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Are sites like Vistaprint harming our business?
Increasingly I have customers comparing prices with Vistaprint – 2 vehicle magnets for £14.98 as an example. 250 business cards cheaper than a packet of fags.
Worse still, they’re getting cards etc off Vistaprint and then wanting the artwork copied on to signs!
In reality the end product is not as good as what we might supply but I was chatting to a local electrician who bought a pair of the magnets. Yes they’re smaller than normal but it’s still a job I didn’t get to look at. -
37 Replies
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It’s not really affected us. I would say the people that are most likely to go to the likes of Vistaprint are the kind that want a cheap job anyway. We would rather they go elsewhere anyway.
Just my take on it.
Cheers
Gary
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My latest customer showed me loads of stuff he did on vista print in his shop, and basically said it was all SHIT, he said he wishes he never ordered it!
So as you say its for people who want a cheap job, and to be honest most of the stuff is just cheap crap!
If you want a proper job (Theres my cornish!) then get a professional!
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Yes I think Vistaprint is bad for our business. It undermines what we are doing and creates an expectation in our customers for what are unrealistic prices that do not allow for a viable and sustainable business.
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in a way they do us a favor.
cheap feel card the wrong size
seen 3 customers all carpenters with the same design -
quote Chris Wool:in a way they do us a favor.
cheap feel card the wrong size
seen 3 customers all carpenters with the same designFlooding the market with the same rubbish!
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Think I would agree with Phill on this one, biggest problem I found was that customers in general had no idea about signs or what would be best for them.
I found that if you took the time to try and educate them then generally they realised that you are not expensive and the work you did for them was a much greater benefit to their business.
Yes there are always going to be those that only buy on price and as Gary says you don’t really want those sort of customers anyway. The real problem I guess are those people who don’t even contact you for a price and use someone like vista print because they don’t know any better and assume everyone is doing the same sort of thing but just charging much higher prices.
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just this week had a call from a client asking for a banner, ten minutes later another call, telling me to forget it, as she had ordered it from Vista , so I think it is having an impact. regards Graham
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we have lost out on loads to vistaprint, because we are a small island people don’t generally want large runs, there are not that many large businesses that want to spend money on image, but there are loads of little ones, who don’t have large budgets, and they have turned to vistaprint giving away stuff for free (flyers, business cards etc) that was a lot of bread and butter stuff for us! We have quoted loads of cars,vans to be sign written and then i see them driving around with the vistaprint magnets, so yes it is effecting us. With the problems Spain has at the moment we don’t want to lose out on any business whether its big or small!
i do chuckle to myself when i see the magnets completely faded after about 6 weeks of our sun, and a little part of me thinks they will be in to accept that quote soon! Annoyingly we then see them with new magnets.the other reason it effects us is people used to come in for business cards and we would sell them uniform,signs and all of our other goodies, but now we dont see them as they are all on vistaprint.
all the printers that we sub to on the island, if you bring up vistaprint they start seething!
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Strange…doesn’t really affect us much.
If people want cheap, unoriginal designs, on low grade materials they are welcome to go to vista
otherwise…they pay us what we want and go away REALLY chuft to bits.
Dave
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Just looked on the vistaprint website, i didnt realise that they done things like magnets. They look really cheap & nasty.
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Dave, how do you know it doesn’t really affect you?? How do you know how many people haven’t bothered to contact you because they have got what they wanted from Vista print.
Stu, they pretty much do everything to do with print. Yes they do look cheap and nasty and the ones I saw up close didn’t look to be printed on a vehicle grade material either, they looked really silly on the vehicle as well because they were so small, the customer didn’t realise there were other options available to them either which was the point I was trying to make earlier.
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Same old same old I think, you can either worry about it and get the hump or you can accept that they are there, are going to stay there and work around it. Vist dont make money out of the products they sell, they make money out of selling thier customer details as mailing lists which is Worth a lot more.
