-
What am I doing wrong when wrapping
Hi Guys,
Every time I try to do a wrap my vinyl prints seem to start lifting and curling up at the edges of the prints. I leave the prints a good 3 days before laminating. I clean the vehicle well all ways. Do you guys put anything on the cars where the edges will go to make a better adhesion.
As I’m getting more and more jobs where customers wants wraps I wan to get it right.
What media do you suggest that works well. I use bio inks and hex-press media at the moment
Hope you can help.
-
19 Replies
-
too much tension on the laminator??? 3 days should be long enough to off gas without affecting the glue?
-
Thanks Dan, I’ll loosen of the roller a bit, Thanks
-
we had the problem of too much tension! do your prints roll up when they are out of the laminator? if they do then it might be a tension problem. I assume you are applying dry?
-
Hi Dan,
Yea I apply dry, and the prints lay flat while on the release liner. I’m use hex press that’s bubble free. Do you think it is that.
-
When you say wrapping do you actually mean wrapping or just applying a digital print?
I would say the two biggest problems people have with any sort of vinyl work is poor preparation and not post heating properly.
If you make sure the surface is squeeky clean before you start and post heat to the manufacturers recommended temperature then you shouldn’t really have any problems.
I always get customers to wash their vans before they drop them off and make sure they know to use the cheapest option if at a car wash as some washes will wax the vehicle as well.
Before I start work I will make sure it is clear of any grease or wax by cleaning with IPA.I have trouble fitting with a heat gun (don’t read this Robert) so I will use a hairdryer to fit graphics to the vehicle as I find this a lot easier and it is normally enough even on deep recesses. Once the job is complete I will always go over it with a heat gun using a digital temperature gun to make sure I have post heated it correctly. On deep recesses I will normally go over them twice just to be on the safe side.
Have you done a wrap course at all because if you haven’t then they are well worth doing from what I have seen and read on the forum.
-
Martin
IPA is a good solvent cleaner but is frowned upon by some,
the argument is, it does not remove wax, merely spreads it around as it evaporates, 3m say their warranty is void unless their prep is used, it is not a solvent, it dissolves the wax and other stuff and stays wet so that the solution can be removed with wipes.
It is paramount to have a clean surface, but does anyone know how to prove the surface is actually clear from contaminates? other than assuming it is?Is there a UV light or something that will show contamination?
Peter
-
Peter, I’ve not heard that before but then again I don’t do a lot of work anymore so maybe something I have missed. I’ve personally never had a problem using IPA, yes it does evaporate pretty quickly but not so quick that you can’t wipe a panel and remove wax and other contamination.
I have never used a lot of 3m media so wouldn’t have been a problem for me personally. I would imagine they only do that to increase their own sales, not saying their cleaner is bad but I doubt it is any better than some other cleaners.As for some way to confirm a surface is clean if there is one then I have never come across it.
-
IPA for me too Martin… 😀
-
Pretty sure 3M say to use Presol and then IPA to remove the Presol.
http://lowencorporation.wordpress.com/2 … car-wraps/
Most failures with wraps come down to three areas.
Preparation
Over Stretching
Lack of Post HeatingThey are the major pitfalls.
-
Thanks for that Link Jason very informative but seems to conflict with what I have been told?
I have been using IPA for years without any problem, but attached is part of an instruction bulletin that was given to me after a product application course at 3M.If 3m say dont use it with their material, I dont think it is just to sell their own product.
I f a wrap fails and IPA has been used then It clearly would be a get out for 3m.
Maybe there is a 3m employee on the boards that could clarify?
Peter
Attachments:
-
Hey Peter maybe with the 380 they changed.
I guess its important to check with your supplier and find out the warranty procedure to make sure your covered and following warranty procedures properly.
My personal procedure is always wash the car general car wash.
Break down the vehicle.
Autoglym 3 Powermax the car and rinse.
Let the car dry overnight.
Use compressed air to get any water out of the rubers etc.
Iso prop the whole car and follow with a clean rag.
Clean surface to work on. -
I recently used some HP Air release Vinyl for a small partial wrap and HPs cleaning instructions suggest IPA at 70% strength mixed with water so it does not evaporate immediately and contaminations can be wiped off.
quote :Cleaning Procedures. HP Air release Vinyl
A clean, dry, and dust-free surface is essential for proper vinyl adhesion. Do not use aggressive,
fast-drying solvents such as acetone, lacquer thinner, or denatured alcohol as they dry too fast and may harm the surface. HP recommends a preliminary cleaning test on a small, inconspicuous area.
