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Isopropyl alcohol
Hi guys, hope this is the right place.
It’s my first post and I’ve a quick question. I’ve just got a litre of Isopropyl alcohol from eBay and, I’m wondering what is the correct water and alcohol mixture I would use for the second clean, prior to sticking the vinyl on? also, do you have different mixtures for different jobs ? I wanna make my own and keep the cost down
Thanks in advance
Shaun
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37 Replies
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We just use it neat.
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I use, and always have used neat IPA. It’s cheap enough bought in bulk (45 litres for about £60 – 96%).
Also saves having to wait on the water evaporating…
As it’s about £5 a litre (delivered) on ebay…and that’ll last at least 2-3 BIG vehicles being generous with it (maybe 10 or more average vans if just as panel wipe)…how low do you need your costs to be?
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Hi David and Ian, thanks for the reply. That’s what I’ve done, eBay £5 a litre. The thing I wasn’t sure of was the mix, now i’ve just put it in a spray bottle as you’re using it neat
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quote Shaun Fahey:Hi David and Ian, thanks for the reply. That’s what I’ve done, eBay £5 a litre. The thing I wasn’t sure of was the mix, now i’ve just put it in a spray bottle as you’re using it neatI would never use this stuff in a spray bottle, any of the mist from the spray gets in your eyes and you’ll be sorry 😮
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Never used it except in a spray bottle Warren. Not gone to eye hospital yet! (tempting fate!)
Matt
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I USED to put meths in a spray bottle – then I switched to IPA.
No problems either way except it eats the gubbings on SOME spray bottles.
Since the switch – always apply it to the cloth/paper I’m using rather than the vehicle. (Slosh or spray on the cloth)
Be prepared to get hammered out of your mind if using in an enclosed space…and it nips like hell in cuts.
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Thanks guys
Another quick question I’ve got is, what you are using for application fluid for a wet install. I’ve been using the Action Tac but its 12 quid a bottle. I’ve not mixed any yet but I picked up some baby shampoo and I’m assuming a few drops in litre of distilled water but, how much is a few drops ?
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My guys have tried loads of application fluids but always go back to just plain old tap water and a couple of squirts of washing up liquid. How much depends on what they are fitting to and the ambient temperature.
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For any solvent spraying like meths or Isopropyl alcohol i use and can recommend the 1L pump spray bottle from Wurth (part no 0891 501 715)
http://www.avantichem.com.au/product_in … 09e77bcff3
It’s used all over in aplications ranging from motorsport to garden use worldwide.
Alex.
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quote Shaun Fahey:Thanks guysAnother quick question I’ve got is, what you are using for application fluid for a wet install. I’ve been using the Action Tac but its 12 quid a bottle. I’ve not mixed any yet but I picked up some baby shampoo and I’m assuming a few drops in litre of distilled water but, how much is a few drops ?
We do alot of window tinting in buildings, vehicle also, and only use water and babysoap / non-perfumed. we use that on vinyls when wet applying.
You have to try yourself, course it depends on the substrate and ambient temperature.
Its very different to tint outdoor in 12 °C on a cloudy day than in direct sunlight an 30 °C. Normal use 2-3 drops of soap i 1 liter of water. BUT i have been using upto 20ml pr 5 liter water. -
Applying outdoors the spray is good and I water it down to about 50/50 for degreasing and it evaporates just fine.
Bought five liters ages ago and its only now just about to run out.
Shampoo bottle are good as well, the ones with the wee lift up bit for squirting.
A squirt of washing up liquid in water for wet applications and usualy make the top wet as well before using squeeqie to cut friction, especialy if not using application tape.
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Thanks for all the input guys, really helpful, thank you
quote James Martin:cut friction, especialy if not using application tape.on a side note, what’s "cut friction" ?
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When a squeegee makes contact with vinyl/application tape it creates a friction. Wetting the vinyl/application tape cuts the friction and makes a smooth application.
I’m pretty sure Rob has a mathematical equation for this!!!
Matt
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Hi All
I have been mixing 1part iso 2 part water for wet application and found it to be just fine, is there any reason not to do this ? as i say it appears to be working fine and dries out quicker than baby shampoo and waterKev
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Guys, I respect we all do what it takes to get the vinyl in place with as less hassle and better finish as possible. but i honestly believe DRY application is so much faster, better finished and maximizes the vinyls true performance.
As for wrapping i would shake my head and walk away if any sort of wet fluid was even being considered.
If Wet application is a must!
for general sign and vehicle work, flat panels and gentle waves in panels. i would suggest Rapid-tac 1 & Rapid-tac 2. this has been on the market for many years and even gets used in freezing cold temperatures. (check the spec on what should be used where, as it was years ago i was sent this stuff)The problem with water, diluted or not. it must dry out.
