£200 for a 16ft X 2ft fitted ! Crazy.

[Karl Williams]

I’d have thought, and this is only off the top of my head about the £400 mark minimum.

[signworxs]

Well to be honest there’s about £50/60 tops in materials and using my normal double it and add 100% for this kind of work (assuming your only supplying and fitting the panels ie no framing) my quote would be about £240 maybe 265 if it wasn’t a straight forward fix.

[Martin Pearson]

If they are using cheap materials then £50/60 for materials then becomes something like £30 for materials or even less, not sure what the current price for the gold is. An hour or so to cut weed and apply maybe a couple of hours to fit depending on access. If you don’t have much in the way of overheads or you are working at this part time then someone could easily do this at that sort of price.

[Kevin Flowers]

Hi
using 5 year mirror i would look at £350+vat, just bear in mind, not all quotes are like for like. I can buy cheap foamex which is ok for safety signs or flood coating or i can pay more for something with a better surface finish, whiter & denser. Just because a customer asks for 5 year mirror don’t mean they get it, because £17 for 5 year against £2 for 2 year i know what some would do if there wasn’t much profit in the job. At the end of the day i’ve found that the ones who are running around undercutting me with silly cheap prices aren’t around long enough to actually be a threat to my business so i let them run around and customers who are still shopping around after they have been quoted £200 for a sign of that size deserve what they will get.

Kev

[Kevin Flowers]

Martin
we can all do it at that price even using good quality materials but its basically how you value your time & skill. Cheap materials & rushing jobs because it has been under quoted is what is ruining the industry & giving the larger companies & associations the ammunition to bring in rulings like CSCS card scheme. I charge my rates because although i have low overheads for premises etc i do run legally with liability insurances, customers vehicle insurance etc which at the end of the day each customer pays a percentage of when they require a sign made & fitted by me. The customer may not appreciate this when all goes well but watch their opinion change when something goes wrong.

Kev

[Kenny Ramsey]

I would have thought I’d charge £80 for the foam board and around £100 for the mirror gold. Add £35 for the red vinyl, and hour in the workshop plus fitting time and it should be over £300.

It’s a common problem. A lot of customers don’t care if they get the best quality materials. So long as it looks good when it’s up 🙄

[Marcella Ross]

I agree with Kevin here…………… If they’ve been quoted £200 fitted they’re not getting 5 year mirror chrome vinyl ………… or they’re doing it for very little profit!
Wouldn’t be me doing it for that price ! I sometimes wonder why customers bother phoning round for prices when they get a cheap quote to start with. I had a guy phone me last week for a set of vinyls for a car. Logos going across the rear doors fitted over the wheel arches, bonnet logo and rear logo and rear window vinyls………… he said he’d got a price of £40 …….. would I beat it …………..he was told to beat it!!!!!!!!! 😮

Kate and Dan ……….. we’ve all got stuff like that to contend with. All you can do is offer your fair price and that’s the best you can do. Let others be busy fools.

[Martin Pearson]

Kevin, sorry to highjack this thread a bit and for disagreeing with you but these people are a threat to your business, every job they take at a stupid price denies you the chance of doing a decent job at a sensible price and although I would agree with you that they are not in business for very long there will be another one along right at the back of them so the problem is still there.

Kevin, I am not saying it is right to do it at that sort of price just saying that someone who didn’t care about the industry could easily do it and make some money, I wouldn’t have done it at that sort of price myself.

[Kevin Flowers]

Martin
i understand what you mean & agree with you maybe i worded it incorrectly. My work comes mainly from recommendation on work i’ve done & normally i end up going back to correct jobs that have failed or look tatty 6mths after being fitted. The local Signarama blitzed my area a year or so ago within a year i have been called to 4 signs they had fitted to either repair or replace. Some will use price to get a job i’ll stick to using Quality & Service.

Apologies for the thread Hijack 😳

Kev

[Martin Pearson]

Kevin, if you were called to repair or replace 4 signs fitted by the local Signarama it probably wasn’t down to them doing it cheaply but more likely down to them either using the wrong materials or fitting them incorrectly. They are not a cheap company as their overheads are usually very high and the owners are encouraged to charge as much as is humanly possible for every job they do.

[Jayne Marsh]

If I was in this situation, and I have been many times, I would give my price to the customer and also give them the spec of the materials that I would be using. I tell them when getting a number of different quotes to compare like for like and make sure that they know what they are paying for. Then its up to them wether they want a cheap sign that will fall apart quickly or a more expensive one that will stand the test of time.

[Warren Beard]

quote Jayne Marsh:

If I was in this situation, and I have been many times, I would give my price to the customer and also give them the spec of the materials that I would be using. I tell them when getting a number of different quotes to compare like for like and make sure that they know what they are paying for. Then its up to them wether they want a cheap sign that will fall apart quickly or a more expensive one that will stand the test of time.

Jayne, that’s what I do and it is the best, if the customer is at all concerned about the quality of his sign he will compare apples with apples, if it’s only price then let the other guy do it, you will get the repeat work when that one fails and at your price (or a little extra)

Warren

[Kenny Ramsey]

Good tip that Jayne. Never thought of it like that

[Paul Hodges]

The easiest thing to do in any business, is not make any money…literally anyone can do it!

