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Lots of advise please
Hi
I’m new to the forum and new to he trade.
I have never seen a vehicle wrapped or have any knowledge of materials to use for this application.
This would be a new venture to add on to my existing business, it would compliment what I already do and make my warehouse more productive.In particular I want to do vehicle wrapping, cars mainly but if my budget and printer stretches Id do vans.
Will all printer/Plotters be capable of making these wraps.
Which are the good models to go for Roland etc
What would you suggest as to widths for the printer.Who are the good companies to buy refurb machines from?
Whats the average cost of materials to wrap a average family car?
Just trying to gauge how many cars to get money back. -
30 Replies
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Why not introduce yourself first Gary, might be good to find out a little about you before we impart our wisdom upon you 😉
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Hi Gary,
If you’re are new to the trade, I think you may be in for a few suprises.
learning to wrap, is not a five minute job.
What trade are you in at the moment, not being funny but you sound like someone who has had a quote to wrap your cars, and thought "bloody hell, I can do that for a quarter of the cost"Peter
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Not all printers can do wraps. Alot of the UV printers can’t the ink cracks. Pigmnet printers wont last long.
You need a solvent printer.
All the major brands have good models.
The widest you can go and the widest you can apply.You will probably need to do ten vehicle to get your money back for the printer portion only. This won’t recoup your labour, overheads or materials for the jobs. So probably 20-30 wraps before you become profitable in terms of recouping your money and making a profit.
Don’t forget you need a laminator also and vehicle outline package and software etc etc.
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quote Neil Davey:Why not introduce yourself first Gary, might be good to find out a little about you before we impart our wisdom upon you 😉Hi Neil its now in the intro section
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Not sure what your garage is like but you need a CLEAN working environment. Having the temperature controlled is a bonus as well.
Just for your info I’ve been doing it for about 2 years and I’ve got about 20 full/partial wraps under my belt and I’m still learning a crap load and trying to minimise my mistakes.
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quote Peter Normington:Hi Gary,
If you’re are new to the trade, I think you may be in for a few suprises.
learning to wrap, is not a five minute job.
What trade are you in at the moment, not being funny but you sound like someone who has had a quote to wrap your cars, and thought “bloody hell, I can do that for a quarter of the cost”Peter
Hi Peter
Definitely not the case
see my intro thread in other section -
quote Jason Xuereb:Not sure what your garage is like but you need a CLEAN working environment. Having the temperature controlled is a bonus as well.
Just for your info I’ve been doing it for about 2 years and I’ve got about 20 full/partial wraps under my belt and I’m still learning a crap load and trying to minimise my mistakes.
Yeah garages can be dusty.
We have stock on mezzanine, and then have built separate rooms, so engine building in one, engine washing and prep in another, engineering, polishing and flocking in another.
We are looking at building a separate room for the chassis dyno which will have extraction, so this room could be used as it would be very clean and dust free with the extraction.
but the garage and ramp area are also kept very clean.
The garage is also heatedAppreciate that its not just learnt in five mins.
Are there any good courses to get my guy on?With the cars we would save a couple of K a year just in vinal signs, I already have the labour working there. The race cars would use wrapping as opposed to the usual spray job and vinyl lettering they have been having. So its just making the printer pay for itself and turning it profitable as an additional business from under one roof.
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Hey Gary if your going to start moving spray jobs to wraps I’d say go for it. Being race cars they’d get damaged easily so the longevity of the wrap isn’t a major concern. You just don’t want it lifting into your intakes or radiators etc during a race.
Seems like you have the right environment and work for it.
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quote Jason Xuereb:Not all printers can do wraps. Alot of the UV printers can’t the ink cracks. Pigmnet printers wont last long.
You need a solvent printer.
All the major brands have good models.
The widest you can go and the widest you can apply.You will probably need to do ten vehicle to get your money back for the printer portion only. This won’t recoup your labour, overheads or materials for the jobs. So probably 20-30 wraps before you become profitable in terms of recouping your money and making a profit.
