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Some questions on wrappin and material?
Hi
Started the job today and it was an absolute nightmare. The grab from the vinyl was unbelievable only had to touch the surface and it was stuck – no chance of repositioning
To even lift it back off even before any pressure caused stretching.
I had a guy with me who has had limited wrap experience and he hated the material.
So I’m left wondering what’s going on, I may not have done any wrapping but I’ve worked soley with vinyl for over 20 years.
I’m looking for reasons, followed all the application rules as per their DVD
So what could it be, where am I going wrong?Is there a possibility that the company that did the laminating used too much pressure and ‘killed’ the repositioning element?
I still have work to do on this so I think I’ll bring in an experienced wrapper, to prove or disprove that it’s me.
I’ll also ring Hexis in the morning and have a chat with them.
Can’t think what else to do.
Anyone had similar experiences.
Sorry about the long post – it’s been a long and dissapointing day.
John
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10 Replies
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I forgot to mention.
The panels were printed separately with a 50mm bleed – door wing etc.
After completing the door and fitting the wing, the bleed overlap onto the completed door ripped off the laminate and the print from the door.
Can’t be right can it?This hadn’t been pressure applied just as it lay.
John
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John, you have had hot weather over there?
I’m not familiar with hexis, I doubt the lamination would be an issue is the repositioning element but;
If the print was not fully dried before laminating or applying, the glue will be super adhesive. It happens will all materials as the solvents leech thru the vinyl and change the structure of the glue.
Once the solvents have evaporated, the glue should go back to what it was designed for.
Laying down too much ink will do the same thing.
The heat will also give you less time to work with most vinyls. I was amazed when I was in the UK at how much easier vinyls went down on to vehicles when I was there in April.
Hope that helps.
How long between drying and laminating?
If the ink was not cured, it may also explain why the laminate came off, or the laminate was not matched to the vinyl.
Cheers
Shane -
Adding to Shane: Outgassing properlly. Hang your prints or loosely wound on rolls stored vertically off the ground are the correct ways of out gassing. Just leaving the prints rolled up on a core doesn’t mean they are outgassing.
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Hi Guys, thank for the replies.
I wasn’t hot so I think we can rule that out.
The period between printing & laminating was approx. 16 hours, do you think this was long enough?
They were hung, up not on the roll.
Thanks
John
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Most manufacturers will stipulate minimum 24 hours. That’s in ideal conditions. It will depend on ink saturation as well.
It’s always best to leave it as long as you possible can.
Extra heater units and blowers on your printer will aid in reducing the time needed.
But yeh your cutting it extremely thin with 16 hours.
Do a test. Grab some unprinted vinyl and apply it and see the difference.
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Hi Mate,
If that is 16 hours overnight, then yes, I think it would be attributing to your problems. There is no or little evaporation or drying in the evening air, so it would not be the same as thru the day.
I try and leave wrap material at least 24 hours, but 48 if I can print it far enough in advance.
As Jason says, a test of the material unprinted and printed will give you a good idea of what its like.
Its a good idea to smell the surface of the print before you laminate. If it still has an odor, then its not outgassed fully. Especially if it is a strong smell.
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Totally agree with Shane and Jason, I would be 90% positive that the solvent has not dissipated and that has corrupted the adhesive and made it really grabby, we have seen this many times when we used to outsource our prints as the supplier would always be in a rush to get the prints out the door on time.
16 hours during the day would be just ok using a material like Avery 1900 but I would presume the Helix is similar to the Arlon and 3M CAST as it has the aeration system which seems to need a bit more time to dissipate given that it has more pockets to trap the solvent.
Hope your day is better today, when we went through this we just kept saying to ourselves ‘look how much we are learning’ and it never happened again (well maybe once more ;o)). My advise would be to get to know the feeling of the adhesive before print and after print & lam and get to know the smell before and after that way you will always know if something is wrong.
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Hi All
Been on the phone with various people this morning and think I have a reason – but no solution.
I printed this job over last weekend and tried to get the correct profile from the Hexis web site but couldn’t find it.
They only had the profile for Versaworks Rip and we use Wasatch.
Unable to wait till Monday we used a cast Avery profile and I’m sure it’s over inking.
Tried a sample of unprinted material this morning and it’s perfect.
So been on the phone to Hexis for the right profile and they don’t have it for the Wasatch Rip – They’re on the phone to France to see what I can use.
Anyone suggest a compatible profile for the Hexpress vinyl.
Good to know it wasn’t me, doesn’t help being unable to print though.
Why did we ever get into this industry?
John
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I highly doubt its an ink saturation problem on its own.
Most profiles will limit to 400% anyways at the highest and being a cast film it should at least be able to handle that.
Can you do a test?
Can you print a metre. Hang it up to dry leave it for 48 hours then laminate it and apply it?
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Use the Roland ‘Generic Vinyl II profile’ – RIPC if you have it, it’s a great profile for most CAST Vinyl and gives you a good PMS match, if you get a mottle effect as its printing you need to crank up the heat. Over-inking may be some of the problem but the time before lam is the main one, over inking just exasperates the issue. (I’ve never used Hexis so these are my best ideas from using other cast vinyls)
Let me know how you get on as I was looking into Hexis recently.
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