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Advice Cutting Cellophane Rolls please?
You know your in trouble when you have to ask….. so here I am !! NEWBIE so please go easy !!
I bought a MH1351, using Corel and Sign Cut Pro 1 to ONLY cut 80cm wide cellophane from rolls into sheets of 80cmx51cm
All I want it to do is basically trim across the whole width of the roll, advance 51cm then repeat (repeating like a "print X copies" for example)
Trial 1) So, I set it to cut a 100cm wide x 51cm deep rectangle, should cover it right! Here is the problem… As the blade starts to reach the cellophane (50g pressue, 10mm/s speed) it catches and bunches up every time,,,,,, unsuccessful cut !!
Trial 2) So I changed it to cut a 75cm x 51cm rectangle out of the film, would work for me also….. it bunches up on the vinyl moving out (no on the pull) unsuccessful cut !!
So figured… ok, I just need to get it to cut a straight line, start from center and go outwards, return to center and cut outward the other way! Should work right ! used 2 colours and cut by colour to make 2 lines to control, definately along the right track right ! WRONG !!! The cutter still chooses to cut from the edge inwards and I get the bunching as in trial 1 above ! I can not control the DIRECTION of cut !!
I am not cutting complex patterns, it is a simple straight line then advance and repeat that I need yet I can not do it ! So here I am am, cap in hand (or lots of shredded and wasted cellophane anyway!) to ask humbly for help to do what I though would be the simplest cut a vinyl cutter could do…. A STRAIGHT LINE LOL !
Any experts out there that can get their head around what appears to be the most simplistic but complex cut and advise me or send me a simple pre-prepared file to simply send to the cutter would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you in advance!
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19 Replies
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Are you trying to cut right through the celophane?
Does the celeophane have a backing paper/release liner?
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Hi there,
Thanks for the reply,Yes cut straight through and no backing paper. I know that’s not what it is supposed to do but I thought it would be the ideal tool to automate the roll cutting process, it is proving rather difficult!!
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Hi Ian,
I really don’t think it’s possible to do what your trying to do, hopefully someone else comes a long and sheds some idea on it.
My only thought would be to perforate cut and make the gaps as small as possible but even at that, I don’t think you’ll be able to do edge to edge so invalidates it really.
I have a "window film handler" in the workshop which may work better for you but doesn’t automate it anyway
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You would need to cut this on a flatbed cutter…we’ve just installed a state of the art DYSS which has a suction bed so when cutting this material it keeps it stuck the the bed and the braces we use are totally different from a plotter.
I know this doesn’t help you but we’ve had trouble cutting similar material on our graphtec.
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As David says the only other way is to perforate cut, although it’s very slow & if its very thin will probably still bunch up, or just stretch it.
You couls try and devise a backing sheet, or just get it cut on a flat bed.
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Sounds like you need to set up a production line on the bench
Roll holder for the roll. full width trimmer to cut and marks on the bench
Pull material out under the trimmer to marks activate trimmer.. repete
Unless I have missed the point think it would be quicker.
I have a flat bed and roll cutters still think I would do it on the bench. -
Have to say that I’d be doing the same as Chris above, mount the roll on something like an app tape roll holder/dispenser, pull it through an A1 rotary trimmer / guillotine to a pre-marked position on the bench, slice and repeat.
I just don’t think the custter was designed to work like this. My latex printer has an ‘auto sheet off’ function but I’m fairly certain it would have to be a rotary blade in there.
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Hi guys,
Thank you all for you input, it all helps a lot !!
You are all right, there is no way the vinyl cutter with its "drag blade" is going to work. The bench idea and roller cutter would indeed work but I am looking to try and get this more of an automated process (so many rolls to cut into so many sheets, whilst I don’t need to do this every day, when I do need to do it…. it will take forever !!)
Well, taking all of your comments and advice on board, here is what I am going to try (it may not work lol but worth a try !)
I am going to make a modified blade for the MH1351….. a rotary cutter, 18mm or small if I can find one!
I will aim to have the blade mounted on something that can be gripped by the existing mounting for the blade (kinda hedge my bets !) Then I hope (and in THEORY it should work) the vinyl cutter can advance the film and the ROTARY cutter move across to do the cut at 51cm intervals!
Even if the rotary cutter does not LIFT and DROP as the knife would do, if I position the roll in the centre of the MH1351 this leaves me plenty of "run off" each side where the cutter could stop (EG cutting rectangle, oversized width, the cutter would be off the roll when the machine advanced or retarded the roll !!)
If it doesnt work, expect to see a slightly used MH1351 going cheap on Ebay very soon !!
Thank you all for your help, at least it led me to this experiment ! Will keep the post updated with results in case it helps anybody else in the future !
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See you have a plan there and I don’t think it’s a bad one.. best of luck with it.. trouble is you know what you want now to find it
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Mimaki plotters and printers have a seperate blade for media cut off – blade starts cutting from the middle otwards then goes back to the middle (with blade elevated) and the cuts the other side – we used to use it for cutting window tint without any backing paper – I’m sure that there was a box to tick which would cut off after job is cut/printed as well… you could perhaps use low tac aplication paper to back the cellophane?