The primary keys to successful cleaning are:
• Always choose solutions based on the type of contamination
• Always use a bucket and two towels, one wet and one dry
• Always dry while the surface is still wet—before evaporation
Pour some of the solution into a small bucket. Immerse a small rag (shop towel size) in the solution and wring out the excess. Do not just “wash” the surface but work to get it clean. For stubborn areas, wet and let soak for some time before scrubbing. Once the surface is clean, remove the solution with a clean, dry terry cloth towel before it evaporates. This procedure ensures contaminants are removed, not just relocated on the surface. Fold the drying rag in half several times to create many drying surfaces. When one side is dirty, flip the towel over or refold to expose an unused portion.
Note: Painted walls and barricades may be harmed by standard cleaning procedures. If noticeably dusty or dirty, use a clean towel slightly damp with water, and lightly dry with a separate clean towel.
Below are general recommendations intended to cover the wide variety of uses for HP Air Release Adhesive Gloss Cast Vinyl:
• Use detergent and water to clean and remove excessive dirt and mud—this step is primarily for vehicles (see note below)
• Use Xylene, V&M Naptha, or PrepSol to dissolve adhesive, tar, grease, and wax
• Use 70% Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol as the final rinse to remove dust and all other residues
Note: Moisture that accumulates behind rivets, seams, hinges, handles, moldings, trim, etc. prevents good adhesion. These areas must be dry prior to installation. For maximum efficiency, perform detergent and water washing the day prior to installation and stage vehicles (or other signs/items) in a climate-controlled indoor facility overnight. This will help them dry and acclimate to optimum surface temperature.
A high-pressure air blower connected to an air compressor can accelerate drying in hard-to-reach areas (around door handles, moldings, trim pieces, etc.). For box trucks and trailers, warm the rivets and seams with a propane torch until all liquid is evaporated -
watered down (3 to 1) truck wash, wash, leather, IPA (not the beer) done! never lets me down!
j
-
Avery cleaner. I’ve used it for years. Great stuff.
-
With regard to Johnny’s post above, i’d like to point out that you shouldn’t be using Avery surface cleaner for the application of IJ380, 3M state that you MUST use their surface preperation system for all their wrapping films.
It appears to be a common ‘criticism’ of this cleaner that it leaves a residue.. If dried correctly this isn’t the case. This product is based on petroleum distillate, which has a much higher boiling point than alcohol based products such as IPA, Meths & Avery cleaner etc, and therefore doesnt ‘flash off’ or evaporate, so it is vital that you clean AND dry/remove properly, but it does have far better cleaning properties and removes waxes and residues far better than alcohol based products.
Also, when you leave alcohol to ‘evaporate’ this is in fact also leaving a residue, and as such any contamination cleaned off is simply re-depositing wherever it dries.
If you are getting a residue left with the 3M surface prep then it would indicate that you haven’t dried it properly.As we all know, cleaning is one of the most important steps toward a successful wrap and, in my opinion, the surface prep is the best solution for this, and whilst i agree it may prove to be a slightly longer cleaning process, then the peace of mind it gives me far outweighs the negatives of taking 15 minutes longer per vehicle!
Again, we all have our preferences and are entitled to use what we prefer, but on your issues of IJ380 applying, all controltac products are pressure activated as opposed to pressure sensitive so squeegee pressure is of key importance. If you are getting ‘rashes’ or bubbles then you need to press harder, or perhaps your working conditions aren’t warm enough. Anything less than 15 degrees makes the adhesive rigid, unable to flow and the controltac beads will not be pressed into the adhesive under pressure.
Again, you’re entitled to use whatever film works best for you,but if you are having issues specifically with 3M IJ380 then i hope these points will help.
Happy wrapping!!
-
rapid prep is the one to use without a doubt avery is too solvent all print supplies sell it!!! awesome stuff!!!!
-
isint there a pen that u can use to check surface tension that lets u no that ur clean enough
cant remember where i saw it! :headbang2:
-
http://www.yellotools.us/shop/product_i … ts_id=1204
-
3M suggest solvent based cleaners, not alcohol based cleaners
Log in to reply.