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Partnership or not-all thoughts appreciated!
Hi everyone
A guy local to me who has been involved in the sign trade (traditional & modern) for many years has been giving me some work recently, and has now asked me my views on a partnership.
He works from home, but doesn’t want to do designing etc. He says he is best at getting the work in, and that he has about £10,000 (gross) of work lined up. He seems to go out looking for it, and wants me to do the computer/cutting/applying etc.I am reluctant to let anyone else get a hold on my business, although I guess there are benefits too – just wondered on your thoughts about this-good or bad idea, and why?
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28 Replies
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quote Lorraine Clinch:Hi everyoneA guy local to me who has been involved in the sign trade (traditional & modern) for many years has been giving me some work recently, and has now asked me my views on a partnership.
He works from home, but doesn’t want to do designing etc. He says he is best at getting the work in, and that he has about £10,000 (gross) of work lined up. He seems to go out looking for it, and wants me to do the computer/cutting/applying etc.I am reluctant to let anyone else get a hold on my business, although I guess there are benefits too – just wondered on your thoughts about this-good or bad idea, and why?
I’d be cautious Lorraine.
I’d consider offering him a commission type position.
I know a local sign firm that formed a partnership in a similar circumstance, and once it was made legal, he came nowhere near his stated ability, and was really only interested in the steady income.
I’d rather see your company employ his company and trade as two entities under the one roof, at least until you see if the idea is working. Just my thoughts anyway.
All the best with whatever you decide.
Shane
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So whats in it for you?
If your co is not doing well the fillup in the workload might work out , if you are OK , then why bother with the headache a partnership is likely to cause. Treat a partnership the same way as you would a new marriage after having just gone thru a messy divorce. If you are reluctant , that should tell you all you want to know – don’t do it. -
Something about "plagues" and "avoiding like" springs to mind, but that’s just personal bias! If he’s approached YOU, it’s obviously to benefit him more than you.
I also have been offered numerous partnerships & a franchise over the years – all of which I’ve turned down as the claims of potential earnings were unrealistically high and stank of serious embelishment in some cases…heck, you know the local market and is his £10k gross of lined up work realistic – or is this just a figure plucked out of the air.
And was HE capable of turning at least the majority of this around fairly quickly on his own, if not, his reputation may already be on the line for failing to supply in time.Like Shane, I’d recommend some caution, perhaps a trial period of unofficial collaboration – using each other as a sub-contractor or to handle overspill / rush jobs. If you have premises – share the building costs but make sure ONLY you hold the lease, or make bulk materials orders to split costs – but from then on in you’ll have to keep your customer records & accounts under lock & key!!
I would say that before taking it on face value you ask to see what he’s ‘got on his books’ before YOU concider a partnership, if he’s genuinely looking to join up that won’t be a problem will it?
I’m also wary of ‘salesmen’ types who CAN and DO bring in the enquiries & do quotes – but have no desire to see it made, only to get a wage and an easy life. Again personal bias from bitter experience!
At the other end of the scale I was asked by a small-time signmaker 🙄 but fairly competent portrait artist to pass him some work if I had enquiries in his area. OK – show me your wares, I was not overly impressed and politely asked him for a few more examples as I NEEDED to see that I could confidently send him off as a sub-con representing MY company. (I also suggested giving him an hourly rate for doing site surveys ‘up north’ but let him know that if he measured it wrong – he pays for it.) Not heard from him since.
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If he is as good as he says he is it could work, you could have a "partnership agreement" and still trade as your name although you will be sharing the profits (or losses).
Is he looking for a 50/50 split?
Work out between yourselves what you both want from the venture and, if it still seems like a good idea get a solicitor to draw up a partnership agreement, with exit clauses and arrangements to cover if he (or even you) is unable to work
Did I say to get a solicitor to draw up a partnership agreement – most important
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Lorraine Clinch
I am quite new on this forum but have been in businesses a long time, and in my experience with partners the only one you can rely on is the one you are married too "in some cases anyway lol" I am not saying they are all bad but!!!!