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quote Chris Wool:See you have a plan there and I don’t think it’s a bad one.. best of luck with it.. trouble is you know what you want now to find it
Thats always the way !! Its worth a shot I think !
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quote Martin Lemiesz:Mimaki plotters and printers have a seperate blade for media cut off – blade starts cutting from the middle otwards then goes back to the middle (with blade elevated) and the cuts the other side – we used to use it for cutting window tint without any backing paper – I’m sure that there was a box to tick which would cut off after job is cut/printed as well… you could perhaps use low tac aplication paper to back the cellophane?
Thats interesting indeed !! If you have a cutter/plotter that can cut window film with no backing that sounds the machine I would ideally need ! Do you have a model number? Does it consistently cut with no gathering up of the film?
I cant really apply a backing film to these as they are 100m rolls, I would have to unroll it our, apply a backing film, roll it all back up (straight !!) and then cut in the machine, that would probably take me longer than just getting a simple large slide rule type rotary cutter and cut by hand, this is my problem !! Catch 22 lol ! :shocked:
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Ian – it was the CGFX and CGFX2 from mimaki we have used – we have used these on daily basis for normal plotter duties – to cut window film we have been loading the film as we would with any other vinyl and then feeding it in holding down the arrow on control panel (this would give us reading on the display showing distance traveled) we would then use the sheet cut off function (separate blade on these machines) to slice the window tint – hardly automatic but at least the machine had a separate blade which would actually cut the film…
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quote Martin Lemiesz:Ian – it was the CGFX and CGFX2 from mimaki we have used – we have used these on daily basis for normal plotter duties – to cut window film we have been loading the film as we would with any other vinyl and then feeding it in holding down the arrow on control panel (this would give us reading on the display showing distance traveled) we would then use the sheet cut off function (separate blade on these machines) to slice the window tint – hardly automatic but at least the machine had a separate blade which would actually cut the film…
Thats fair enough, at least it is another option !! Thank you for the details 😉
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Just a quick update !
It does it !!
My "olfa 18mm" rotary cutter arrived today, after a bit of studying and figuring out angles etc i set about hacking the little thing half to death !
to erm… cough cough "CUT" a long story short….. the modified rotary cutter blade is here and here to stay, swiftly cutting across my thin, NONE BACKING films with ease !! :yikes:
Ok it will probably chew up my teflon strip, or…. cut a nice perfect for the job groove over time but hey! thats all I bought this cutter to do :smiles:
I will figure out getting a youtube account to upload the video if anybody thinks it will serve them any use and do a step by step on how I got there in the end.
The main thing is it cuts, and all started here on uksignboards, you guys with all the help and indications lead me to this experiment to start with so thumbs up to all who chipped in ! :thumbsup: :claps: :praiseyou:
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Back again :awkward: and so quick !
Ok, so it cuts fine ! but when I make a file full of the marked lines to cut….. it wants to feed all the cellophane through first (from the back roll) that it knows is the total distance it needs to cut, and then starts cutting…… backwards, rewinding the cellophane as it cuts through the design !!! So the result is, after the first line is cut (and it does cut !!) I am left with about 20 meters of cellophane on the floor at the front of the vinyl cutter :bangshead:
Does anybody know how to make it run in the reverse, or effectively start at what it thinks is the end of the design?
using Signcut Productivity 1 if that helps, so deflated now its untrue !!
I just need it to make it cut…then advance 51cm to next cut, not advance 20 metres then cut and leave me with a pile of cellophane on the floor with me stood over it saying " Oh !!! I didn’t see that coming !" :rollseyes: :blushing: :shake: :puppyeyes:
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Well done respect..
A tip I learned some time ago when getting a plotter to do things the designer did not think of is remove the cutter whilst testing..
Don’t know you’re software but sounds like prefeed is activated and possibly media movement reduction
One step forward. -
quote Chris Wool:Well done respect..
A tip I learned some time ago when getting a plotter to do things the designer did not think of is remove the cutter whilst testing..
Don’t know you’re software but sounds like prefeed is activated and possibly media movement reduction
One step forward.Thanks for that Chris, I will try that and see if it makes a difference. Using SignCut Pro 1 that came with the cutter, but possibly better software out there, I just though, if only cutting straight lines it will be fine :shake: Not as easy as I thought lol !
As far as taking the blade out for trials…. yep ! Thats a good idea…. Amazing how you miss the simple steps when looking at the bigger picture :blushing:
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Some help points
In corel unless your cutting software alters it
It will cut in the order you drew it or you can make a object you have just drawn cut first by putting to back of the page
It will cut in the direction it was drawn you can reverse it by change direction under bezier menu
You can draw just a straight line space them and change direction and order of cut
Food for thought
The reason some machines cut off the material by cutting from near the centre out then just the little bit left in the middle is for the material to fall straight down from the machine.
If it’s cut from one side only it normally falls away awkwardEnjoy
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