One of the most soul destroying things is to have worked really hard for years and to have made no money. A few years ago i too would have got wound up over this sort of thing but i’ve developed a thick skin towards customers bringing silly quotes in with them, in fact, i quite often recommend they take up their silly quotes because you know somewhere down the line it will all come out in the wash (sometimes literally).

One thing i have learned is to always keep your margins as good as possible, keep the good work and let the bottom feeders do the shite work.

To be successful in this business I have to work hard, and I want to have a healthy business to show for it. If you have nothing to show for it at the end of the day, you might as well be working for someone else.

[Peter Normington]

I woudnt worry about it,
quote your own price, as long as you have constant work, and are making a good living, then to quote a silly TV prog, "Your price is right"

From the other angle, say another firm had quoted £1000. and you quoted £600, would they be saying you are to cheap?

Let them worry about their own business, just take care of your own,

some you win,, some you dont. no point in riding a high horse on price.

We all have to accept competition, fair or not, thats the way of the world.

You cant do a fig about it,

dont loose any sleep is all I can say

Peter

[Phill Fenton]

I do understand your frustration Kate and Danny. I hate it when a customer claims they can get it cheaper elsewhere.

Even worse are the ones who argue about the theoretical price of a sign. A good example of this is when I get people phoning up asking "how much to do a van". My reply is normally "to do a decent job on a Ford Transit for example would typically cost £200 upwards depending on what was being done". I’ve even had people argue with me that this is expensive – even though we are not discussing a specific example, merely quoting average figures.

I know I can do a van for less – but by quoting a typical price I weed out the time wasters and price shoppers who can go and irritate someone else.

[Peter Normington]

Just a little pointer, There is no such thing as expensive, the word means, "I cant afford it"

Peter

[mike o dwyer]

I AM IN IRELAND.I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO GET THOSE PRICES FOR JOBS.THERE IS SO MUCH COMPETITION THAT SOME SIGN MAKERS ARE BARELY MAKING PROFIT.I CAN’T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY DON’T WORK TOGETHER.I WAS ASKED TO QUOTE A JOB TODAY FOR A 16 FT. BY 2 FT. DIABOND SIGN COVERED IN BLACK VINYL WITH WHITE OR RED LETTERING AND QUOTED 380 EURO PLUS VAT. AND I WAS TOLD BY THE CUSTOMER THAT THEY HAD RECEIVED A QUOTE FOR 200 EURO(I SAW THE QUOTATION) I MUST MOVE TO BRITAIN..
MIKE

[Andy Gorman]

I think I might move. If there’s somewhere in England where you can get 400 squids for an 8×4 of foamex, I’m there! OK, a bit of 5 year chrome puts it up a bit, but the most I’d get for that is about 250. Nothing to do with underselling myself or the industry. Surely we’re talking about a couple of hours’ work at the most, including fitting. £100 an hour?

I wouldn’t do it for 200, but it isn’t far off what most customers would pay, from my experience.

[Karl Williams]

Talking about Signarama!
When they started up in Nottingham most sign firms including me got very
pi**ed of with them very quickly. Apart from this particular guy being crap, he decided to start putting his stickers on our signs claiming they were his. We were not amused. He got quite irate when we all told him if he carried on we would deck him.
This isn’t saying anything against the Signarama Brand, I’m sure many of them are of the highest quality, but this guy was so dumb you couldn’t help but want to throttle him. (:) (:) (:)

On the pricing thing, I always say I’m not the cheapest, and I am certainly not the dearest. If you think of the risk we all take on finance for the machinery, and lets agree some of us have invested heavily in our venture, we should be able to charge the right money in return for the risks we have taken.

[autosign]

Had a couple of clowns come in a few weeks back wanting 5 Transits done. I told them a basic job would be about £150 a van with most people spending £250+.

They thought that was way too much as they were thinking more like £30-£40 a van!

[Karl Williams]

That is a p**ss take!

[Kevin Flowers]

quote autosign:

Had a couple of clowns come in a few weeks back wanting 5 Transits done. I told them a basic job would be about £150 a van with most people spending £250+.

They thought that was way too much as they were thinking more like £30-£40 a van!

You should of sold them some crayons, paper & a prit stick

Kev

[Peter Normington]

quote Kevin Flowers:

quote autosign:

Had a couple of clowns come in a few weeks back wanting 5 Transits done. I told them a basic job would be about £150 a van with most people spending £250+.

They thought that was way too much as they were thinking more like £30-£40 a van!

You should of sold them some crayons, paper & a prit stick

Kev

But they would have said "I can get them cheaper at ***world 😀 😉 "

Peter

[mike o dwyer]

andy
i’m talking in euros not pounds.i am packing in the signs and buying a set of golf clubs.alot more profitable 😀 😀 oh yeah, signarama lets not go there!!!!

[Karl Williams]

Ya Pussy!! 😀 😎 😀

[mike o dwyer]

oh no karl let’s not.if i start and give an my opinions i WILL be booted off this forum forever!!!!!! (!) (!) (!)

