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does Ink Fumes effect us?
Hello,
Even though i am using a eco-solvent printer (Valuejet 104) I am finding i need to keep a door open in my shop due to the amount of fumes produced.The main issues are:
1) The front wall is 12" granite
2) The back wall is 18" granite
3) I am part of terraceIs there a suitable fan that can be placed in a window? or something stand alone that could filter the air?
Many thanks
Robert Ferguson
Scotstickers -
45 Replies
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Robert, the problem is going to be actually removing the fumes from your shop, a fan will only circulate it so doesn’t really help. If you fit an extractor then that will remove the fumes but you are going to have to put the vent through the granite wall!!!
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I have an extractor fan in the wall of my shop, the type for a bathroom. You can get them for windows here.
I’m surprised the fumes from eco sol are that bad… thats one of the advantages of eco I thought.
Failing that, you can get charcoal fans that suck the fumes in and release fresh air. Very good, but you’ll need a friendly bank manager :lol1:
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Hello,
Thanks for the advice so far- will probably have to get some one in to go through the granite wall!
Is there anyway to work out how large an extractor fan is needed for my size of shop?
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Robert, simple answer, yes there is but who ever you get in to fit the extractor will know. It is worked out on the volume of air in your shop.
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I sit next to the versacamm running ecosol max and can’t smell a thing – are you running a differant system?
Are there still health risks that go with the ecosol max? Should we have an extractor even though I can’t smell anything?
Noticed something posted about this in another thread but can’t find it now.
Cheers
G
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quote Gavin MacMillan:I sit next to the versacamm running ecosol max and can’t smell a thingi find that hard to believe you cant smell anything Gavin? you are probably just used to the smell by now… or… your so high you dont care. 😉 :lol1: :lol1:
joking aside… granted the eco-max inks smell less than solvent but it does give off an odor.
i would say a extractor of some sort would be the route to go… although one smells allot stronger than the other the effects/dangers are supposedly similar. -
I honestly can’t smell it, there may be a bit of being used to it involved, but I’m thinking it can’t be that strong?
I’ll need to look into an extractor though if the health risks are the same. Our unit has no ceiling so it quite high as it’s straight up to the rafters and the roof 4-5 mtrs high in the centre – so maybe that helps as well. Its also pretty drafty.
I’m only young though (well I like to think so anyway!!) and kinda thinking about avoiding dying of some horrendous disease in my 30’s if possible so better check it out!
As for being high? Unfortunately not or maybe I’m used to that now as well????
G
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I sit an arms length away from my solvent printer, only put the extraction on if I have clients come in. Everyone make a comment about the smell, but dad and I don’t smell it really at all. Definitely a case that we are use to it I think.
It is not something that worries me personally, and if it makes the time wasters leave quickly, it can’t be a bad thing in truth… :lol1: :lol1:
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If you are worried about the effects of the fumes from the solvent, simply request a copy of the MSDS (Mandatory Safety Data Sheet) info for the solvent. The supplier is legally required to produce it on request. This will give you all the safety data you require to make an informed decision. It should include any Maximum Exposure Limits (MEL’s) for harmful chemicals in the solvents. Worst case it will tell you to use in a well ventilated area!!!
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Solvent fumes are neurotoxic, this causes permanent damage to your brain.
Don’t stuff around… make sure you have a very good extraction system.Personally, I still want the lights (-) on upstairs in another 10-20 years time
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Does this advise go for eco sol max inks also?
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quote Daniel Gillen:Solvent fumes are neurotoxic, this causes permanent damage to your brain.
Don’t stuff around… make sure you have a very good extraction system.Personally, I still want the lights (-) on upstairs in another 10-20 years time
Ah.. so that explains my increasing dementia 😕
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quote Gavin MacMillan:Does this advise go for eco sol max inks also?
yeh it does mate, but dont worry about it, you cant smell it anyway. 😉 :lol1: :lol1:
dont listen to shane, hes actually only 16 its the fumes that have made him look a little older. 😉
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I remember when I first started working. I used to work in a Laboratory where we handled Mercury, Toluene and used Asbestos gloves on a daily basis.
Imagine an employer trying to get away with working conditions like that now.
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Phill, it was a bit like that for me when I was in the Navy, lots of asbestos pipe lagging which just use to get hacked off. Dust everywhere but we didn’t know it was dangerous so we were OK :lol1:
On the nuclear side, what exposure workers are allowed to receive a month now we used to receive a day and sometimes you would have 2 or 3 days worth in one day because you weren’t going to be exposed at all the following week 😳 😳
I don’t think it has done me any real harm but it could easily have done some serious damage, mind you having said that I do have a bit of a problem with the arthritis in my tail :lol1: :lol1:
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:lol1: :lol1: :lol1:
I quite agree Martin. A bit of exposure to some dangerous chemicals never did me any harm either *hair*
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quote Phill::lol1: :lol1: :lol1:
I quite agree Martin. A bit of exposure to some dangerous chemicals never did me any harm either *hair*
Personally, I think there is more dangerous things to inhale than solvent ink odours. Screen printers have been inhaling solvent odours for years. If you want to worry about inhaling nasty fumes, you should avoid 2nd hand smoke for a start. That is a real killer. Hell, smokers inhale more toxic fumes in each cig than I’ll inhale in a year sitting in my office with my printer.