Don’t forget you need a laminator also and vehicle outline package and software etc etc.
What are the good laminators, or am I best getting a laminator to suit the printer/plotter?
Is it possible to get a good printer and a cutter?
Where can I get the vehicle outline package, though that may end up being usless as most of our cars we prepare are the same car but with many different body kits we it.
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Gary
If you Know nothing about running a garage, and nothing about wraps.
first thing you need to do is employ someone who does, I have done both, and by the time you have learned either, you will probably have lost a lot of money, You dont need to know how its done to make it pay, as long as you have staff that can do it, trying to do it all yourself is not (in my opinion) good, especially as you point out, in this economic climate.
far better to do a couple of things right yourself, and sub out the other stuff to experts.Peter
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Hey Gary,
Look at Rolands Veracamm or XC540.
Mimaki also have a print and cut now.
Or you could go printer with separate plotter.
Laminators get the same width as your printer. If your doing full wraps a laminator that goes roll to roll is handy. Double rollers is also good for tracking and stopping walk about.
Vehicle outlines are probably useless I thought you were getting into the general wrap market.
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The 6 or 8 internet / mail order sites Ive run for last 5 years so thats not a problem for me, I also write my own e-commerce sites and forum.
New sites are being built for the garage, flocking service and I guess later the wrapping.The competitor that Ive just bought, Ive retained some of the original staff and the ex owner is paid to run it as manager, as Im not always there. Quite often Im out looking at new work, suppliers etc.
So far its worked well, the ex owner Ive known for 7 years and him and the ex staff member still employed by us I trust implicitly.
But I know what you are saying.The flocking and wrapping is something we get done, but can make a business of it and save ourselves money.
I need to make the warehouse space pay for itself. Bit of a natural progression in to another service to offer our customers. -
Hey Gary,
Your going to find it pretty hard to get advice from professionals who do this so you can make your other business more successful. Its kind of us asking on your side of the fence how to run a garage and do all the services you provide so we can save money to utilize our warehouse space.
Personally I don’t really care just giving you a view of what I think many people will give you.
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quote Jason Xuereb:Hey Gary,
Look at Rolands Veracamm or XC540.
Mimaki also have a print and cut now.
Or you could go printer with separate plotter.
Laminators get the same width as your printer. If your doing full wraps a laminator that goes roll to roll is handy. Double rollers is also good for tracking and stopping walk about.
Vehicle outlines are probably useless I thought you were getting into the general wrap market.
Thanks
I’ll google the names and see what is about.We may get asked for general cars as we start to get established and start advertising trough our own forum and web sites, but to start and good for learning will be the cars we already work with, and generally no 2 cars are standard.
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quote Jason Xuereb:Hey Gary,
Your going to find it pretty hard to get advice from professionals who do this so you can make your other business more successful. Its kind of us asking on your side of the fence how to run a garage and do all the services you provide so we can save money to utilize our warehouse space.
Personally I don’t really care just giving you a view of what I think many people will give you.
I understand what you say Jason.
I thought this was part of the forum, its a professional foum only so what else is it for, helping others in same boat, I doubt I be nicking shed loads of business from others. Unless on my doorstep in Reading most wont ever get to hear my name on a quote.
We have approx 10 specialists in UK fixing the rotary cars, and we all can call each other to help solve problems.
perhaps all are not as friendly as you.
Its appreciated. -
Thought Id add we have also for a while taken on 1 off commissions with an airbrush artist and a sculptor does engraving for us on some of the cars parts, so we are known for unusual works and have artists to hand.
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quote Jason Xuereb:Hey Gary,
Your going to find it pretty hard to get advice from professionals who do this so you can make your other business more successful. Its kind of us asking on your side of the fence how to run a garage and do all the services you provide so we can save money to utilize our warehouse space.
Personally I don’t really care just giving you a view of what I think many people will give you.
I must admit Jason, it does go a bit against the grain, when a new member asks for advice with a view to doing work in house, that needs a long learning curve, I have nothing against Gary, indeed he appears to be a bit of an entrepeneur, and Gary, I wish you well in your business .