Once vinyl is in place after a wet application, that is where you help ends and ALL your problems start…
once the fitter has expelled as much moister as possible from under the vinyl using his squeegee, he now has to try and get the application tape off. in warm weather this isnt a big issue, but does still add much more time to the installation. you still run the risk of letters sliding off, tape whiping back and tearing or damaging letters. loosing dots from letter "i" and all sorts… not forgetting the "no-no" of crossing a recessed area with moisture in it.
what about fitting in a cold workshop. then driving out into the street… the moisture is still in there, under those letters… days will pass and ist still in there. but the vinyl has already begun to shrink as it has no proper hold on the vehicle.
fit a vehicle like this in the dead of winter and your guaranteed failed applications left and right.i remember one winter a team of fitters arriving to do work for "the same company" i was doing work for, different contract though.
they were blistring fast. they did 4 lorries in the time it took me to do two. they applied wet, i applied dry. im talking big trucks, full wrapped. [flat panels] anyway… they kept glancing over and sniggering and all sorts, even some of the mechanics in the yard had a pop at me for the speed they were working at in comparison to me.
there was no application tape, this was digital wraps hung like wallpaper, fitted outside on a blue sky cold sunny day.
i arrived the next day to do another two trucks… the company that was in the day before was already there. the boss’s all out, standing giving them an earful…
the 4 trucks they had wrapped the day before…. at least 60% of the panels were sliding off each the trucks, some holding huge blisters of water and more… the job was a right off… i remember walking by them all on the way to the toilet as they desperately tried to make things at least look right. needless to say i turned and gave them a wee smirk…my point is, do not become those guys… learn to install properly. we all invest in new machinery to help increase profit by producing in-house.
this is a way to increase profit, your labour time is lowered greatly, you do not spend on application fluids, your work has a better finish and the lifetime of your materials is maximised. your ticking all the boxes!those panels fell off because the fitters fitted in freezing cold weather. sunny or not, there was no heat in the air. by the time sun fell early afternoon, it got colder. the moisture trapped behind the huge panels of vinyl began to freeze. as it froze it expanded. when expanding it pushed any sort of contact the vinyl had with the GRP body away…. next day when sun up and tempretures rose again, the trapped ice will melt and the weight of all those panels on the side with little or no adhesion fails and they began sliding down the sides of the trucks. those panels that had some adhesion, the moisture headed south and began to pocket lower down the panels. creating huge water blisters.
obviously this is vinyl application failure on a BIG scale…. but this was a BIG company with a BIG contract and now a BIG headache to boot! 😉back to the Rapid-Tac….
Rapid-tac application fluid has stimulants in the fluid. it also has that bubbly liquid fluid feel to it that folk like in their water mixes. a light mist is all that is needed… float it into place and with a stiff nylon squeegee expell as much liquid as you can from below it.
the stimulant in the fluid helps activate the adhesive to promote adhesion as soon as possible, allowing the application tape to be removed much sooner. [water does not and cannot do this obviously] when the tape is removed the moisture still needs to dry out just like water but the stimulants in the fluid continue to promote adhesion.
STILL…. i do NOT and would not ever use it for vehicle wrapping. I’m simply mentioning rapid-tac as an alternative to soapy water for general flat panel work. IF, wet application is a must…do not get me wrong, i am sure that many application fluids n the market "might" have stimulants and the like in them. but Rapid-tac being the one on the market from a long time ago, certainly leads the way i think.
From memory it was All Print Supplies i got sent some from…
http://www.allprint.co.uk/ancillary_pro … erview.htm
as i said, check the spec on it as i believe one stimulates adhesion faster than the other. so maybe an idea to request sample bottles. (that’s IF they still do them)As for the Isoprop… I wouldnt buy it from ebay… i contacted a local company that supplies our bin-bags, toilet rolls, tar & glue remover etc asked for them to get it in for me and i would call it off as and when needed.
the trouble you "might" find, is its clear, and it is easy dilutted.
we had a company slightly further away from us. we would buy 25ltr drums in… the drums come with its own "pump valve" so you just go up with your refillable bottle and pump it till its full, rather than having to tip a large bottle over into a small bottle.
anyway… after about our third drum i noticed it no longer "easily" took pen marks off signs when lettering. the smell wasnt "just as strong" and it may have been my imagination, but i didnt think it dried just as fast.
when i switched suppliers i made a point in telling him why i was switching and to let him know it is noticible when its been dilluted.
im sure the ebay sellers arent doing this, but me being me, just dont like taking the chance.something else maybe worth considering… onbviously i have no clue who you are buying from. but our guy says that one of the problems in distributing highly flammble fluids is the H&S on transporting it. its not cheap and must be done correctly….
warren does have a point on the spray bottles. we were once removing huge panels of vinyl from trucks. spraying it with tar & glue remover and leaving it to bite into the adhesive residue… as i quickly sprayed a section of a truck, one of our lads walked around behind me from the rear of the truck and the wind carried it right into his eyes. it did really hurt him and he was a good 10 minutes washing and bathing them before he could carry on. i recon it would be much worse if the lad wasnt wearing glasses!
anyway… im babbling now, probably wondered way off topic as i normally do. but hope theres something in this you take as useful.
:lol1: :lol1: :lol1:
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Thanks Robert that was interesting. I’m just getting things figured out at the moment, its early days but, I’ve had half a dozen successful install and, I know what you’re talking about with getting the app tape off. I made a big mistake on one graphic, i installed wet with clear tape, it took a while getting it off.
