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Drying racks for digital printed media ?
Happy new year year everyone.
To kick 2013 off in the right direction I have decided to build a print and finishing room. Up until now my printer, laminator, cutter and work bench for weeding etc have all been in an open plan workshop.
What I would really like is a drying rack for leaving prints to gas out on. Something big enough as I often find myself printing 8×4 tiles… But out of the way..
I have been thinking along the idea of a giant clothes horse made from ply and plastic waste pipe…I would be great full to see how others are tackling this problem…
Cheers dave
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20 Replies
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I don’t actually have the need for anything like this but my first thought would be to go for more of a washing line setup so the prints are hanging (pegged) to the line rather than lying flat
I would imagine it would take up less space and it would also allow the solvent gasses to ‘fall off’ the print as they dry
As I say, I haven’t done this……just a suggestion
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Happy new Year dave
We made box outline from cheap timber placed cube wire shelving units above without the shelves in, put fan in box underneath and placed below big extractor that blows to outside
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Cheers guys.
Glenn I like your thinking its given in an idea, as the ceilings are quite high I could have something that maybe I can winch up out of the way on a simple pulley system and tie off on a cleat.
Adrian do you have any issues with the edges of the prints creasing ? Also air flowing over the media seems a very good idea.. I may have to rethink airflow in the print room.
Thanks again.
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Hi Dave Washing line wouldnt work for us soem prints can be 10, 20, 30 metres long we dont print right to edge of vinyl and have never had any creasing problems, been doing it this way for years
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i know the logic behind this and i know that many assure me it works. But i still think a drapped or hung with a fan is better.
coiled leaves lots of closed areas where the vinyl touches and doesnt allow air circulation in those areas. do not get me wrong, its better than most and you have a pretty good drying set-up there Adrian.other than large banners, we never need more than 110 inch prints by width of roll.
which means they can be draped easy enough. or do you mean you just print roll-to-roll and leave? -
Hi Rob we always uncoil the roll enough so there is no contact, generally these are left at least 24 hours on blower (its a powerfull one)
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I just loosely roll my prints and stand them on a table overnight so worse case is say 10hrs drying if printing late afternoon and laminating first thing in the morning (depending on how late I work 😉 ) I’ve never once had an issue so not sure why all that is needed and for so long?
Interesting though
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quote Warren Beard:I just loosely roll my prints and stand them on a table overnight so worse case is say 10hrs drying if printing late afternoon and laminating first thing in the morning (depending on how late I work 😉 ) I’ve never once had an issue so not sure why all that is needed and for so long?Interesting though
You should have the rolls off a closed surface such as Adrians setup.
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I use a fold out clothes one mounted 3 metres from floor level. Works for most prints and if I have a really long one, I mount a floor fan off to one side to blow out the gasses left in the valleys caused when hanging a print over 6 metres long.
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I have teh Latex 😎
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But why? Just because you do,it doesn’t mean it’s necessary or am I in for trouble in a year or 2 because of the way I dry my prints?
I’ve never had a problem so why would I fix something that ain’t broke?
Who does have issues with this? I always hear people saying this what you should do etc but does everybody do it? I don’t and sure others don’t so where are they with all the problems because of it?
Sorry not trying to be funny but I just don’t understand why?
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we done it with the jv3 warren… not many problems… only issue i have is dust and wet ink.
However heat settings were reasonable. As always, jobs were left to last minute and laminating happened twenty-sixty minutes after printing… never really got any issues with it.
However Latex is what we have now, only issue with it is balancing the heat settings, can be too wet if heat is too low
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Warren folk will get by doing it your way, and in many cases never see a problem.
Basically the vinyl’s need to be air’d properly to allow for out gassing of the solvents.
Most solvent will evaporate from the media within the first 24 hrs, but can continue 36 hrs or more later dependant on how they are allowed to air.Example 1
It is the same with auto shops spray painting. You should not letter a vehicle with graphics within 2 weeks of it being painted. again this is to allow out-gassing of the paint.