Jason, I wonder if you would be as free with your advice, to a total stranger who had similar circumstances to Gary, but was based 10 miles from you?
Ok I am having a rant, and I know that if Gary has Paid for uksg Membership, he will be able to gain all the knowledge he needs, without even making a post……
Perhaps Rob should Change the slogan under the uksg.com to
"Created by signmakers, for anyone that cares to pay the fee"sorry a bit harsh,
But I still feel it a bit OTT when a first time poster, asks for all the information, without a small intro and even maybe a bit of polite chat first.
Gary, nothing personal, but I doubt if someone walked into your office and just said " how can I build a business like yours" you would start to advise them without at least knowing a bit about them?
Peter
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You are welcome to come on board and join in gary… and not trying to sound disrespectful here but i would sub the work out till your core business is booming, everyone has their place and the money is coming in thick. then by all means pull someone aside and tell them this is their new area, [i personally would start one with at least some experience] send them on some courses at the Roland academy etc buy your printer, your materials, laminator and cutter and give it a go… however, you are dabbling in a specialist area of the sign trade and there is a minefield of things to learn and that comes with experience, it wont come overnight, trust me on that. your not just trying to wrap, your also just starting out printing for wraps etc
i certainly wouldn’t dedicate an area of our workshop to fixing cars and hand one of our lads a manual and expect him to pay the allocated floorspace, wages, materials and machinery. but what do i know? i just don’t like the phrase, "jack of all trades, master of none".
just for the record, there are dozens of UKSB members in the reading area…
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hi Gary
just a little note it will cost the best part of £20,000 to set up to do wraps and you will bin many hundreds of pounds worth of expensive vinyl, in the first few months.
one of the problems is that less experienced persons see wraps as a quick buck when compared to a experienced outlet, who knows what to charge to make the effort worthwhile.
best of luck you have enough on your plate with the new garage
go on prove us wrong 😉
chris
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quote Peter Normington:I must admit Jason, it does go a bit against the grain, when a new member asks for advice with a view to doing work in house, that needs a long learning curve, I have nothing against Gary, indeed he appears to be a bit of an entrepeneur, and Gary, I wish you well in your business .
Jason, I wonder if you would be as free with your advice, to a total stranger who had similar circumstances to Gary, but was based 10 miles from you?
Ok I am having a rant, and I know that if Gary has Paid for uksg Membership, he will be able to gain all the knowledge he needs, without even making a post……
sorry a bit harsh,
But I still feel it a bit OTT when a first time poster, asks for all the information, without a small intro and even maybe a bit of polite chat first.
Gary, nothing personal, but I doubt if someone walked into your office and just said ” how can I build a business like yours” you would start to advise them without at least knowing a bit about them?
Peter
Hi Peter no offence taken, I understand to a small degree. But does this mean you dont offer any advise to anyone on forum, as they are all doing it in house
I guess Jason was just showing support to someone that wants to run a professional side to his business, its something I would have gone down the route of so why not ask on a professional forum advise, or is the forum not here for advise, Im sure Jason would not be as narrow minded to think that because 1 new guy near him or not starts a business he is going to lose business from it.
Competition can be good, if your not good at your then maybe you might lose out, but if you are good at what you do you could pick up the jobs from that competitorAnyone would think Ive asked for your database, if its all here, whats your problem, you have a very easy chioce, dont post at all, then I cant steel all your business
I must put my hands up, it was rude of me and I should get to know a few first, sometimes Im a bit gun-ho
Well not asked for any personal information, nor what will make me successful and steel all the business local to me, I asked about machines and approx running cost, most starting a business would do.
You are welcome to my office anytime and I will tell you approx what machine you will need to start your garage, there are no secrets in that.
Ive already stated that amongst the handful of specialist in the UK and even in OZ and USA where we trade, most engineers do help one another with problem solving and advise.
Why did you join this forum
Complaining on posts is a bit like watching the TV program then complaining about the swearing.No offence taken, just thought that was part of what a forum was for.
