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re matching old signwork
hi all need some help
i do a lot of body shop work where i go along and copy what was on the old panel
i.e digi pic and vectoriseor take a rubbing with application tape and scanok here’s the bit i need some help with, I’m getting more and more jobs where the vehicle has digi print work on them i.e company logos , pictures etc etc
how do i go about copying them and getting them printed
thanks rich
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21 Replies
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Hello Mate
Near to impossible I would have said, better off moving on to the next job its not worth the hassle in my book – but like you, if someone has a solution I’d love to know it too!
John
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Just an idea Rich, but do they still make those hand held scanners. The one’s that were popular before flatbed scanners. That and a laptop, but would only work on small stuff though, unless you merge together in photoshop. Would be a nightmare for anything but a flat panel though. Don’t know what quality would be like either. Oh well, just an idea.
Ali
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tell ya why i ask
have a van in a body shop i do all the time and need one sliding door re done and a rear tailgate
the van was done by a firm not to far from me so thought i would be fair and ask them to supply the cut vinyl and a printed graphic on the tail gate
any way they were very helpfull and pricd it for supply only so i could fiti could have vectored most of it but thought i was doing the right thing any way they qouted me £300 for what i would say was around max £180-200 mark 2 doors in total !!!
i looks like im being held to ransom over the print work
was i asking too much ?
i understand them needing to make a living but if it was the other way round and a bodyshop called me saying they had a van in that i did would i charge so much more ??? -
Hi Rich
I know what you mean, hopefully somone with print knowledge on here will give you some figures, for me I am constantly suprised at how much print work is, but we should remember quality vinyl poss laminated and coming off a hugely expensive machine all has to be paid for.
The risk for us when buying in is messing it up and having to get a print redone – profit gone – hence the reason I would say steer well clear unless its a simple job with no risk.
John
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Rich you will never get a good match unless you have the original art , and more or less printed on the same machine.
Just buy the graphic, and charge + profit and for applying.
If the original company Know where the van is It may be better to let them do it, after all if one off my customer was having a van done locally I would reasonable expect to be given the repair work.
Peter
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ok ok update
i called the comany that the van belongs too and asked them how much they were charged per van and guess what the price was fitted for each van£300 including materials
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Rich
Who are you doing the job for? insurance or the garage?The original sign company wont be to pleased that you are repairing their work, and they wont want to loose a customer to you, I cant blame them, I would do the same in their shoes.
I do a lot of repair work, some sign companies are fine letting me have the artwork, but I only ask if its something really difficult, or the company is way out of my patch.I earn far more reproducing than I would expect to pay for the original.
The Insurance companies would rather not have the hastle so are usually happy to pay top dollar.
A van I originally did some print on was repaired by the local chap, to the repair shop. The work was good but not quite the same as the original so the customer insisted that I redid it! so in the end the insurance company paid twice.
I would probably back off this one, reccomend that the garage or owner use the original signshop.
Peter
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peter mate im on your team
you got me wrong i do sign work for a body shop i take the good jobs and the bad
i wanted to get the company that did the work to cut ansd supplie the vinyl for me to fit but i would have understood if they didnt want to supply and for them to do the jobi was just moaning that they wanted £300 from me for 2 doors and they fitted the complete van for 300 to start with
im not bothered if i dont do the job i wanted them to earn from if as they were happy to supply me the vinyl i didnt want to copy the work they had done
any way the guy has gone away to see how much he will do the job for -
Sorry Rich I hope I didn’t sound like I was criticizing
I was giving my advice and opinions 😀Peter
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Pete its fine i just wanted to say i wanted to get the other sign company to get in on the job
i would never ask for the art work as then i would be able to do multiple jobs and they would lose out
richi still think they were mugging me off after all we all need to make a living
the sign shop that did the work have now gone away and are working on a new price
i think they just thought i would be stuck be if it came to it as people have said i would have just walked away i just wanted to take the problem away from the body shop manager and get the job back on the road as fast as poss with out mugging any onerich 😀 😀 😀 😀
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rich i dont think they are mugging you just the customer or insurance and they aint really doing them selfs a favour are they.
chris
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i think if me or you were in the same position i think to charge £120 – £180
to be fair -
any way origanal question the trouble is its very difficult to copy other peoples prints unless you can see how the image was built up or created and dulicate it.
the other thing i hate about copying some prints is copying a c%ap job when the customer thinks its brill.
chris
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Rich.
