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help please cold conditions are making vinyl to come off?
Hi there. For all you folks who live in snowy conditions can you give us some advice? I know you are thinking that we live in Canada. What gives? We are in the mild part of BC Canada, where climate is like the UK, lots of rain, not cold. We only have snow once in a blue moon, and every storm we have we get at least 3 or 4 calls about vehicle decals "falling off ! or disintegrating!" My response is usually that’s bull*!!*.(not that I say exactly that to them). We always give out instruction sheets explaining care, car washes and window scrapers for snow. These locals, and I use the term litterally, who scrape their cars etc. with snow scrapers, and then blame us is driving me crazy! All the decals were for windows that were cleaned with alcohol prior to install. Dry application with only premium vinyls used, all different colours. Avery vinyls, installed in a warm bay on a warm vehicle. Usually this is on a fine font, or thin lines. I have had too many people complain this time, so have been talked into redo’s. Can you tell me what you tell people, or is it perhaps true which I doubt that their decals miraculously blew off their cars. Last storm, we had 5 instances of complaints!! Do I sound pissed!! 👿 One set of decals was put on the day before the storm, which was a month ago, so I can’t even see the remnants of the vinyl left. However, an install the day before, maybe there is some validity on that one, but how do you approach this??? I would really appreciate some advice from you folks who experience snow on a regular basis. Thanks.
Janice
(:) :headbang2:
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7 Replies
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It’s happened to me twice over the years. Claims of letters ‘falling off’.
Once I was supplied with some cheap ‘n’ nasty vinyl (penny pinching boss at the time) – it flaked off after the first bad frost (was on about a week). Luckily only did one (external) job with it.
The last time was on of our lads called be up to say two letters had peeled off in the last big freeze we had (month back). I thought pretty much as you, premium vinyl, applied dry to rear window. I knew this had to be rubbish – he later admitted that he went to scrape the ice off & forgot about the lettering. 😳 so took the rest of the letter off.
The only other time I’ve been ‘nervous’ was after flood-coating the side of a van wet – and it got a bit chilly that night. Turned out OK though.
I have applied vinyl when it’s been snowing though – but toasted it all on with a heat gun.
Are your adhesives solvent or water based? – that’s the only thing I can think that might make them flake off if on just a short time.
Dave
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Last winter, I dry-applied Oracal 751 to the back window of a mini-van. It was the day before a snow storm, but not snowing that day. I allowed the van to warm up in a heated garage for at least 30 minutes before applying the decals.
I had told her not to use her back windshield wiper for a few days, and to park it where the sun would hit the stickers when she got home.
I got an email from the lady 6 weeks later, saying "The vinyl is all falling off" I was mortified as this seemed like it was something I had done wrong. I told her we’d wait till spring, when it was warmer, and I’d replace the vinyl free of charge. She emailed back and seemed satisfied. Then a few months later, she emailed asking when I would be ready to re-do the mini-van, because she needed to change something on it and could I do that while I was at it. I said OK.
She pulls into my driveway a few days later…with ONE nicked letter! And it was obviously from her rear wiper, which she vehemently denied using. Since I already had the damn thing cut out, weeded, and masked (with her changes) I scraped off the perfectly good lettering and stuck on the new one. All I really needed to change was one fricking letter, and I told her so. I think it was her way of adjusting what she’d initially wanted on the van for free.
If this happens to you again, ask to see the vehicle in question. I am sure that in every case it will be because of a client who is over-zealous with an ice scraper. If you are handing them out an info sheet, that is your insurance. I would order in two-part ones and make them sign off on it so that you have proof that you advised them. The $75 you’d spend on forms will pay for itself the first time one of them comes back.
On the other hand, I would NEVER EVER use Avery…two summers ago they had a problem with the adhesive on their A8 series whereby the vinyl shrank away from it, leaving a glue halo. Lots of us signfolks lost a lot of money, time, and customers over that fiasco!