I get stuff from vista like rubber stamps and some other silly stuff really. You can buy a pair of shoes for a pound at your local factory shop but Clarks arnt worried!
Vista will never be able to do what we do when it comes to complete solutions and you will always have customers for that. Everybody has less money these days, so if someone can get a banner for £25 they are going to buy it regardless of the quality. We just need to get used to the fact that we are unlikely to be able to knock out banners any more for the kind of profit that we used too. If artwork was supplied, could you knock out 20 x 2 meter banners a day for £30 and make a profit? (without hemming of course) that would be sustainable for me (I don’t but I could).
I took all of this into account when re doing my business model for the next 5 years. I think Times have changed and we need to accept the change and adapt to it.
Just my thoughts but I think it can also be used to our advantage.
BigMo
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The way I follow this (and other similar discussions in the past) is that Vistaprint is a kind of "cheap and nasty" sign co in the UK ?? Almost like a Chinashop for signs? Are they really that much cheaper than "legit" sign shops?
Firstly, like a chinashop, bad opposition is IMHO your best friend. Once you’ve had an experience where you pay "1x" at the chinashop, only to have a poorly performing product fail after 1 week, you (and any other client) will realise that paying "6x" for a product that performs well, and works for 3 years without missing a beat is actually far cheaper. A friend of mine, who owns a sign shop in the next town, recently imported a chinese printer (I used to do his printing) It stopped working a week ago (after less than 2 months) Apparently he finished 1x 50m roll of media, and was less than halfway into the second roll……
The printer is 6x cheaper than a Roland, but my Roland is still working like the day it was installed after about 130 rolls of media through it. Do the costing. My Roland is the cheapy, and his piece of junk the ridiculously expensive!!
Secondly, I had a look at the Vistaprint prices. Its roughly the same as my own 😮
I know that labour is about 4-6x cheaper for me, and rent about 2-3x cheaper, but we pay 10 – 30% more for equipment and consumables, and 50 – 500% more for substrates. DiBond is almost 200 Euro per sheet (3mm) for example. What do you guys pay for it?
I also include free artwork, but mine is not some "select -a – template and add your details" type job. I have a full time designer that spends his working day doing just that – designs. Another guy does the more mundane artwork. (Safety notices etc) – and when I have time, I also do it. Once we’ve done your job, your artwork is yours. If you need letterheads printed, or want to place an ad in the newspaper, I forward your logo’s etc. to those guys without charging a cent.
Stupid?? I dont think so! My entire business model revolves around volumes, price, and quality. I use the same or better materials as my opposition, with far better designs, with free artwork and installation/travel at cost. I keep 12 guys busy 9-12 hours per day, while the opposition have 1 to 3 guys counting their toes all day. They cannot charge less, because they are unproductive. I can charge less, and make a decent profit, because the shop is busy, always.
If allowed, I would like to post some of my prices (and the materials I use) as comparison to Vistaprint. On some things I am 10 – 15% more expensive, but consider that I use good materials, laminate my prints, and include proper artwork and design….
What says you? Since I am in Namibia it cannot hurt to do that? Maybe even post some pictures of jobs I did, and what I charged, for you to compare (you dont have to disclose your prices, use just as comparison)
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I’ve never failed to sell my mags after showing them a pair of vista mags, small and orrible, there’s a few sets round here now which have almost faded to White as well, truly rubbish.
Their tees are no better,
Business cards.. I decided ages ago that there’s no real reselling money in it so I now just design print ready art @£25ph and they can take it wherever they want. I’ll obviously supply if asked but I’ll only ever supply quality cards so they’re not cheap.
With first impressions counting for so much I can never understandd why people will spend £5k fitting out their new shop and then expect me to do their signs, cards and van for nothing. I’ve been busier than ever this year and have been a lot stricter with what I’ll not do. Eg. I simply will not put up foamed on a high st unless it’s framed, 99% of my panels are good composite and while it may seem snobby, I’m not wrecking my reputation putting up signs thatll look poo in 6months, for the sake of saving a custome a few quid on materials. While I’m doing no
More jobs than last year, the quality and size of jobs is always improving.Vista are welcome to them.
