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Absolutely disgusted at ink wastage on eco solve max carts
I have just run low on my magenta 400cc cart and my new ones get delivered tomorrow, so I thought I would try a little experiment! I decided to extract what was left in the cart with a syringe… how much do you think I got out?
90 flipping cc’s thats nearly 25% of the ink in the cart not being used… I am absolutely beside myself. I have decided to empty all my used magenta carts and refill one… I have managed to completely fill a cart from the wastage..
This is criminal, not only are we paying through the nose for ink anyway, but to have nearly 25% not being used is outrageous….
Rant Over!
BigMo
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30 Replies
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If your doing that Mo then you might as well go the whole way and fit a bulk ink system. I get every last drop out of the bottles.
Steve
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Hi Steve, I’m definitely thinking about it now that the warranty on my machine is up, what do you recommend for versacamm spi range?
But it’s just wrong isnt it? I have been able to fill 4 400cc carts from the wast left in my so called "empties"
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Hi Mo
That’s strange mate as I run the same ink and printer and my carts are empty when I take them out, could it be a setting somewhere.
What happens if you put a used cart in your printer from somebody else? I had an offer to buy some used carts from somebody who switched to bulk system but I was worried my printer would know they were half fill and suck air through when the emptied, could something similar have happened to your machine making it think the cart is empty, possible a cart which wasn’t empty was removed and a full one put it, if the printer didn;t know it was now full it would say empty when it wasn’t.
I’m just going on now…….. sounds strange to me
anybody else have this issue?
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well I just put a refilled cart on, going to try it now, but versaworks is still saying empty on the status, but printer is not saying to replace cart now… must be a chip thing. Think I will be ok to run a print?
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I did this a few weeks ago as I was intrigued as to how much was still in them. I was exactly the same completely astonished at the waste..
When the machine lets me know that the ink is empty IE beeps at me ive ran through another 3m print onto banner and it was still spot on. I didn’t chance anymore then changed the cart.
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Yep very strange!!
I replaced a 440ml cart on my Mutoh yesterday (yellow) and noticed there was ink left even though machine said empty.
Not noticed before.
I don’t know how much is in there but I’m going to check all my spent carts now and see if they’re not empty. -
I personally would go for colorific but that is because it is the only ink i have ever used and having no issues with the ink i don’t feel the need to experiment with other brands that may give problems. I had a bulk system from new so have never used a cartridge a choice i am very glad i made and even more so in light of what you have discovered.
Steve
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Just checked my carts.
Black and Cyan are empty.
Small amount in the Magenta.
The Yellows though feel like there’s quite a bit in them?? -
Grab a syringe with a steel tip and see what you can get out….. grrrrrrr
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interesting! I have four years of empty cartridges (as I cant find anyone to recycle them on my island) so i might go through the lot and see how much i can get out! Mo they do have a chip that sends the empty signal! I have replaced "empty" cartridges before to finish off prints and it has worked! off to get a syringe now!!!
cheers
Dan
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Dan, can you post up a photo of where exactly you stick the syringe i am intrigued i have loads of empties in my unit
G
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at your own risk the ink level is designed to stop there for a good reason to ensure it don’t run dry.
you can turn on ink empty continue and will continue to print for about another 1.5 – 2mts before stopping handy if it happens halfway through a banner.the cart will be empty but run the risk of problems the choice is yours.
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can i just say do not pump ink in to the carts they must not contain any air else it will find its way in to the ink lines.
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quote Chris Wool:can i just say do not pump ink in to the carts they must not contain any air else it will find its way in to the ink lines.
thats a good point chris, so like you would do with a syringe, make sure there is no air in the syringe when it goes in, mines working fine but monitoring it closely
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Hi Mo,
can you do the photo for george as i havent got the syringe yet? George when you coming to Menorca? I’m getting thirsty!!cheers
Dan
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quote :so like you would do with a syringe, make sure there is no air in the syringe when it goes in
NO just don’t do it.
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Ok, I’m going to post a picture, but as Chris says, please don’t do this on my say so, at least wait to see what happens with my system. Although I should point out that I have been running bulk ink systems and refilling carts for many years now on various printers..
But please only do this if you just want to check the wastage!
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Ok, initially you will get some resistance, this is just the rubber seal inside the cart where the ink is sucked out of, so you will need to use some force. Only do this to check the remaining ink in your carts.
