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fixing signs
hi all
i am making my first sign which is 5mm acrylic board with acrylic letters on stand offs. What ways can i fix it to a brick wall without seeing the fixings?
Thanks Neil
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17 Replies
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You could use a Panatrim type of frame. As well as hiding the fixings, this also allows for expansion and contraction of the acrylic and prevents the panel from warping.
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same reply as phill for me.
as this is your first sign, do you really need to use acrylic panel?
if its stated in spec then fair do, just that i try not to use acrylic panels these days. -
Why Rob?, I feel Perspex gives such a great finish, particularly when fitted with a coloured eurotrim.
Composites seem to be taking over and with that older signmaking techniques seem to be disappearing.
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acrylic was just my choice i never thought about composite i might go that way as it makes it cheaper
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quote Gordon Jones:Why Rob?, I feel Perspex gives such a great finish, particularly when fitted with a coloured eurotrim.Composites seem to be taking over and with that older signmaking techniques seem to be disappearing.
many years ago Perspex WAS the new material instead of a painted fascia… Acrylic does look very good – and remains so, but if we didn’t move with the times and find alternative products we’d be mashing up beetles, charcoal & coloured rocks and daubing them on with our fingers! At the moment composite is affordable, impact resistant and easy for anybody to cut with not much more than a stanley.
Progress was when somebody invented the brush…
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quote David Rogers:we’d be mashing up beetles, charcoal & coloured rocks and daubing them on with our fingers!There is another way? Why wasn’t I told? 🙁 🙁 😀
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I believe composite is not moving on, it is inferior, particularly some of this cheap £30 a sheet stuff.
It has a 5 year guarantee if you are lucky.
Perspex comes with a ten year UV guarantee.
Evolution of the sign industry is fine with me, but not when the evolution is making it easier for a fruit a veg salesman to become a signmaker and the material choices are all about profit for the signmaker and not a long term quality product for our clients.
I drive around and bore the wife sick showing her signs made in Perspex I fitted 15 years ago, that simply would not happen with composite.
So thats progress!!
But maybe that does not matter to some as they will be in some other trade by then.
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Gordon, it’s getting a little off topic but suffice to say I didn’t say composite was superior evolution – in fact I hinted that acrylic was a quality product that continues to look good..
However, the market, by and large, dictates the signs we (as an industry) supply…right now there’s a large push towards lowering initial costs in the small / medium business sector…not looking 10 years down the line.
If it’s costing me £200 for 5mm coloured ICI acrylic – or £50 for quality coloured composite for the same size sheet – both will perform well for a minimum of 5 years, probably more, and that price difference can either be passed on in part – or increase profits without raising prices.
Like you – I’ve got acrylic signs that look as good today as when they were first made 13 years ago…even if it was only made with 7yr vinyl on the face – and that material was used because the alternatives of powder coated solid aluminium / PVC were either stupidly expensive or unsuitable for long term use.
Composite for many signmakers, and dare I say it the ones that care, is a general step in the right direction especially as an alternative to foam PVC. In my workshop it’s now a thing of the past…I just don’t even offer it anymore.
As a downgrade from acrylic, I can see your point, but in general it covers the spread better, taking up the middle ground quite nicely – from higher end gloss faced signs down to near disposable ones that might have been done on PVC previously.
‘Inferior materials’ as an evolution of the industry doesn’t make it any easier for someone to become a signmaker or make more money at the expense of the client’s purchase… When self adhesive vinyls first came on the market, you were lucky to get a guarantee of more that 2 or 3 years – whilst the painted signs would easily last twice that…but I’m sure nobody here would think this was a step back that opened up the market to cowboys out for a fast buck & high profits at any cost.
Acrylic still forms a large part of my repertoire alongside composite, but it’s now (for me) less of an automatic assumption that panel sign = acrylic as it did even as little as 5 years ago. As an aside, many of the older signs I’m called on to replace that were made of nice, thick acrylic…and are being replaced because they got smashed…not something you can do with alu.comp.
Dave
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I was just about to say at least it’s harder to break Composite, if the paint finish is good quality then there’s no reason it can’t last 10 years.
I’ve just replaced a load of acrylic sheets in a garage sign, they were all cracked and/or broken. I did use acrylic again but I really considered composite.Composite can take point strain as well so stand off lettering won’t result in cracking from the fixing point, you can bend up a nice tray with it, cut it without worry of cracking. The list goes on.
I do like acrylic though.
Steve
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what do you do to disguise the edges and how do compensate for two panels pulling apart as you would by rebating acrylic??
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I fitted some faces into a hmv light box for jas, they supplied 12mmx100mm steal plate 2mm thick with a thread at each end that you fitted top and bottom of each join. This was a light box mind you. If you are worried about the edges being seen I would have thought you would make it into a pan and when fitting you could put a panel down the join with d/b side tape to keep the join tight.
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Luke, I was just thinking about how those who use composite instead of acrylic hide the ugly edge…….I would have thought even with locks on the back it won’t stay nice and flush permanently
We would always rebate the acrylic to give some leeway for the panels separating ……I was just wondering how this was done using composite…….I suppose you could always put a strip down the back but I just can’t see it looking as neat as acrylic does
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if you apply a digi print to the face you can always edge wrap it.
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Glenn what do you mean by a rebate, do you mean half the thickness removed on the back of one and the front of the other so there is an overlap?
With diabond all I do is make an overlap plate and a socket on the other side, kind of like a tongue and groove joint. I can do a sketch if I haven’t explained it properly.This is what you do when making long trays that require more than one sheet.
This is the thing, there isn’t just one definite material suitable for a particulate job, just like any other manufacturing industry there is different requirements for each job and different materials fit the bill with a massive overlap of suitability and costing.
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Stephen,
Yeah that’s what I meant by a rebate.
I’m probably making too much of it but I just can’t see a way of disguising the composite edge.
I get what you mean about the tongue and groove sort of join at the back but that won’t stop the panels separating will it?
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A strip of material about 4" wide with high bond tape on the rear bridging the two panels top to bottom works for me…those sheets won’t shift. If joins in a flood coat / print are a concern on the face 8-10mm strips of the corresponding image / colour does it for me.
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I haven’t seen a join yet that is invisible. but then I wouldn’t have, would I?
Rebate joins are still visible, but are essential in a back-lit acrylic sign, to avoid the light showing through, composite being opaque doesnt need a rebate. as Dave said a strip stuck to the back does the job,
BTW if you prefer a rebate, nothing stopping you doing it on composite, stop the panels separating using spring plates in the end uprights
Peter
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