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I’m with you Hugh, Iv’e had 150% growth over the 12 months and turned over my best month to date last month (well in to 5 figs)…. so not affecting me..
BUT!!!!!!!!!!
Just a note because I buy the odd piece from Vista….. HAVE YOU CHECKED OUT THE POSTAGE????????? 😮
Last time I wanted some cards the cards where £50 I think for 500 something like that, but the postage started at £30 for 2 day service….LOLOLOL
So all is not what it seems. And like Hugh, I have people come in every week post VistPrint wishing they had come to me first. Also not everyone is able to find things like that on the internet. So there are probably just as many customers if not more who don’t even know vista print exist.
remember, your customer pot is not ever lasting, recommends will not last forever. At some point you will need to top the customer pot up yourself. If you don’t you could find yourself with an empty pot and in extreme cases you could lose the pot completely…. then….. If you need to go to the toilet…. you really wont have a pot to go in!
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I looked at the Vista magnets – they are the lightweight thin indoor type material.
Even at the largest size they do they make a business vehicle look really bad.I just did a print job for business cards and postcards.
When I delivered them the guy had discovered Vistaprint and found he could get 1000 cards with change from £20, decided I was ripping him off and refused to pay.
Then he threatened me when I mentioned that I would have to chase it legally.
Trouble is that this Neanderthal moron split a brain cell with his twin and just can’t see reason. He’s a paint sprayer and used the excuse that the artwork wasn’t what he wanted – despite signing it off. This is how thick he is; he suggested I just make the alterations and re-lacquer them.
The mind boggles 😮 -
quote Peter Dee:When I delivered them the guy had discovered Vistaprint and found he could get 1000 cards with change from £20, decided I was ripping him off and refused to pay.
Bet he didn’t see how much the postage was 😕
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The fair, I do use vista for the cheap cards I throw into all my eBay sales, I show the customer those first, £40 a thousand, then the nice ones at £95/1000, they usually go with the nice ones!!
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I have vista cards people have left. I show them those, and then show them a 450gsm, matt lamintated, litho card. Works a treat!
I do get the occasional wanker like on friday. How many cards can I get for a tenner… No artwork, nothing, and he wanted them right then!
I find educating the customer helps. Show them what they"re getting.
I even keep copies of artwork clients supplied and then what we’ve produced. Like a before and after. Also handy.
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quote David Hammond:I even keep copies of artwork clients supplied and then what we’ve produced. Like a before and after. Also handy.
Great idea David, I think I might follow suit :thumbsup:
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Like this Vista Print post.
Someone gives you a vista print card at a networking event, you know they have spent £15 on their business cards, right? so are you going to take financial advise from them, or let them represent you in court on a murder rap – No. Would you let them cut your grass – Yes.
This is always the analogy i give my customers, if they decide they have only got £15 to spend, then they are ideal customers for Vista Print.
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Vista print in my eyes is just another competitor, there are lots of other people out there trashing the industry by selling under par signs for beer money.
I can not match the price nor the quality so customers wanting rubbish can take a long walk of a short pier and stop wasting my time.
I know there are a lot of sign makers here that offer a personal quality service and have prod eon what they do. I would not do business without knowing the face to a name.
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I like others keep poor business cards from Vista to show customers what the lower end of the scale is and in fact it’s quite easy to up sell them once they touch and feel the quality, I do it with canvasses too.. I’ve got a canvas that a customer gave me after they purchased about 20 online, my client sold high end cars and the supplier wrapped the front and rear of the cars round the edge of the frame, leaving pretty much the doors on show.