I have had 3 partnerships and all have been a complete pain and i will never go down the road again of having a working partner, and its even worse when they are friends as if it goes wrong you lose a friend also –
just my opinion anyway!
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quote :seems to go out looking for it, and wants me to do the computer/cutting/applying etc.no to a partnership i think he is looking for a easy ride.
i would tell him you get the work you pay me to do it you pocket the difference every ones a winner that way you keep your business
chris
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Lorraine i would say no …a great big no .You never know anybody till your in bed with them (thats in a business sense you understand ) People change there minds all the time .They might want to pull the business in a direction you dont want to go .Fall out with customers youve had for years….sorry to be so negative but its just the way i feel about it 😥
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THE ANSWER IS NO NO! all people think different, working procedures, thinking ability , attitudes, approaches, i no of people who work together, but tolerate their partnership over money, ist= no families 2nd no friends, no peoplle who ask to many questions, stay yourself, only one person to worry about, its like going on holiday with someone, youll find them out , be cautius, allthe best JOHN JBS
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Just one more thing , collaborative business proposals are often just a sort of industrial espionage , to find out more about a competitor or the viability of instituting a particular process or such like In such negotiations you tend to reveal a lot you would not normally do. Be Careful
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Hi
I would offer your services at a ‘trade’ price for a limited period and see what he has to offer. I think like others, he may be looking for business via your leads and contacts.
Hope it works out for you. Good luck.
Peter -
I don’t know of any partnerships that last long, you always get one who does all the work while the other one wants to go play golf or buy a new car that the business cannot afford, so NO.
L J
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Lorraine
I would have to advise no, as has been said previously may be do a deal on a commission basis, or sell him work that he can sell on to his customers you are only just moved into your shop and so you will not have worked out all your possibilities yet why hand it to some one else, just my thoughts. Good luck with what ever you decide.He sounds like he wants you to do every thing you said " he dosen’t like to design" have you seen any of his work, and while you are doing the design computor work cutting etc. where is he in the pub !!!!!!!
Lynn
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definite NO, if he finds you sales, good, give him a commission.
also, only pay the commission on settled invoices.we find work easy, doing the work easy, getting paid! now thats a different kettle of fish altogether. 😉
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It is rare to find a business partner who is selfless. If you are lucky it happens once in a lifetime.
Michael Eisner – Luck – Partnership – BusinessMine is not only not selfless but an:
ex-girlfriend, self opinionated, annoying, hypocritical control freak………and a friend.
Here’s to another 15yrs (!) 😥
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I was about to launch into an anti-partnership diatribe, but I see you’ve all done it for me!
The are loads of solicitors earning good money on sorting out the mess after partnerships fail. I’ve experienced it and don’t recommend it.
What you need to consider is an "arms length" business relationship, which, if all parties succeed in doing what they say they will do, gives benefits to all, but if it doesn’t work out, then you don’t get screwed and can walk away.
Peter
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I would say NO (:)
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Lorraine
There is one ship that doesn’t float, and that’s a PARTNERSHIP
Have been involved twice over the years in partnerships, so be very careful, so the answer is No!
Cheers
Mole -
I thought I would leave this thread over the weekend, and Boy! Am I glad that I did 😮
Thank you everyone who has replied, you have confirmed my worst fears regarding this, so the answer will be ‘No’, in the nicest possible way of course 😎
He is already bringing me some work, just to cut, no weeding or backing up etc. (but have to get it on the computer first), but in 3 days last week was on the phone or the doorstep between 1 & 5 times a day.
I have 2 issues with this, 1/ my work is getting behind, cos he wants his ‘yesterday’, and 2/ what the hell do i charge him?
Anyway, I have much to think on, thanks to all of your very sensible replies…
Cheers everyone!
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:no1: Lorraine, I went down that road many years ago …… seemed a good idea at the time. But a partnership NEVER works out 50/50. Someone always ends up doing more than their fair share….. and god help you should work get slow ….. 👿 👿 👿
I told him I was going back out on my own and sent him on his way. No argument. Now….. he does the odd job for me and we get on far better than we did as a partnership. Don’t get me wrong, I learned a lot from him and vice versa but it’s hard to stay friends where money is involved!