Many years ago we lettered a job for a customer. it was onto a freshly painted vehicle with reflective vinyl. we left the job and it was perfect. 2-3 days later we get a call, a complaint. I popped over to look at the job and there was a million bubbles all over the vinyl’s.
this is because the vinyl trapped the out-gassing of the paints. in doing so created all these tiny bubbles. to make matters worse, when removing it to redo it, it damaged the fresh paint! lesson learned the hard way!Example 2
When we only had our grenadier printer. We had a large fleet livery job of wraps. part way through the contract the customer gave us a batch of trucks to do in a rush. we could only manage to print half the truck, rear and front in one day. the second morning we did the other half. and continued onto the next vehicle. it was full on for about 3 weeks.I was NOT comfortable with doing it like this and explained to the customer. he wasnt bothered and said so, he just wanted the fleet completed in time for deadline.
about a year ago i was in their place measuring up vehicles.
a truck came in off the road and to my horror the side was a disaster.
HUGE blisters filled with water, creases and cracks all over the place.on close up inspection i could see "EVERYTHING" was damage to the laminate.
the entire vehicle was perfectly fine, but one side was terrible.
i could also see that the print was perfect as was the base digital vinyl.
but the laminate was an eyesore!
it took me some time to look over this and get my head around.
but from what i could see, the laminate was coming away ever so slightly along the top of the vinyl forming a tiny ridge which acted like a gutter.
when i say tiny i mean tiny…
water appeared to have rested on this ridge and the ridge got larger, till the water on the top began to "pocket". in turn, the weight of the water began to prize more and more of the laminate away from the printed media. this again, allowing more and more water to pocket, making the water heavier, in turn prizing more vinyl laminate off the printed media.
i could physically see that each end of the vinyl panels had slid in over two inches on the surface either side of each panel because it left a trail of adhesive. each of the large panels along the side of the truck were exactly the same.
whilst some of the pockets of water made it right down the depth of the truck, some didnt. leaving half a football sized pockets of water on the sides. those that had reached the bottom and leaked out left large britlle laminate that began breaking away.as you can imagine the one side of the truck was a right-off!
and i knew why!!!the grenadier was printing, the rear, front and one side of the truck in one day. then onto the other side the next. late that day or following morning the truck was laminated and trimmed up for fitting.
Once fitted, you now have a complete truck… but…
the front, rear and one side has had 24-36 hrs to out-gas. which the single side printed on the second day only had between 8+20 hrs to out-gas.
all panels were heavily covered in ink…i reported this to the company and we re-done and fitted it free of charge.
a month later i was in another depot and in comes a truck, EXACTLY the same way! and only "one side".
again we replaced it…
2 weeks later, whilst at the same "remote" depot… i spots yet another.
1 side of for, exactly the same way….
i had to have a meeting to explain we would redo this one but as we had strongly advised we needed longer out-gassing time, any more faults would not not be F.O.C. this was accepted. 3 more followed!both examples above were down to out-gassing, or should i say the lack of out gassing.
try fitting an un-laminate 100% ink coverage bit of vinyl to anything after its dried for an hour or two. it is like cling film, thin, stretchy and near impossible to work with.
this is "visible" signs of what solvent is doing to your media before it has properly dried out. it effects the media and even the adhesive…
it can make the vinyl begin to peal after application.
it can make the laminate peal because it cannot key to the ink properly.
the list goes on…
one of the most important areas to properly allow for out-gassing is in vehicle wraps.i hear what your saying warren, i also know of other sign makers that don’t
keep to the rules for out gassing. i can only say in the best possible way, "you have been lucky" mate.Just look at HP and their Latex machines.
They are making £millions worldwide with these new printers.
and amongst its various great selling points, the main one has to be virtually no drying / out gasing time required, even when laminating.hope my babbling explanation helped… 😀
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Adrian I like your fan idea, if you have limited space.