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After thinking about it a little more, I’m finding fleabay is hurting me more, as customers go on there and do a price comparison. I quoted for a 3.5 flag with a double sided print yesterday £250 inc vat which I thought was cheap, customer came back and said he can get them on fleabay for around £120, I’m finding it hard to buy just the hardware for that never mind the print, same with business cards/flyers etc etc etc
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As we’ve said on here before, no such thing as ‘trade price’ any more.
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It’s all about educating the customer.
If you are buying a car, a packet of biscuits, tin of paint, it’s easy to do a like for like comparison.
Joe Public probably think a PVC Banner is a PVC Banner, sticky back plastic is sticky back plastic.
What is more damaging is these people who go and buy cheap, it look’s crap, it falls apart after a few weeks, and don’t get the results they expected, and then instantly assume what ever it be they’ve bought to be ineffective and A) Never buy it themselves again B) Tell others that they tried it and it didn’t work putting them off.
When we know a well thought out design, and quality materials will do what it is meant too.
I don’t have a problem with people wanting ‘cheaper’ options, I’m now sell ‘budget’ and ‘premium’ banners & posters now, as there’s clearly a market that I have turned away… I do have standards, and I don’t drop below them.
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quote Jon Marshall:As we’ve said on here before, no such thing as ‘trade price’ any more.Thats so true.
I spent the best part of yesterday morning getting a price together for some promotions items.Only to be told by the customer they could beat all my prices simply by googling.
Yes he could, but if I hace to pay £1000 in advance for his items, I need to make £300 minimum on that.
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I had a conversation with someone today, about Vistaprint mags. I told her that I did a design (for my pub) and purchased 2 Vistaprint mags with this design on. The intention (which I haven’t got around to yet) is to print magnetics here, laminated of course, and put one of each outside, exposed to the elements, then we can do a proper comparison.
And yes, I think Vistaprint is hurting my business.
Lorraine
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quote Lorraine Clinch:I had a conversation with someone today, about Vistaprint mags. I told her that I did a design (for my pub) and purchased 2 Vistaprint mags with this design on. The intention (which I haven’t got around to yet) is to print magnetics here, laminated of course, and put one of each outside, exposed to the elements, then we can do a proper comparison.
And yes, I think Vistaprint is hurting my business.
Lorraine
I was going to do similar for a presentation I am giving in December… only trouble is I ain’t pay £20 delivery to get them here in time!
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But if you get delivery by snail mail it’s much less, and doesn’t usually take 3 weeks. (Yes, I have purchased in the past! Like Mo, usually postcards, stamps etc.)
Lorraine
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quote David Hammond:How many cards can I get for a tenner… No artwork, nothing, and he wanted them right then!I’d want a tenner just to tell him to f**k off!
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You wrote the bible here my man, get to grips guys this is here to stay do it or do something else
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If someone had told you that Comet, MFI and Woolworths would all be a thing of the past five years ago, you have said they were nuts, watch this space folks, quality , craftsman and crafts women, will win out, remember you heard it first on this channel
I don’t think we should ever have to apologise for our price or quality -
graham, who are you referring / talking to?
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graham, who are you referring / talking to?
Sorry, seen the next post.
However, we are a bit different to the ‘big’ guys, all the same. Any comments?
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quote Lorraine Clinch:graham, who are you referring / talking to?
Sorry, seen the next post.
However, we are a bit different to the ‘big’ guys, all the same. Any comments?
Lorraine,
I am talking in general about the big boys who offer these great deals and eventually everyone moves on and they become a thing of the past, ( because of poor quality) like the examples I gave, and I am sure that the likes of Vista Print will go the same way, while the smaller Independant operators win continue to prosper. -
We have Vistaprint in NZ as well.
An old customer of mine turned up a few weeks ago with a pair of 40 dollar vistaprint magnets on her pickup.
two weeks later she drove it away from my shop with a 5000 dollar wrap, the vistaprint magnets in my dustbin.
I think Vistaprint have their place.
That place is to help me sell my work.Simon.
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