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Cartongraf vinyls anyone else tried it?
Vinyl Logistics (excellent service ladies) first replaced the JAC range with GMI – and it didn’t go down too well. They new replacement for anybody not liking that stuff is made by CARTONGRAF. (5-7yr)
Now, on paper it looks great (spec sheet), I’ve got a couple of rolls of it here.
Cuts great, weeds great. BUT……the so called high grab water based adhesives take about 24 hours to get a grip onto foam, and even doing vinyl on vinyl (heating up too) you can peel it straight off.
Anybody else tried it? Comments?
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8 Replies
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i have never tried the vinyl mentioned David, but ill be honest mate, i recon most vinyls are crap at initial tack on foamex. vinyl onto foamex has to be the easiest surface to apply to dry. you can whip it up even after its down and nothing happens. try doing same on cold foamex and its like applying wet. 😕 :lol1:
that said, if its not sticking to vinyl on tack, when applied in a moderately warm room, then it is having bother.be good to hear what others say…
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I agree Rob, most vinyls are crap at first grab – but this was peeling off (like it was just a piece of application tape)…no actually, the application tape stuck BETTER to the PVC board than the vinyl. Heat gunning it made next to no difference.
Only after 24hrs did it get a good hold. I say good, what I mean is sub standard – like, say Mac 8900 down wet, squeegeed & peeled straight off. There is no way in hell I’m sending out a vehicle with it on!
It was the vinyl on vinyl that really worried me. That should – especially when warmed stick like the proverbial to a blanket, no such luck – peeled right off.
Gonna give them a follow-up call to let them know what conclusion I reach as to the chances of my using it again. Would just be interested to know if any others have had trouble, or even a GOOD result when using it.
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never heard of them Dave
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Hi David
I am weeding some Cartongraf as we speak (well, I was a minute ago).
I bought several full rolls a while ago, and have never had any problem with it, EXCEPT once, when I was signing a foam-board supplied by the customer, who is a plastics supplier.
It (the board) was strange stuff, had a clear blue protective plastic over it, unlike any other I have been supplied with. I gave it a quick clean as usual, to de-static it more than anything.
The vinyls were as you said, just would not lay down.
I was really getting made, ended up cleaning the board really hard with alcohol etc, before the vinyl would stick. Once it was on, I heated it, and it’s not fallen off yet-about 12 months now.
As I say, it’s never happened again, and it is really sticky when weeding-can’t shake it off if stuck to my hand!
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After trying & hating the GMI, I wasn’t going to risk another ‘pot shot’ vinyl from VL with regard to the cartongraf. It’s an unheard of brand, so you can’t ‘sell’ it to your customers like you can 3M or Avery etc (at least JAC had the Avery name attached to it) & the warranty & after sales is un-known both to us & VL.
I’m cutting some Oracal 551 5/7 year vinyl as I type, just weeded some earlier & I have to say it’s really good, & I’m even paying less for it than I was for the JAC, & there’s far more colours, & it’s interchangable with the 751c for the trickier rivety jobs, so there is absolutely no need IMO to ‘risk’ going with the cartongraf.
That said, it just goes to show how good the JAC stuff is/was. Even on foam board it would stick instantly, & a quick flick of the heat-gun made it permanent! It’s a shame, because as you rightly say, the service from the VL ladies was brilliant.
Come on VL, start stocking Oracal!!!
Cheers,
Gwaredd.
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Where are you getting your Oracal from, Europoint?
Might give them a ring on Monday. The thing is VL is just my secondary supplier. I only really used them for part rolls as their pro-rata rate & deliveries were cheaper.
All this trouble started when I thought I’d be smart & try a full 50m @ 1220 of GMI Black & 25m or so of yellow. Honestly, worst purchasing error made, I stopped selling black as I couldn’t waste time weeding it. At least I was just flood coating with the yellow & some larger text.
Yes, to paraphrase Gwaredd "STOCK SOMETHING DECENT" in a mid range. That said, the LG reflectives they do are amonst the best I’ve used so it’s not like they only do problematic vinyls. I miss JAC…..
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Yes, I get it from Europoint, but I miss JAC too! I knew exactly how it would weed, heat, stick etc etc, & now it’s a whole new learning curve with the 551. Very good stuff so far though.
For 99.9% of my work, the 5/7 year stuff is more than good enough, but now I have the security that *IF* I do need to use cast, I simply order the required amount in 751c & it will colour match perfectly.
As for reflective material, I use LG too, but get it from Victory design as they often flog it @ around £4.00 PM (610mm)
The other bonus in using Europoint, is that they offer free delivery over £35, NOT £100+ like most others, so no more bumping orders up just to get free delivery for me!
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Well, I HAD to use some cartongraf (black) for a van I had in today. Worked a treat after I had meths’d down the surfaces. Large expanses down dry, even in a really warm factory you could rub it down without any problems as it’s not that sticky.
I would probably have stuck with it in the long term if it was more universal in its uses, but as it was apalling on foam (Simona), and even when sticking it to itself I wasn’t going to keep it longer than necessary.
The ladies at VL are sending out a sample of ASLAN….yes, ASLAN. Yup, that stuff that was so shi==y a few years ago you couldn’t GIVE it away. Aparently it’s much improved…..we’ll see. I the mean time, back to the main supplier for vinyl I can trust.
ps. Believe it or not, the GMI paper application tape from V.L. is actually quite good & reasonably priced.
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