I’m not being flippant to the possible on-going dangers here, but I think we have bigger things to worry about when it comes to inhaling printer ink fumes. 😕
If it doesn’t give you a headache, trouble your breathing, or give you a rash, you’ll be fine I’m sure.. 😉
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i agree on the smoking shane… no disrespect to any smokers but shane does have a very good point. 😕 as for screen printers… i used to think the exact same when i was inking truck curtains years back now. thinner and ink had you high as a kite by the time you had mixed the stuff. prepping it for the job. could it be H&S over doing it again? who knows…
we have a pretty powerful fan sucking the fumes out, another at other end of room sucking air in. the next room to this one has the exact same.
however, i have walked into the room when andrew has been printing all day long and the smell IS strong! -
quote Gavin MacMillan:I honestly can’t smell it, there may be a bit of being used to it involved, but I’m thinking it can’t be that strong?I fully agree with you Gavin. Neither myself or my other 3 lads can smell the Eco-sol max on the Versacamm………..unless, it is printing banner. In 3 years, I have never had a customer mention the smell either. I definitely have no plans to fit extraction for it.
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Health and safety has gone to far.. however I feel that if there is any chance that my health might be effected or even worse that of my employees might be – i have no choice but take the safer option.
I do realize that a lot is said in jest but if someone misunderstands it could cause problems in the future.
I have invested heavily in this industry and intend to continue working in the sign industry until i retire – even very small amounts of fumes or toxins could cause serious problems over many years of exposure.
Robert Ferguson
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You could pop one of those "pine fresh" trees on the side….might mask the smell a little :lol1:
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i was told those fumes from our machines affect your short term memory…
wait…what was the question again?
for real though, all joking aside, in our building with the machines and liquid laminator there were summer days last year when the fumes were unbearable and made us light headed. I also developed a mysterious cough that the doctor diagnosed as an upper respiratory infection (i seem to be very susceptible to these since i got one when i used to work in an autobody doing airbrushing) the whole thought on the fumes worries me, not so much right now…but 10 years down the road since it seems like just about everything causes cancer these days. Since we put an addition on our building we have since then also installed air purifiers and an extraction system to pull remaining fumes out of the building.
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quote George Kern:i I also developed a mysterious cough that the doctor diagnosed as an upper respiratory infection (i seem to be very susceptible to these since i got one when i used to work in an autobody doing airbrushing)
George, when I was just out of school, I did an apprenticeship spraying two pac polyurethanes (for McDonalds). That was in the days when you had to wear an air-filter charcoal cartridge on your back and a full body suit and face mask.
My boss was so tight, and I was so keen on a job, when the filters became useless, I just didn’t wear one. I got high as a kite just about everyday, and had breathing difficulties when things got really bad. I just stepped outside and got some fresh air until I felt better. You couldn’t do it now days. Work place laws would have had my boss jailed if someone did that now.
I developed bronchial pneumonia about a year later, so much so, I had to give up the job. I got bronchial pneumonia every year after that for about 10 years. But, as I’ve said here, I don’t have ventilation other than an exhaust fan. I’ve been pretty sensitive to fumes and cig smoke ever since, but these fumes don’t seem to worry me at all. On one of our Queensland summers, when temps inside our airconditioned office reach 36deg and the outside is stinking hot, the fumes do become more obvious. I put a fan blowing air across the print toward the exhausted fan then, and the problem is solved.
As I said before, lots to worry about in the air, solvent fumes are just one of them. There is plenty of data about Radio waves from mobile phones, Telephone systems and power lines that raise concerns about cancer causing agents, but we don’t get around in nuclear suits, or use our mobile phones any less.
Its good to see people are becoming proactive in looking after ones health tho. Nothing like when I was a kid.
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Simply drink milk!!
Apparently this causes mucus in the throat that helps to "trap" solvent particles. Serious. We used to receive a pint a day at a screenprinting place I used to work. Spraypainters also use this trick.
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They did the milk trick at primary school – I think it was to combat "Teachers Breath". 😉
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Vale – my concern is that the advise here seems to be that although we can’t smell it the damage is still being done. I’m definitely going to be looking more into this.