I will also dissect a cart later and take some pictures so that you can see the composition of the cart inside.
I agree with Chris, that you need to have a buffer ink section so that no air gets in to the lines, but 20% of the ink in the cart? C’mon! 😮
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On my Mimaki jv3 i only get 10cc left in my carts when told its empty.
i have sucked out all my ink in my "empty" magenta carts to refill one which was nearly empty to do a job with no problems.
Inside those carts is a plastic foil bag be careful not to Peirce the bag with the needle. -
Is this not one of the reasons that companies are so keen to ‘recylcle’ old carts? There is a built in amount of waste ink in every cart.
john
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I believe there is a little tab on the bottom of the cart nearest the machine which is pushed out by the ink in the bag inside the cart. It is this which tells the machine how much ink is left. It seems to me like a very low tech method and is probably half the reason why the machine is so bad at knowing how much ink is left. Also they can get stuck so it might be worth giving them a wiggle and putting them back in when the machine says a cart is empty. Also I’m sure you could easily fool the machine into thinking it has ink left but as has been said – at your own risk as it could cause lots of problems!
John
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quote John Dorling:I believe there is a little tab on the bottom of the cart nearest the machine which is pushed out by the ink in the bag inside the cart. It is this which tells the machine how much ink is left. It seems to me like a very low tech method and is probably half the reason why the machine is so bad at knowing how much ink is left. Also they can get stuck so it might be worth giving them a wiggle and putting them back in when the machine says a cart is empty. Also I’m sure you could easily fool the machine into thinking it has ink left but as has been said – at your own risk as it could cause lots of problems!
John
Indeed this is a very crude method of ink detection… i have had my printer register no ink when it was at least half full…a quick phone call to my cart supplier and they sent me a new chip as it was only a few weeks old… of course need to keep a very close eye on ink the level.
Does anyone know where new jv3 chips can be bought ? i have two carts that are nearly date expired ..lc and lm the least used ones 🙁
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Hi Andrew
Don’t know what rip you use for the jv3 but if you’re updated to latest Rasterlink there is a facility to extend the end date of cartridges, sorry can’t remember how it is done but used it last year.
Mimaki is same as roland in this respect, I had 15% showing on one colour so went for a long banner and it dropped to zero 2 meters into a 10 meter run so was a little annoyed at the time.
John
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using a bulk ink system so kinda been out the loop on the cart scene. 😀
in the past, when we ran carts. if we we run dry on ink before a delivery arrived and needed to get prints finished. i would just un-clip the cart. neatly and tidy roll the foil bag toward the front of the cart. a bit of tape or a couple of paper clips and clip the cart back closed. back in the machine and your sorted.
i dont think its a case of we are being cheated out of ink as such. i just think there has been zero consideration for "our wasted ink". guess that is kinda cheating us then… god i love to contradict myself. 😕 :lol1:
anyway, the exist hole for the ink isnt tight to the bottom of the cart. its higher up and of course the ink cant flow "up-to" to the exit hole. so rolling the back does this for you. all very unnecessary of course.
speaking to someone earlier today about this from RHG and they said the newer Mimaki machines carts stand vertical? ide guess this is the best way to minimize this happening, also a space saver standing up.
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When the cart shows empty on our xc540 i put them into my VS640 (vertical carts) and they show up with ink in
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quote Robert T Walker:When the cart shows empty on our xc540 i put them into my VS640 (vertical carts) and they show up with ink inThat is a Eureka moment in itself and yet when you think about it makes total sense………………so carts need to be vertical or streamlined towards the front of the cart………….so simple like most good ideas.
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quote Robert Lambie:speaking to someone earlier today about this from RHG and they said the newer Mimaki machines carts stand vertical? ide guess this is the best way to minimize this happening, also a space saver standing up.
so are the new Rolands vertical standing also?
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the old jv3 carts were empty…. it uses a chip counter system based on a mathmatical estimation of how much ink it is using and then the tab flips out to pass the sensor. If the bag for some reason shakes it will trip the sensor.
SO… spirt level up your machine!!!
Also, just weigh the carts with a digital scale instead of using ur recreational syringes
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sorry rob didn’t see your post,
it only seems to be the VS series with vertical carts
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no probs mate, i wasnt aware of any carts being vertical until RHG spotted this thread today in my office and mentioned the mimaki stand vertical. if roland are doing it too then i guess they are at least signs both manufacturers maybe learning from the mistakes. which is good…
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