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Hi Gary,
Not sure if your still after advice on wrapping, but i thought id give you my experience….
In my company we have around 14 staff, 2 of those have 70 years of knowledge in the signage trade, and the Dave is 56 and been working for the company since 15.
This guy can manipulate standard Avery 700 series for small wrapping jobs on certain aspects of a vehicle, but having toyed with several other materials, largely wrapping vinyls, we are struggling and really need to take part in a professional wrapping course.
As we are a busy company, time is money and i cannot quite commit time or money for a pro-course, just yet.
And as other people have said, please take your time and get to know your materials inside out.
Other than that, welcome!
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mod-edit please read board rules
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Peter N, I have to agree with you, well said mate.
Nick.
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Hi Ian
Thanks for your constructive comments, its appreciated.We have installed simple vinals to cars for a short while, and agree the more practise the better and have noticed the difference between vinals used.
I guess its bite the bullet get a reasonable machine and practice. In our own cars it wont be to critical and a good place to practise. As its also new its also a good time for us to send myself and our new lad to get a course in.
In a perfect world, if it was too busy or not skilled in enough I could just employ a new guy for the vinyl work, perhaps thats something I should consider. Employ a guy to do the job and build it from there. If they are around, dont know enough yet to know how specialist wrapping is or how easy to find the right employee would be with that skill.
Perhaps that may be your route, employ a skilled wrapper, might increase your business and save on training and time out.
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quote Robert Lambie:You are welcome to come on board and join in gary… and not trying to sound disrespectful here but i would sub the work out till your core business is booming, everyone has their place and the money is coming in thick. then by all means pull someone aside and tell them this is their new area, [i personally would start one with at least some experience] send them on some courses at the Roland academy etc buy your printer, your materials, laminator and cutter and give it a go… however, you are dabbling in a specialist area of the sign trade and there is a minefield of things to learn and that comes with experience, it wont come overnight, trust me on that. your not just trying to wrap, your also just starting out printing for wraps etc
i certainly wouldn’t dedicate an area of our workshop to fixing cars and hand one of our lads a manual and expect him to pay the allocated floorspace, wages, materials and machinery. but what do i know? i just don’t like the phrase, “jack of all trades, master of none”.
just for the record, there are dozens of UKSB members in the reading area…
Hi Robbie
Youre to blame for this, you make it look so dam easy LOL 🙂I do understand its not a job someone can just pick up, there arent many jobs anywhere that can be just picked up, and I certainly wouldnt just give my lad a manual and get him on a customers car.
We have the Artwork, and graphics capabilities sorted, I guess we need the time or as you say an experienced employee to get the ball rolling.
It maybe that to start we should get them made outside and start to gradually install as the training gets in place, unless we employ the experience.
Its why I came to the forum this sort of advise and to find out pitfalls and costs to determine its viability.
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quote Chris Wool:hi Gary
just a little note it will cost the best part of £20,000 to set up to do wraps and you will bin many hundreds of pounds worth of expensive vinyl, in the first few months.
one of the problems is that less experienced persons see wraps as a quick buck when compared to a experienced outlet, who knows what to charge to make the effort worthwhile.
best of luck you have enough on your plate with the new garage
go on prove us wrong 😉
chris
Hi Chris
Thanks for the approx costs, I had budgeted for about 10k, but had based mine on 2nd hand, as a starter did not see the point in new equipment until producing lots of product from it, 2nd is good for learning and easier to upgrade if necessary.
I understand your comment about the less experienced not appreciating the costs, thats why I came here. If I get good advise on costs on machinery and materials I can work out what to charge, this has to earn money and would have no plans to self myself cheap, there’s no future in no profit. If I do this it would become a serious part of our business.
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quote Gary Marks:It maybe that to start we should get them made outside and start to gradually install as the training gets in place, unless we employ the experience.That’s the way I did it. And if I was starting a garage, or any other business, the first thing I would do is to hire experienced people. I certainly am not going to crawl underneath cars myself. Done that and still got the scars.
