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Competitor / Client Dilemma
Just wondered how members would handle this situation.
We have done work for a local company, which included a new business logo design , production and printing of stationery and finally producing over 200 A3 correx signs.
Just had a phone call from client wanting to know what the typeface was on their logo, why I ask.
Because another company is sign writing two new vans and was re-doing their logo, so they wanted to know the typeface.Pointed out that this is a service we offer, they didn’t realise or forgot that we do vehicle livery, but they had agreed the order with the other company.
We hold the master vector on file and the typeface has been customised a little.
So I said I would send a high-res image (not the master) for this other company to use, so they don’t make a dogs breakfast of it, to help the client out.
Have I shot myself in the foot or was this the right thing to do.
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9 Replies
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I think it depends on what contractural terms you produced their logo.
Some companies keep copywright of their designs whereas some will give the copywright to the client so they can have free use of the logo on any future work.
When I do a design I give copywright to the customer, charge for the design work and send them eps. and pdf, files for them to keep and use how they wish. That is what i would expect and think it unreasonable to expect the client to have to come back to the person who did the original logo design for all future work.
However this should be made clear at the discussion and contract stage of the design work.
Also a client may want to try different companies for different products so fair enough to get the logo from you for others to use.
I often approach companies for logo files they may have rather than try and remake them.
So hopefully it was only a misunderstanding that they truly didn’y know you did van signage and that by supplying the proper logo files you will build trust and respect so they will come back to you again later -
You just have to use your gut feeling.
A genuine customer who’s otherwise happy with your work & service will return, and giving out non-editable artwork for another company is a half-assed effort at not giving it away!
(Most companies can replicate / rip a logo and re-vectorise is sometimes just a few minutes from a high resolution jpg or even a photo and bung it through other programs to add effects as required).
As far as I’ve been concerned the customer gets the design from me as part of the job with a few caveats: They’ll get images to allow them to promote their business but not make more signage (eg. web / facebook / t-shirts) and I’ll hand out vector designs VERY occasionally direct to the sign company that they might be getting to do some work if a) I never want to see them again. b)I trust the company not to poach them or c) wish to maintain the customer on-side without giving them the artwork to hand round themselves.
I would have been up for asking the customer to reconsider not using the other company (if no official order placed just a vague booking and maybe some preliminary work)…sweeten the deal with a discounted price as it sounds like it may be better to get ALL of the work for SOME of the profit than NONE of the work for NONE of the profit.
Dave
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Technically, if you charge the customer to create artwork/logo for them, they have copyright to that item, which really means that you cannot feasibly withhold the artwork from the client should they request it. It doesn’t mean you have to give them a vector file, you may have created it as a photoshop document etc, so you can only pass on what you have.
You can adopt another approach – create artwork/logos without charging the customer, and then use that artwork to create signage etc. You then retain copyright of the artwork.
The difficulty with these things is always how you deal with the customer when they ask you to do something you don’t have to do, which usually comes down to what kind of working relationship you want with the customer. Sometimes I think people see sign makers as a bit of a push over for getting artwork created cheaply and then using them as a supplier to furnish every one else with said artwork.
Try getting original artwork files out of someone like Vista Print just because they did some cards for you, they’ll tell you to take a running jump!
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Thanks for the replies.
The logo I did for free, but I didn’t want to hand over to the other sign company, a vector’d logo to make it easy for them.
They quoted 50 quid to sign up a Ford Fiesta van, which is just ridiculous, which our client has jumped at.
If they are daft enough to offer such a price which included recreating the logo, then they probably won’t be around to long.
I did offer to price match and do as a loss leader to keep their future business, but to no avail, I did also point out about consistent branding etc etc.
But hey ho… -
quote Paul Hodges:Sometimes I think people see sign makers as a bit of a push over for getting artwork created cheaply and then using them as a supplier to furnish every one else with said artwork.I agree. I recently had a lady tell me to get the artwork for her logo and letter style from her website , then she went on vacation. I had to design the logo from scratch and alter the font which I downloaded. I was told to quote her on a tray sign with 1/2" perspex cutout letters and logo attached to front with digital print attached to the faces in the exact colours as her website artwork.
When she got back from holiday I presented her with my quote and she presented me with 3 other quotes about 1/3 of my price. I told her she would be better off going with one of the other companies. She wouldn’t pay me a dime for my design work.
2 months later she got her sign. It was a digital print on a tray. I heard through the grapevine that the guy who did it for her would never do any work for her again as she refused to pay for his design time and made him change the digital print 3 times.
I seem to attract these people like a magnet. -
quote Mike Thornley:Thanks for the replies.
The logo I did for free, but I didn’t want to hand over to the other sign company, a vector’d logo to make it easy for them.
They quoted 50 quid to sign up a Ford Fiesta van, which is just ridiculous, which our client has jumped at.
If they are daft enough to offer such a price which included recreating the logo, then they probably won’t be around to long.
I did offer to price match and do as a loss leader to keep their future business, but to no avail, I did also point out about consistent branding etc etc.
But hey ho…£50 is not a realistic price to even get started to look at doing a vehicle livery. If you really stop to think about it, an average rate for someone in your studio to produce the design and manufacture it, would be at least £25.00 per hour, so that job allows you two hours from design to installation…clearly not a very good business plan whatever type of job you do.
This is the type of scenario where you don’t want to be passing on any artwork/advice/knowledge etc etc
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quote Del Blanchard:quote Paul Hodges:Sometimes I think people see sign makers as a bit of a push over for getting artwork created cheaply and then using them as a supplier to furnish every one else with said artwork.
I agree. I recently had a lady tell me to get the artwork for her logo and letter style from her website , then she went on vacation. I had to design the logo from scratch and alter the font which I downloaded. I was told to quote her on a tray sign with 1/2″ perspex cutout letters and logo attached to front with digital print attached to the faces in the exact colours as her website artwork.
When she got back from holiday I presented her with my quote and she presented me with 3 other quotes about 1/3 of my price. I told her she would be better off going with one of the other companies. She wouldn’t pay me a dime for my design work.
2 months later she got her sign. It was a digital print on a tray. I heard through the grapevine that the guy who did it for her would never do any work for her again as she refused to pay for his design time and made him change the digital print 3 times.
I seem to attract these people like a magnet.Typical isn’t it? Someone under cuts you but the customer doesn’t understand it’s not the same job. They blow you out for being too expensive, then realise the quote they’ve gone with is not what they wanted, but are too embarrassed to come back to you to admit it, so they end up with something they hadn’t intended to have.
All you can really say about that is that good customers who use you often, normally trust you without having to get other quotes all the time because they know you know your stuff, and you don’t get all this. Randoms – or casual customers if you like, are quite often like this. That’s where experience tells you when to spend decent time on a customer and when not to bother too much.
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We have been on the other hand, so to speak.
A customer wanted a sign making using the images from his leaflets. I asked for better images to use, he contacted the printer who charged him £40 for 6 images.
Similer thing, customer wanted to use a font from a leaflet for his sign, asked his the name of the font, the printer asked for our email, he emailed over an invoice for £60 first.
Seems signmakers give artwork away freely but it does return the same way
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I know everyone says that you should always charge for artwork and not to do a thing until the price is agreed and in some cases paid up in advance.
I agree up to a point.
However:I am in the habit of using artwork as a sales technique.
In half an hour with illustrator and a profile I can give a client some idea of what his van will look like.
The scale artwork also makes it easy to price the job.
I send a low res. screenshot which sells itself, long with a quote which includes the artwork.
If you turn this around quick enough the client usually doesnt bother looking for a second quote.
Simon.
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