehicle with any film – but that doesnt guarantee it will still be down in the recesses after a week or so.

I would think they may have an issue with Chrome effect stuff, etch vinyl, or cheapo calendered, 😉

I have seen your work Phil, and know where you are coming from, but a good workman, is only as good as his tools/materials

Peter

[Lee Attewell]

I use Avery EZ apply for straight vehicles and Arlon for vehicles that have deep recesses. As far as I know…Over here (Aus) Arlon will guarantee no failure in deep recesses for their top pf the line cast films.

We always overlaminate the vinyl because frankly it makes it easier to apply 😀
Having said this…Have you done a course on Wrapping at all?

**Edit…It is a real biartch to wrap a vehicle…Do it at your own peril mate.

[Stepen Wood]

Your best bet is to order samples off all your suppliers and do the same test with them.

We tried about four different digital vinyl samples and laminated them with specified laminate. The prints were cured for three days

We then tested them on the side of our Renault master, with the deep recesses. They all seem to work. We decided to go with Grafiwrap because of price.

My employees liked the EZ apply, I am not so sure. I feel with a product like EZ apply or equivalent is a bit like cheating, I want them to improve the skills with each Job they do and feel they are unlikely to learn more using this product.

It is a learning curve. Our first van we wrapped was not very good at all. We have now completed our sixth van and are very pleased with it. I now have more confidence in my employees, I also believe it has helped their general vinyl work.

[Karl Williams]

The Arlon is a Biartch as you put it! From what the others say on here I think I’ll reconsider the KPMF!

[Robert Lambie]

Hi Karl
I’m a bit confused now… (not hard I know)

Your initial post says:
I want to start vehicle wrapping. can anyone out there give advice on what materials are best

After I asked if you had ever tried any…

You replied:
Macfleet onto cars… so you have wrapped a few cars?

You tried Arlon but hated it!

You then ask has anyone used Arlon, because KPMF is doing a good offer just now…

But end in Arlon is a bitch and will go with KPMF due to samples?

Sorry for all my questions, I was about to reply to this thread but when I re-read it I got confused from each of your replies.

Are you a wrapper?
What amount of experience have you got… i.e what have you wrapped?
do you work alone?

Why did you not like Arlon?
Why did you not like Mactac?

What type vehicle/s do you plan using the wrap on. If you have one in mind that is?
Are you flood coating or printing onto it?

Thank you in advance.

[Karl Williams]

I have only wrapped cars in Macfleet. Years ago and not printed!
I tried the Arlon and found it to be not the easiest material to use.
I now have received some samples from KPMF of which I was going to tryout on my own car. After reading some pointers from the others from their experience it does not appear that this would be the best way forward on some vehicles.

The macfleet is a nice vinyl to use. The Arlon was not the easiest to use, and yes, using this for the first time is not the easiest to pick for a first attempt for wrapping.

There are 4 of us here, and as virgins to wrapping struggled. But as someone else pointed out wrapping for the first time is not an easy task when using digital media.
I am printing using a Rocky 38. Ultra Eco solvent inks!

[Russ]

As far as I am aware Arlon is MD7 (Seven ) The van I posted last week was the first time I have used it and as I said I am no expert, I have only done a few vehicles with big graphics. I applied all the graphics cold and used no heat whatsoever even in all the recesses, only after each moulded app did I apply any heat. I have to say that the main problems I had is with my own inexperience in wrapping.

Peter I will get back to you as to where I have been

Russ

[Ewan Roberts]

quote :

what do you think about the promotional flyer from Metamark showing vehicles wrapped in printed MD5?
Have you ever used MD5 to wrap a vehicle?

Have wrapped loads taxis with printed MD5 unlaminated and laminated. The solvent ink on the vinyl really softens it up and works well into the contours. Some taxis that i wrapped two years ago still look good. The only thing to watch out for is if you have a heavy ink coverage and you need to do a lot of stretching there can be a bit of colour fade. Not really confident that wrapping a van with deep recesses would work though. Only van i have wrapped with MD5 is a VW Caddy.

Merry Xmas

Ewan 😀 😀

[simon gregory]

Hi Guys,
Very interesting read about this,
We have wrapped 4 or 5 cars from complete wraps to 50% ones and are getting OK at it, the only downside is the time it takes, its a pretty painful experience but our quotes have been getting ‘more suited’ to the timescale and the quality is getting pretty good too,

I have also heard of a wrapping company in London (who come up top on google) someone i know got them to wrap one of his clients vans for dirt cheap, the quality was terrible and i wouldn’t dream of letting them and what looked like carpet knifes near any van,

I always use KPMF and have no major issues with it, but to be honest haven’t had to do any real tricky vans i.e sprinters etc,

I do use a tiny mist of water (i mean light mist) it just makes it easier to pull up without stretching the print, but we only put the mist on flat panels and none within a couple of inches of any recess, but looking at this i may just give it a go without any juice.

also i am going to completely wrap my trafic in a couple of weeks (have been saying that for a while now)
😉

i was going to laminate KPMF and go with that but now ive been reading up would anyone recommend this arlon as the right tool for the job?

cheers guys

[Robert Lambie]

no disrespect meant here Simon…
I appreciate you saying a mist of water and stopping a few inches from the edges of a panel. but the problem occurs when trying to expel the water from beneath the vinyl. it has no option but to run down the panels and into any recesses it can find. once in there it is impossible to get it out properly. here is where major issues occur because the longer the water takes to dry out the more the vinyl will react to the temperatures… if warm it will shrink back pulling from the recess, as night falls the cold makes the vinyl go brittle. few weeks down the line some kid pokes the vinyl with his finger or a pressure washer will burst it… in goes the dirt and a can of worms opens up. 😕

all that said, i have heard of people using a mist of fluid when wrapping but i personally would never advise it.

[David_Evans]

couldn’t agree more Rob. I ve only ever wet apped once which was for multi layering (hadnt found the boards then!) There’s just no need for it as i personaly think water and glue just cant work alwell. but thats just my view.
Dave

[simon gregory]

Rob,

I understand where you are coming from,
To get round the water running into the recess we was placing a thin airline into one corner of the recess and sucking the air out whilst one followed round heating into the recess,

managed to get up close to a partner we wrapped 6 months ago and it looked fine, having said that if I’m defiantly gonna go it dry when we do ours as its the perfect time for trial and error without having to meet a deadline,

Many thanks

[squareone]

Hi all,

This is a really neat site.

Richard Tyte