Never mind wrapping, or even plain cut vinyl graphics, our work is not rocket science but, by the same token, not as easy as it looks and you need lots of practice and experience to make even a half reasonable job. I employ good fitters, who have been on the courses, but still avoid wrap work wherever I can. Only yesterday morning Peter convinced a customer to have six vans sprayed rather than wrap them.
With all due respect to you Gary, when I joined this board it was for professionals to help each other out, and I had to convince Rob that I was a bona fide signmaker before even being granted access. Now I know that things might have moved on a bit from there, and I have listened to both sides of the argument, but I still feel that that basic tenet should hold true. Now, although I am quite happy to help newcomers who show some signs of commitment to the industry, and we have some excellent examples on here, I do get a bit hacked off at people who pop up demanding instant answers to their questions and feel that they are entitled free of charge to the knowledge that it has taken some of us many years to acquire. Sorry, but an education here is a privilege, not a right.
UKSB is probably as close as we get to a trade body. Try ringing Corgi and asking them how to fix your gas boiler.
Show some commitment, take out a membership, maybe even come to SignUK, buy a couple of beers and let people get to know you, and you will undoubtedly get more co-operation.
Sorry for the rant. It’s late, I’m tired, and I can’t sleep. 🙁
added on edit: I’ve just seen that you’ve applied for membership. Good man, that’s a step in the right direction and, if you intend to make a living in this game, is probably the best money you’ll ever spend. 😀
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Hi John
I pretty much agree with what you say.In our garage we employ fully trained mechanics, the garage has 15 years experience and it has mechanics that have specialised in what they do for 25 yeras.
But if the signing of cars took off we would employ a fully trained new member but as its new and mainly our cars or race cars we can afford to use our guy we want to train.
I never said it would be over night.I came on here, paid my money as its good to belong to a trade body with the intention of learning a new skill and developing my business further, we are already dabbling but want to be more professional and make it part of our living.
Ive just read through the start of this thread and cant see anywhere where I have asked for you guys to train me, or made any demands. All I asked for was advise on a decent printer, and suppliers of materials, and maybe a rough cost of covering a car, so at least I could make a decision of how much profit I could expect to earn from a job.
I joined a forum to ask questions and thats all i did ask, anyone not happy with my questions had the option to keep all this fantastic advise Im getting to themselves.I can shop around with suppliers and get all these questions answered so no one is giving any thing away. No one has parted with the secret of there success.
Last night I gave a thread an insight in to Actinic, Im no professional but have used it for 5 years and can help with setting up and tips, but hell why should I now.
To be honest I’d willingly accept a refund on the subscription and I’ll just speak with suppliers on costs and sign up for some courses. I dont NEED you, but its nice to work with FRIENDLY knowledgeable people, if the forum is just about banter and patting one another on the back with pictures of there work then its not for me.
Can a forum please close this thread as its serving absolutely no purpose.
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quote Gary Marks:Last night I gave a thread an insight in to Actinic, Im no professional but have used it for 5 years and can help with setting up and tips, but hell why should I now.
Why the hell should you now? Well, because if you want to be a respected member of this board, that other members will bend over backwards to help, then you need to demonstrate that you are prepared to contribute as well as receive information and advice.
As far as I can see, you are doing all the right things. You have applied for a membership, posted on the welcome thread, and given advice to another member in an area where you have some knowledge. That’s all good but, as in real life, it takes time for people to get to know you and to start to regard you as a worthwhile contributor and, eventually, maybe even as a friend.
Where you take it from here is entirely up to you, but good luck in whatever course you decide to follow.
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With all due respect Gary, I think you are over-reacting here, nobody has told you to sling yer hook or has been rude, they have politely pointed out that your initial manner was that of somebody who just wanted to ‘take’. Read your first post again with this in mind, then, have a look through the history of this place, you cannot deny it is valuable beyond belief to a serious professional. But that has only come about because of thorough and fair moderation, IMO It has it’s rules and protocols that serve the greater good, just like anywhere.
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