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Problems with P-Cut and its users?
Hello All,
I’ve been on here a while. I find this site very informing and helpful, most people seem to be happy to search tips, advice etc. This is the reason that I am in the process of signing up for the site membership.
Although I do seem to notice a bit of unease between some users and those using P-Cut machines. I use one of these machines and would like to get a few points across, I am sure I am not alone in saying this.
I understand that there could be a slight upset with some of the more experienced users and those with more expensive machines such as Rolands, Graphtecs etc. I can understand this partly because of some people with the cheaper machines taking some of your steam.
I’m one of the users of the P-Cut machine and I have had no problems with the cutter as such. I had a few set-up issues but I bought the machine from a reliable dealer who offers full support and back-up. I’m in this game to do a proper job but not a half-arsed job and then give up.
I’ve bought this machine as a starter budget machine. I personally couldn’t afford to go and fork out thousands of pounds on a machine and software. I will eventually upgrade to a Roland or similar whenever funds allow but I am quite happy with the P-Cut at present, it seems to cut fine and I’ve had no issues (touch wood). I’ve had some very positive feedback from customers so far and I’m really enjoying the work. I’m serious about this business.
Off-course there are those who will buy the machine have a go at it and then give up. Or others who will use it for personal use, thats cool with me and fair play to them for trying.
I just want to get the point across that I am not a giver-up I’m serious about my signwriting. I’m still young but it’s something I can envision myself doing in ten or fifteen years time. Also people should understand that some, maybe most, maybe few, P-Cut users are serious about signwriting.
I hope that has come across ok, and not too rude or arrogant. I would like to thank everyone on this site for their great advice and help so far.
Best Wishes
Jonny Annett -
16 Replies
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welcome aboard,
although still a newbie myself, well only started trading on my own this year, been working in the sign business almost 17 years though, im sure you will feel the love on the boards soon enough, pcut or not.
good luck
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Jonny,
It’s not the P-Cut machines so much as the "P-Cut mentality" that irritates established signmakers. The thing is that the established signmakers aren’t necessarily correct.
I have posted on here before about the normal cycle for new technologies so I will try to precis it so as not to exceed peoples boredom thresholds, but it goes something like this; new technology (vinyl cutters) is introduced. Equipment so expensive that only the brave and committed dare get involved. They make a fortune. Over time cost of equipment comes down, more people get involved, more competition, and reduced profits. Eventually you reach the situation we are in today where the equipment is pocket money prices and practically anybody can join in making "stickers for their mates". The whole thing has been reduced from a profession to a hobby in a matter of twenty years.
Now the thing is that this cycle is normal, in practically any industry, and anyone who doesn’t realise that has really dug their own hole. The smart boys got into vinyl cutting in the early eighties and sold out for big bucks in the late nineties, then moved on to something else. The same has happened to digital printing, but on a lot shorter timescale.
A good rule of thumb is that once somebody starts selling franchises in a particular field, then you have missed the boat.
Open an English estate agency in the Malaga area and note the reception you get from the established players (who have only been there themselves for ten years) and you will se that it is not just our industry that has these feelings. I can quote lots of other examples.
Back to the point of your post. P-Cuts themselves aren’t seen as a problem, and if anyone shows enthusiasm, commitment and intention to be a professional sign maker (taking up for membership is a good indicator) then I am convinced they will find all the help they need on here, whatever their equipment. On the other hand "P-Cut mentality" where the owner has no real interest in sign making other than making a quick buck can lead many members, myself included, being wary of offering much in the way of guidance.
Be aware that this site was originally for bona-fide sign makers, and we had to jump through hoops to prove it before we were granted access. That requirement seems to have been dropped, why I have no idea, but, for better or worse, there are now loads of folks with different priorities asking help from those with years of hard won experience.
In you own case if, you as you say, you are serious about sign making, then that will come across over a period of time and I am sure you will find even some of the more reticent members more prepared to share their knowledge. Stick with it.
Good luck in your venture.
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I think John’s nailed it there……..all that I would add is that the p cut users seemed to be asking the most basic of questions about setup etc….questions that had they bought a more established make, they wouldn’t have to ask because they would have the back up of the supplier
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Thank you for taking the time to respond John.
@ glenn. Yes some people seem to be asking the basic questions. Surely if you where starting out you would ask too? But I’ve been lucky enough that the supplier I bought my machine from offers 9am til 6pm techincal support.