[Karl Williams]

Ya P*ssy!
Dont know why me last post changed????

[mike o dwyer]

Karl
oops i swore also

[Lynn Normington]

[

quote :

quote]She stopped us halfway through, and said, ” Well actually I’ve been quoted £200 for it “….and that’s fitted !

Dan and Kate did you get paid for what you had done ? if you were half way through you would probably have bought in material, spent time on design and started to assemble ??

Lynn

[Lee Ballard]

I get it quite a lot as with everyone else."How much to do my van…/make a banner/sign my shop" and then when you quote either a ball park figure or even give a proper quote they go quiet and say, "didn’t realise it would be so much".

Works the other way too, there is a shop near me who had a 8×1 fascia sign, on 6mm foam board, supply only, nothing complicated, one colour flood and single colour text. He got charged £400+ for this sign. Nice profit if you can get it!

[David Arch]

Why wouldn’t you do a foam sign with a bit of vinyl for £200, I certainly would. You might all call me a cowboy now but I’ve been making signs for 5 years. Going on what has been said there is about £45 in materials leaving £155 profit for what I would say could be cut applied and fitted in about an hour and a half putting my wage at £100 an hour, if you cant make a living charging £100 an hour you should work faster or employ someone who can.

If you get 2 or 3 of those a day, thats not a very stressful day for nearly £500. For me, thats more than enough.

If your overheads are too high because you have invested in printers for example you shouldn’t complain that someone like myself with only a graphtec cutter has much lower overheads.

[signworxs]

Some one said that undercharging was ruining the industry,but equally overcharging has a worse effect and in my opinion to expect £400 for an 8×4 foam-ex and 10 meters of vinyl is overpricing
i said this sign would come in at 240/265ish and I’ve been in this game 26 years and my prices have always been competitive this is the going rate for two 8×2 panels fitted. If you were supplying a frame and fixing then that is another thing altogether.

[John Childs]

Sure, we can all whack these things out for £200, but that’s not what we’re talking about is it?. The original post states that that price was fitted.

So, on top of a couple of hours to make the sign it has got to be loaded in the van along with all the tools and ladders, driven to site and erected. Pack all the gear up, go home and empty the van. That could easily put another two, three, or even more hours on it, depending on how far away it was, plus van costs.

It might still be possible, but it doesn’t look so good now, and would need careful and realistic costing. Whatever, it’s certainly no licence to print money.

[Kevin Flowers]

Hi
no one is calling anyone a cowboy for doing the job for £200, its not about different overheads. Its about playing on a level playing field. Cost to make the sign
Vinyl 2nd color £12.00
5 yr mirror aprox £60.00 4mts
foam approx £20.00

VAT, delivery etc will adjust everyones prices.

Now add travel to site, time to set up Ali tower the expense of your public, liability insurance then your £100 per hour no longer is £100 per hour. I am sure people will say they can do that off a ladder in 1/2 hour, insurance whats that just make sure no one is about whilst i do it. Don’t need business insurance for me van just tell the insurance company i was just out visiting a mate if i have an accident. That is what makes a cowboy & i ain’t saying that anyone who has posted on the boards or this topic is, but they are out there. Which is why certain members feel that they are not competing on a even playing field.

Kev

[Peter Normington]

Kevin I cant see the effect liability insurance has on the price, for something this size and time, the cost is negligible, so dosnt really have any bearing.

The materials, access equipment, travel etc are all relevant as they are directly related to the quote, rather than an overhead.

Peter

[John Harding]

Peter the point Kevin is making is that for all those that set up in a proper fashion albeit from home or premises there are still overheads of which insurance is one and these factors all go into a price (or not if you don’t bother)

John

[Kevin Flowers]

John,
you said it better so i deleted my feeble attempt & don’t really want to get into it

Kev

[Peter Normington]

quote Kevin Flowers:

Hi
no one is calling anyone a cowboy for doing the job for £200, its not about different overheads. Its about playing on a level playing field. Cost to make the sign
Vinyl 2nd color £12.00
5 yr mirror aprox £60.00 4mts
foam approx £20.00

VAT, delivery etc will adjust everyones prices.

Now add travel to site, time to set up Ali tower the expense of your public, liability insurance then your £100 per hour no longer is £100 per hour. I am sure people will say they can do that off a ladder in 1/2 hour, insurance whats that just make sure no one is about whilst i do it. Don’t need business insurance for me van just tell the insurance company i was just out visiting a mate if i have an accident. That is what makes a cowboy & i ain’t saying that anyone who has posted on the boards or this topic is, but they are out there. Which is why certain members feel that they are not competing on a even playing field.

Kev

There is no such thing as a level playing field.

as you have just stated Kevin.

Everyone prices to their own costs,

Peter.

[Kevin Flowers]

Peter
level playing field relates to trading legally as in Tax, Insurance H&S, not price and this is the point that i will leave this conversation

Kev

[Peter Normington]

me too,
level playing fields refer to games, not business, games are a pass time. business is more serious, Tell me your quote for a particular job, Kevin, then we can start with a level field.

And for this reason… I’m out

peter