Love….Jill
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Hi guys. Thanks for the responses. All help is good, and it certainly helps to vent it out. Customers – can’t live without them, but they sure can drive you nuts. End result, their complaints are bogus. I have emailed stores here in Canada, and all say the same as you guys. I of course knew that; if we put this product on planes, boats and helicopters, if would stick to car windows. I am in future going to make it really difficult for them to try to pull this on me, making the warranty issue a really big deal. I will make them sign for the instruction sheet like I do for magnetics, so it will be very hard for them to lie. Here will be my response to customers…
1. He has to bring he vehicle back for digital photos
2. I have to compile a report for the vinyl manufacture
3. I email the report (with photos) to vinyl manufacture
4. They have to get back to me with the warranty approval
5. Then he has to bring the vehicle back for re-installetc, etc, etc…
As for the Avery vinyl Jill, they addressed that shrinkage problem. I have my supplier getting a response from them just in case this is a vinyl issue.
Thanks for all ability to let off some steam!Janice
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we only use good brands/series of vinyls. still… every winter i get a come back. (yes, i did just admit that :oops:)
reason… fitters not giving a toss to what they have been told.
when a van comes in to get graphics fitted in very cold weather (we ALWAYS FIT DRY) i stop and get our guys to tell them… "as of today. the weather has started to change… regardless to what you think. when the graphics are applied. heat them till the panel it is applied to is warm. "not the vinyl" The Panel/s…."
we have a warm workshop in the cold. but that doesn’t matter really…
not unless your leaving it indoors for a few hours before fitting.
when the vehicle comes in, the metal and glass panels are so much colder than the air in the room.
yes fitting dry helps very much so… however, as soon as your vinyl touches the surface of glass or metal the cold repels the adhesive to an almost tack-less state. for some reason it feels like it has a grip on the surface and peels well, but doesn’t increase its grip with time like vinyl normally does. it stays as it was the second it was applied. "minimal grip"
the vehicle can drive around for days/weeks… but as soon as something like a window wiper hits it a few times, or worse still, a pressure washer "OFF IT COMES"
It is not a vinyl fault, most if not all vinyls will stipulate fitting temperatures, regardless to grade of the product. i guess it is upto us to take the surface to that temp once applied if we expect the true life.
i know thats probably not what you wanted to hear, but like us… it does happen. i just take it out on the staff member when it happens for not listening. :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:all that said, i know fine well there are allot of chancers out there that will complain when it was them with their ice scrapers… just thought ide give you another scenario 😀
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Hey Rob. Good enough. We do heat up the bay, and leave the vehicle warm up, but maybe on these ones the surface was not warm enough. Good point. Still good to vent it out, because this has been a pain in the butt. I will discuss this all with the fitters to make sure surface is toasty. Thanks.
Janice
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quote Janice LeBlanc:Still good to vent it out, because this has been a pain in the butt.
Janice
couldnt agree more janice, wether its a question, just venting or whatever… it will help countless people reading this thread with the same or similar problems. so i thank you for the post… 😀
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There is little to add but one thing I have become aware of that might help is that the adhesive can be "shocked" if put onto a cold surface, even if heated at a later time. I think the top level of molecules change their properties.
I recently did a job for a bus company – 8,000 small screen printed window stickers. I used a cast vinyl. They claimed they had the buses inside with an ambient temperature of more than 8°c (min application temperature). However the windows do not heat up instantly. In fact I think they can be very slow to heat up.
The stickers were applied to the windows and days later they complained of a problem. The bus would have heated up and cooled. So the vinyl would have reached normal service temperature and you would expect the adhesion to cure to full strength.
I had some spare which applied beautifully to the office internal windows but poorly to the external windows. It was cold outside.
A wee bit high tech but you can get infrared thermometers (~£40-50) that you can measure the termperature of the surface. This might be a worthwhile investment to ensure that you only apply to windows above minimum application temperature.
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