Anyways, thanks for the posts chaps.
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Rob, long post but all true! You are my new God!
If wrapping wet, laugh at the fitter and wait the job to come back. Quids in!
Matt
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Hi Guys
Just a foot note to this I agree completely with what Rob and one or two others who have commented and would like to add my bit.
Iso prop usually if bought from a chemist is diluted 90/10 i find that if you by some of the cheaper alternatives you may not find a label on them stating what the dilution is. We have found that some definitely take longer to dry suggesting a greater dilution…..
I would wonder if you should use a diluted iso mix as an application fluid in case it deteriorates the glue in any way ?
When pressed to use a wet application we use a dilution of 1 part meths to 6 of water this is actually recommended for certain films. have been using it for years try it think youll be pleasantly surprised and if using on glass on a hot day or in xtreme heat a drop or three of a well known baby shampoo the one that dosent sting there eyes sorts it……. Comments after you tried it please.. lol
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Iso from a chemist….?
New to me Robert!
Good tip on the windows tho…I’ll let you no!
Matt
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Lots of stuff can be got from a chemist…
anyway, we use water in a spray (H&S cough)
We clean surface with meths or sprayed water
wipe off with window squeegee
spray with water on glue side and surface
apply with easesome can apply dry but generally wet between us all, the risk of screwing up a print is greater and not worth the risk.
Not forgetting Laminator (and the rolls roller) is a dry applicator!
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most chemists will not stock ipa, if they do, it is extremely expensive for small quantities.
Dave, you need to read Rob’s post, but the thread has gone a bit of topic OP was about IPA not wet or dry app!H&Should not be an issue if using chemicals, as long as the required precautions are taken and your staff trained in the correct use.
IPA is a good cleaner, and is better than "blue" meths, white industrial meths is acceptable, but like IPA, solvents can leave residues from whatever it has dissolved,
I find that a slow or non evaporating cleaner like rapid prep is far better, it holds the "dirt, silicones, wax and other stuff in suspension so it can be removed with the cleaning wipe,
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quote Peter Normington:Dave, you need to read Rob’s post, but the thread has gone a bit of topic OP was about IPA not wet or dry app!quote Shaun Fahey:Thanks guys, Another quick question I’ve got is, what you are using for application fluid for a wet install. I’ve been using the Action Tac but its 12 quid a bottle. I’ve not mixed any yet but I picked up some baby shampoo and I’m assuming a few drops in litre of distilled water but, how much is a few drops ?
Peter, the original poster also asked another question, as you can see above!
which i addressed along with other questions asked, as well as giving my own experiences i thought helpful, all in one reply… -
Sorry Rob, missed that bit 😳
Peter -
I read some of Rob’s post, but it was too long and I was falling asleep, this is why my replies are sometimes not complete 😀
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quote Dave Rowland:I read some of Rob’s post, but it was too long and I was falling asleep, this is why my replies are sometimes not complete 😀
This is why your "replies" are not complete?
Are you falling asleep typing your own posts Dave? :lol1: -
quote Robert Lambie:quote Dave Rowland:I read some of Rob’s post, but it was too long and I was falling asleep, this is why my replies are sometimes not complete 😀
This is why your “replies” are not complete?
Are you falling asleep typing your own posts Dave? :lol1:Quote button helps to fill out
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quote Peter Normington:I find that a slow or non evaporating cleaner like rapid prep is far better, it holds the “dirt, silicones, wax and other stuff in suspension so it can be removed with the cleaning wipe, Peter
Thanks for that tip Peter, nice one 🙂
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quote Dave Rowland:Quote button helps to fill out
fill out what dave, you fell asleep again mate? :sleep:
:lol1: 😉
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im tired now, went to bed at 4am after Call of Duty big announcement, damn Pacific TIme! argh
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quote Dave Rowland:im tired now, went to bed at 4am after Call of Duty big announcement, damn Pacific TIme! argh
guess you must be working flat out this weather mate? 😉 :lol1:
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ISO is used in the medical profession Matt. It has always been available from chemists but it is becoming harder to obtain through that channel. Loads on ebay though.
Peter
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quote Robert Lambie:quote Dave Rowland:im tired now, went to bed at 4am after Call of Duty big announcement, damn Pacific TIme! argh
guess you must be working flat out this weather mate? 😉 :lol1:
I am, working afternoons till friggin early hours then someone takes over
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thats nothing, try full day shifts then onto back shifts that end in the early hours for ten years on the trott. 😉 :lol1:
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http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/acatalog/CFS_Ca … l_534.html
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Hey, this is Mike, over in the U.S. I was just reading this thread, and was curious as to why ISO alcohol was so expensive, and seemingly hard to get over there?
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Hey Guys. Sorry i’ve not said thanks for all the new postings since i last looked.
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Note of caution, all chemicals used should be done with caution, i know we are all fed up of H&S, but a lot of people are unaware of what damage can be caused, read the labels!!!
Did you know inhalation of METHS, yes we have all used loads of it causes irreversable damage to the lungs, I Have not used it for 2 years now and still get by. Also always use latex gloves when using strong chemicals
Sorry to be so PC
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