G
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quote Graeme Harrold:You could pop one of those “pine fresh” trees on the side….might mask the smell a little :lol1:
I’m gonna give this a go tomorrow. Sounds like a good idea to me… 😛
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I replaced a glass window with diabond. Drilled a hole in it and stuck the pipes through the hole. My desk sits about 2feet away from the printer and the only high I get is from the fumes coming from the vinyl.
Thinking of bagging the fumes that go outside and selling it. I’d make a ruddy fortune round here! :lol1: -
Sorry Karl but by law you are not allowed to sell printer fumes to anyone under 16 years of age :lol1:
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Don’t know Martin, I think the old bill here would appreciate the quiet mate. I’d be doing them a favor! :lol1:
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i think Karl is onto something here 😀
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Karl, if you buy another printer you could then offer your customers either: Mild eco-solvent printer fumes or for more adventurous Full flavor full solvent printer fumes 🙄 🙄
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Martin, with your brains and my good looks we could go into business together mate. http://www.F*ckupyourbrain.com. A local police initiative to reduce crime my making criminals sleep!
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I spoke to B&P about this.
Apparently the nasty element which creates health problems associated with solvents is either removed or not present in their inks can’t remember but perhaps they could confirm.
safe than sorry always run with window or door open unless you like the buzzzzz
Ah takes me back to the old superglue and a poly bag!
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quote :I spoke to B&P about this.Apparently the nasty element which creates health problems associated with solvents is either removed or not present in their inks can’t remember but perhaps they could confirm.
Has anyone ever seen a COSHH sheet for their inks?
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Just joking i was strictly a lighter fuel guy!
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Uniforms expert did a FAQ’s piece I think this is what they are referring to .
Q3. Our own CitroSOL inks contain organic colourants, organic solvents and have been developed to ensure they are 100% free of both cyclohexanone and isophorone. There have been many adverse comments posted recently about the use of these particular chemicals in solvent inks, can you please explain what these chemicals are, why they are used and what the health and safety implications are.A3. Cyclohexanone and isophorone belong to the ketone group of solvents. They are frequently used because they have excellent solvency to most plastics. Both solvents have very low occupational exposure levels: isophorone 5 parts per million, cyclohexanone 10 parts per million, for an eight hour working day as they affect the respiratory system. There is some evidence that isophorone has a limited carcinogenic effect. This means that the working environment where such solvents are used will have to be controlled. This usually means localised extraction and monitoring of the atmosphere to ensure that the concentrations are not exceeded. The use of cyclohexanone is now subject to biological monitoring, i.e. blood measurements.
I have just bought a solvent printer and I am going to get extraction fitted without a doubt. -
You probably would not go far wrong making a cooker style extraction hood above your printer. When it comes to solvents yo can never be too cautious. Todays miracle solvent or product ends up as the problem child 10 years down the line…..i.e asbestos, benzine, engine oil to name but a few…… If you cant smell it, chances are the damage is done……….
The exposure limits are difficult to check without specialist equipment which is why the COSHH and MSDS sheets for the products will tell you to use in a well ventilated area. Health and safety umbrellas up!
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My understanding is that the solvents used are heavier than air. This suggests to me that any extraction equipment would work best installed below the level of the print head.
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quote Phill:My understanding is that the solvents used are heavier than air. This suggests to me that any extraction equipment would work best installed below the level of the print head.
My understanding is the same Phill. My exhaust fan is at floor level. Works well
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We were told this too…any extraction to be at floor level as the fumes
are heavier than air, with the re-circulation fan for clean air, to be above
head height. -
quote Phill:My understanding is that the solvents used are heavier than air. This suggests to me that any extraction equipment would work best installed below the level of the print head.
good point phill, that does make sense…. ours are NOT low down, they are just over 6 foot from the ground. 🙄
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I used to work in the fiber glass industry and the fumes from the resin (styrene) were heavier than air. We always put extraction at the lowest point. If you don’t then you are extracting clean air which is the opposite of what your trying to do. Also if for some reason you are overcome by fumes or something else to make you blackout then you would be lying in solvent fumes at concentrated levels. Styrene fumes from fiber glass replace the oxygen and so starve the brain of it causing brain damage if the levels are very high. I don’t know if the solvents used cause anything like this but it is food for thought
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I have received the data sheets for the inks and cleaning fluid. As far as I can make out the health risks are minimal – the cleaning fluid seems to be the most lethal thing so I’ll maybe start wearing a mask on my regular weekly (aye, right) cleaning operations!
The inks do seem to contain some nasties but these are not airborne under normal circumstances. I wouldn’t listen to anyone on this subject though so if you have any worries about it whatsoever get onto your supplier who is obliged to send this stuff out.
G
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Hi Gavin
Be mind-full that the data sheet only tells you about the ink when it is a liquid when you print the heaters on your machine react with the inks releasing fumes.
Good practice is to have a extractor fan low down in your room and a fresh air blower in the ceiling or high on the wall.
Stu
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