Also trust is a major aspect in a partnership, do you know this guy well enough to place your trust in him?
If you’re managing on your own, why change that?
Marcella
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Hi Marcella, you are quite right, i don’t know him from Adam, just what he tells me, and some local people who know him socially say he is a really nice guy, etc etc.
I do wonder what made him suggest a partnership, as he has apparently been a bigwig in at least one large sign company…..
And yes, I am managing nicely alone! -
I should just mention that I have been in partnership with my parents for over 30 years, and it has worked a treat, but a stranger in a partnership is a different matter.
At least with your spouse or family, there is a good chance that you will have the same aims, but someone that you don’t know intimately would be a different proposition altogether 😕
As you say, if you don’t need him now, I wouldn’t take him on.
As Rodney says too, collaborative business proposals are often just a sort of industrial espionage. Seen that happen a few times in business, including mine.
We had an opposition company approach us and offer to buy us out some years ago, for a window tinting business we had. We got them to sign a secrecy agreemant, then showed them the books, all our clients details, rent agreements etc, and then all of a sudden, without warning, they backed out.
They realised that our lease was due for renewal, and they left the decision to pull out of the deal to the very last minute. Then out of the blue all our staff resigned on mass. Then, the the landlord rang and said he had a interested tenant that wanted to rent our space if we were not keen on signing a new lease. We had wanted out of the business for a while, so were not keen to sign up for another 5 years.
We needed staff but were unable to find anyone quickly, so we took the opportunity to leave. It was not until we were moving out that we discovered the new tenant was the interested buyer. We walked into a trap good and proper. Our old staff started working for the new guy, and he walked into all our business, didn’t pay a cent.
I will never trust anyone in those circumstances again 👿
I think you made the right decision.
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Shane, you are scaring me!!!! 😮
I’m staying well out of it now, no matter how good his motives may be.
Thanks everyone for all the excellent advice-nothing like voices of experience to put you right.
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quote Lorraine Clinch:I have 2 issues with this, 1/ my work is getting behind, cos he wants his ‘yesterday’, and 2/ what the hell do i charge him?
Cheers everyone!
A bit more advise………..don’t do any work for him without giving him a quote first………….it’s too late after you have finished the job.
L J
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quote :I do wonder what made him suggest a partnership, as he has apparently been a bigwig in at least one large sign company…..
Then why isn’t he now?
I think you are correct to stay clear. Make sure you get payment on delivery as has beens are often don’t pays!
Peter
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To add to John & Peter.
As a previous signmaker/bigwig, he KNOWS what it costs to make signage, so may (erroniously) assume he’ll get it ‘cheap’.
I hope we’re not the ‘prophets of doom’ and it works out well!
In light of the above ‘payment issues’, perhaps it may be wise to get paid BEFORE telling him you’re just going to ‘take you chances on your own’. 😉
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I would steer clear. No way to the partnership, you are managing fine on your own. However, you could do the jobs for him at a trade price. 15% off regular. However, he has to understand you have a business to run, if he pushes, give him the shove. He has to wait his turn like everyone else. I have a few people who I supply product to and it works well, however, they are customers like everyone else. Good luck.
Janice
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Thanks everyone.
Janice has suggested a 15% discount for ‘trade’-does this figure seem appropriate to others, should it be more?
Actually, I have just made up my mind. I don’t really want this work off him (well, maybe when I am slow) so I shall tell him ‘no thanks’ to the partnership, and tell him he can have any future work at a discount.
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quote Lorraine Clinch:Thanks everyone.
Janice has suggested a 15% discount for ‘trade’-does this figure seem appropriate to others, should it be more?
Actually, I have just made up my mind. I don’t really want this work off him (well, maybe when I am slow) so I shall tell him ‘no thanks’ to the partnership, and tell him he can have any future work at a discount.
I usually work on 20% discount as a minimum. If they give me a lot of regular work and they pay promptly, I may offer more, but as well as the % I will give them an account, to give them time to get paid by their client.
Other sign shops sometimes get me to cut their vinyl and they also supply the artwork in eps format, and I just charge an hourly rate to cut and premask it.
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