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just my opinion but some people are touchy with pcut owners cause owners are viewed as too cheap to buy real machine and are cowboys. I own a pcut 1220 as I did not want to spend too much on a new venture, I went Into signs and graphics because their is a market in the local area I unfortunately have to put up with another sighmaker who is a few miles away who is undercutting me and doing rubbish. He gets jobs because "his older and has more "experience"" as one but it. his rep isint as known as it should be. I have invested in what I could afford at the time and expanded on it. I might still work at home but its all moved to its own cabin complete with ripping a chunk out of a hill to fit it and creating a lawn as a "side effect". If I had more money I would have gone for a Graphtec or similar. If I had LOTS money I would get a multipurpose ZUND they look brilliant.
Pcuts aren’t bad but some of their owners are. -
quote JonnyAnnett:Thank you for taking the time to respond John.
@ glenn. Yes some people seem to be asking the basic questions. Surely if you where starting out you would ask too? But I’ve been lucky enough that the supplier I bought my machine from offers 9am til 6pm techincal support.
@ jonny
Yes it is good to have a resource like this to be able to ask questions but my point was that the questions asked were only being asked because there was no back up from the supplier….that is part of the reason they are so cheap.
And your comment about being lucky enough that your supplier offers technical support…..sorry but luck doesn’t come into it…..I have said on here before that I would much rather buy a second hand established brand, knowing full well I have the back up if things went wrong than a cheaper import that offers you little support
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I am new to this as well every one has to start somewhere I started with a P-Cut machine and was very happy with it the only problem I had was the weeding there was always that little bit that held on a friend said that a roland would cut the same graphic and would weed with no bother He was right I now own a Roland its great
john -
i’m a relative newbie myself, having been self employed as a signmaker for just shy of 2yrs now, i never intended to be a signmaker, i bought the best machine i could afford at the time, around £1500+vat, and only bought it to do my race car. it soon went from doing my own car, which never actually got done properly, to doing stickers for firends, to doing them for clubs, to making comercial jobs. I guess i fell into it, 3yrs ago i bought my machine.
I think the problem comes from the ebay generation. the 99p brigade. for example, i’m not unaccustomed to putting the odd thing on there, but i tend to sell stuff that’s not o offer from others. a full set of decals for a particular model of jcb for instance, used about a metre of 610, took 15 mins to cut, weed, tape and pack, sold one or two a week at £18.50 + post, no one else did it, after about 6 months, and some 20-25 sales, i start getting requests for just the model numbers / names, not the big decals etc, when i looked to their feedback, it was apparent they were buying the big decals (over half a metre of vinyl) for £1.99, the seller was then suggesting they see me for the wording etc !
i enquired with the seller as to why he was sending people my way, expecting me to help people who’ve bought a very under priced product, and wanting to send me the scraps. the next reply…. "because i’ve just bought a p-cut, and i don’t know how do make words etc for cutting". i was astounded, i stopped selling them as a result and just referred customers back to him, a good few came back and bought full sets though !
anyways, this was the first time i’d heard of any of the cheaper chinese plotters, they were so cheap that i honestly couldn’t believe it. in some cases, less than the vat i paid on mine !!
in just the few years i’ve owned the cutter, i’ve seen my line of about 6 successful products on ebay, which made some sensible money, whittled down to one or two, the only reason they’re still good is cos they’re protected. All rest were discontinued due to the 99p brigade undercutting £10-15 jobs and selling for pence. the main of the problem in my eyes has been the massive influx of cheap machines, when i first went on ebay to do research, there were maybe 8-900 items in the various decal / vinyl / sticker searches i did, try it now and it’s in the tens of thousands, and very little that’s unique, it’s all clip art ! when i put something unique on there, it’s not unique for long !
ok, sorry, turning it into a personal crusade against the 99p brigade now.
yes…. i was new once too, and i too felt the same way, about different issues, when i felt i was being looked down upon. i can now, in hindsight see why time served / experienced signmakers, are sometimes reluctant to jump right in and help people, when they know nothing about them, as i’ve gained in experience, both in signmaking, and in how low the 99p brigade will go to get clipart etc, i have also become more cautious with my free info. I’ll help anyone, wherever i can, if i feel the info is being put to good use.
imho, it’s always best to ask "how can i do this" than to ask "can you do this for me", help will be alot more forthcoming.
if someone comes to this site, i don’t think it’s too hard to work out if they’re serious or not, even whether they have a p-cut, rabbit, summa, graphtec, roland or tonka, it makes no odds what the machine is, the fact that people come here, shows that most are serious about wanting to make signs. those who don’t want to make signs, but maybe have a specific use for a cutter (greeting card making etc) will also get plenty of help.
another thing that crossed my mind…..
the board rules, and the ‘accepted’ behaviors are fairly complicated until you understand them, some people who are new (regardless of machine) will ask for things that are generally not considered fair trade.
eg,
vehicle outlines, people make a living selling these, put alot of effort into them, so is it fair that those who have them, who’ve paid good money for them, give them out freely ?‘commercial fonts’, many fonts are not freely available, again, is it fair to ask for these, when people may have spent $100 on one font ?
there are other examples i’m sure.
so, to summise, if people come on and show they’re willing, determined, then great, 99% of the time they’ll get shed loads of help and advice,
some user come and go, only surfacing when they want, sorry, need, something, a font, an outline, whatever it might be,
bottom line ? the more you put in, the more you get out. regardless of the machine you use.
new bottom line…. i waffle on alot 😀
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quote Hugh Potter:new bottom line…. i waffle on alot 😀
True.