I have bought a small ducted fan of the domestic ceiling heat transfer type from the local hardware store in order to set it up. My idea was to make a cupboard type thing with a mesh floor to stand the rolled vinyl on, with the air blowing downhill, because the solvents are heavier than air. Similar to yours, but enclosed.
But I have a question for you.
Is there any failsafe way to roll up vinyl loosely so it does not touch, keeping all the coils spaced equally? I have scratched my head about this for a while, and I cant figure it out. You say there is no contact, but how do you make sure of this? I suspect the vinyl will sag in places, and prevent the air from circulating.Up till now, I have done the following. I have VHB taped lengths of steel bracing along the top of the walls, and I use magnets to hang up the prints from these.
And, Rob, I totally agree with everything you say. I do not EVER laminate until the prints have been hanging for at least two days. The customer just has to wait, or go elsewhere!
Simon. -
2 days 😮
Sorry to make you type all that out but I know this, what I don’t know is why do all this if you have no issues?
Hanging prints for 2 days is crazy, sorry but I think it’s crazy dude, I will usually wait at least 8 hours with my prints rolled up on a table, some times if a large roll I will flip the roll over on to the other end so the solvents drop back down the other way.
My point is I have NEVER had any issues ever so why should I build a rack with fans etc etc and wait days and days?
Is it just me then?
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Warren
having a holed base rather than a solid table means the solvents can drop away instead of being trapped within the role. This aids faster curing and the most important fact one side isn’t more cured than the other.However i normally leave my prints rolled as they come off the take up sitting on a old role holder 😀
Kev
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quote Warren Beard:Sorry to make you type all that out but I know this, what I don’t know is why do all this if you have no issues?
Warren, as i said mate, you have been lucky to have went so long without any major come backs.
however, you say you leave your prints 8 hours. that too is fine dependant on what you have printed… lots come into play.* Ink coverage,
* density of ink. i.e. black
* what & where the media has been applied to.
etc. etc.not often, but we too laminate prints within the recommended time period.
its about understanding when you can push the boundaries "if need be".If you are happy with printing and laminating everything same day, then thats fine. but keep the above in mind should your vinyl’s start dog-earing coming away on a job for no apparent reason, micro blisters appear all over the surface, de-lamination occur or vehicle wraps pull from shallow recesses.
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quote :Is it just me then?NO not just you but…………
wrap material and mx stuff get the full 24 hour treatment as its expensive so will do as the manufactures say, if i have failures they get a ear full.any polymeric work will be flat surface work and lot less value so the 24 hr rule goes out the window, light inks almost straight away heavy ink a few hours if it goes wrong my fault. so far so good.
but i am mainly talking about prints up to 1200 sq. if it was the side of a truck trailer it would be nearer the 24 hr wait due to too big to take the mick with.would be nice to put the waiting prints in a nice protective cage though
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Ink is another factor, mimaki original ink is fairly quick drying and if you got heaters 40deg + then you will reduce your drying time.
When you unwind your print, you hear sticky noises or print on the back of the backing sheet… your in trouble.
Another factor is how much ink is not touch dry when it reaches the roller, you know from experience that if you can mark it, your not curing right.
Air flow is important, acceleration does help for rush jobs and 70% of our work is within a few days so curing is vital.
The 3rd party inks we was on did a good job as the original, but solid print is now something that even the original Latex printer struggles with, finding the right temp balance for curing.
That lamination failure does sound like rain and wet ink. If I was working in the production and noticed the ink was not touch-cure then it would have to wait. Maybe freezing conditions and water didn’t help either?! list goes on but as u said one side is the main clue if they are all parked in same depot.
Not all jobs need to be treated this way, we rushed and only had one lamination failure over 10years with jv3
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Hi Simon no there is no failsafe way you just have to be careful, but we have never had a problem
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