But interesting nonetheless. 😀
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Once again may I thank you all for your responses.
I can understand where you are coming from with the influx of cheaper machines. I also agree that it is astonishing to see the number of people able to sell stuff for 99p on eBay. To be honest I can’t even see how they would break even. I put a few things on there test the water type thing. I have more or less stopped any selling on there as it was bringing in not a lot of money and I am better spending my time working on orders for customers locally or the like.
To be honest I could not afford to fork out on a new machine. I did infact look at a Roland cutter second hand but it wasn’t in the best nick and the money was massively high still. I picked to buy the PCut from a dealer who had a lot of good compliments from buyers. He offers major support and can supply the majority of spares for the machine which is good. I’d much rather use the PCut for now, build up my base of contacts, clients etc. and then reward myself with a Roland or the like.
I did go out and buy everything new. I bought a high spec computer, loads of materials etc. I couldn’t afford to have got a lot of material, if any had I spent a fortune on a cutter. Although I will in time, I’m actually already looking at some as I fancy a solvent printer.
I just wanted to clear it up a bit and get some of your views so as I could try and understand further what the agro was. I’m not on here to make enemies or fall out people, after all the majority on here seem to be very friendly, helpful people. I don’t want to sound like a grumpy bugger going on and on. I do understand where you guys are coming from. I guess it will just take a bit of time before I am recognized as being genuine to some members.
Thanks for taking the time to respond and I hope I haven’t upset the apple tart.
Cheers
Jonny -
dude, you’d be hard pressed to really upset anyone on here, I’ve been on my soap box, on the way to my high horse, on a few occasions, and yet, they all dislike me just the same as before !!!
really though, regardless of the machine type, you’ll get nothing but help, yes, a few sour sounding comments might pop up, but most are said tongue in cheek, and as i mentioned before, to get the best from the site, your own input, experiences, and where poss, helping others, will reap it’s own rewards.
best of luck !
Hugh
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I dont have a problem with pcut owners, anymore than vw owners…
each to his own, if it floats your boat, thats fine, but after a while, you may want to do better…..Peter
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I don’t have a problem with P-cut users at all. I do have a problem with those that think they are a cut above p-cut users (or vw users come to that (:) (:)(:) ) 😉
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I don’t think (honestly) that anybody has a problem with P-Cut plotters or their user. Any ‘hostility’ or even ‘dismissive’ comments (often tongue in cheek) are only borne of an endless stream of questions relating to the setup problems and also of people who get their answer and are never heard from again once they get what they wanted.
(eg. Much like a couple of car forums I frequent / moderate – the same questions week-in week-out "How do I remove the dash?" at least three times a week…)
There are quite a few people on here who have very successful businesses and use the P-cut plotters / Rabbit etc. as it was a) what they could afford or b) all they needed.
The forum motto: “created by sign makers for sign makers” is (I’ve always felt) a generally open & inviting statement to encourage free speech and an interchange of experience & skills between signmakers of all skill levels, but not really as a ‘one stop shop’ for some brain picking – never to hear from them again!!
Dave
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The only reason I wouldnt buy something like a P Cut is I dont think it would stand up to the amount of work we do – they dont look particularly well made and I wouldnt like to guess how soon they would pack up if used seriously.
As others say, there is nothing wrong with buying a cheap cutter as a starting point, but there have been quite a lot of posts form people saying they have bought a P-Cut and ‘bought’ Flexi 7.5, and ‘how do I do this because I cant be bothered learning my craft and I cant find the logo on my CD-Rom’
For those of us who have invested time and money in our business, then someone coming along who is basically doing the sign equivalent of a cowboy builder is going to be annoying :lol1:
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The only problem I have with a few P-Cut users is the ones that have spent £200-£300 on the Plotter, then are trying to get it to work with £1500+ worth of software. Sure some may have legitimate software. And if that’s the case they should have no problems getting help from their software supplier getting the two up & running. I would put my house on the fact that many more have cracked software. It does seem odd that many seem to have Flexi Pro though which I think is currently around £2500+vat. Artcut which is often bundled with the P-Cut although fairly basic is more than capable of producing decent output for a beginner.
Anyway in answer to your question I don’t think anybody is going to have a problem purely based on the manufacturer you choose to buy a plotter from.
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