I am looking at this from the other side…..
We do a few national fleets and are constantly receiving calls from little bodyshops all over the country wanting replacement decals. That’s fine and we are quite happy to do it, but the costings are quite different to doing the original fleet.
We can probably run off five complete new van kits in the time it takes us to answer the phone to a bodyshop , find out which van they are repairing, ascertain exactly what was fitted to a van three years ago, make a stripe for a nearside front wing or whatever they want, post it out and do the paperwork. We then have to invoice, send a statement or two before we get paid. Consequently replacement parts have to be priced between one and a half and double the cost of the original parts.
As I say, we are more than happy to do it, and consider it to be part of the service we offer to OUR customer, the end user, but it must be paid for.
If you think that’s unreasonable, try buying a replacement panel for a Telwest van. If you get away with having to buy a complete van kit you will do well. Normally the manufacturer will only take orders for ten or more!
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good advice given so far mate…
we used to do allot of this work, not so much out of choice. more being courteous towards a big van company we did allot of work for.
it was the old story… after a few months of being loaded with dozens of full liveried vans each week. we were introduced to the body-shop manager.
after weeks of running backwards and forwards for nothing we had to draw the line.
before i explain…* we drove 10 miles to inspect vehicles in their yard.
* took pics and size.
* sometimes colours wouldn’t match due to vinyl brand
* sometimes artwork HAD to be created from scratch.
* sometimes digital printers were needed.
* return visit, 10 miles…
* fittingthe problem is… sometimes it was a legal address on a door!
how can you justify your cost? you can, but you cant…what i did was instead of saying, OK… “you have a bashed drivers door, and part of side panel.” i would say… “OK, you need “complete” new drivers side to van with our closest colour match and fonts etc.
this didn’t mean we weren’t going to bother with matching, it just meant they weren’t holding a gun to our head if it was out a bit.
colours didn’t need to be 100% as they weren’t on the same side of vehicle.
if colurs had to be matched then they paid 10 metres of vinyl regardless to how much needed. tell them its a minimum qauntity from your supplier… that way you get some new shades in vinyl free too..
the fact you had the full side to do you could afford to charge a bit better and also include fuel, travel etc
digital prints? I would body swerve it mate… that’s unless a digital picture of a digital print wasn’t acceptable. normally it wasn’t, but it kept us in the clear and the garage new shortly after that not to ask if they had a van needing a digi print.at the end of the day, the reason the garage is using you, me or anyone else is to save them money. so they want everything for nothing. even when they want a full van done its “a favour” “we aren’t making anything on this” blah blah blah
if the guys only down the road and you can wangle a full side per repair or full section as opposed to half a word repair then fine. but they should also give you ample time to do it in.
i know you look on this other sign firm as being unreasonable. i would too… but they may look on you as buying time doing the repair now, while you find proper artwork to do full vehicles.
3 weeks ago i was asked by an art gallery for a digital picture i used for one of my brothers pieces or art/work, whatever… 😕
i found it on “istock.com” paid £1 and took me 5 minutes.
i knew when they asked they wanted it so they could source it abroad, in Dallas – USA nearer the gallery that was exhibiting his work. still… i emailed them the file and charged £350 on the basis it was used “only” outside of the UK.anyway… im probably babbling now mate… hope this helps you some…
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I do a lot of work reproducing Vector drawn artwork for body shops. Thing is the bodyshops don’t car how much you charge – they just put a mark up on your price and pass it on to the insurance claim. So vehicle repair work is really quite lucrative. The company I do most work of this type for never use me for their own signwork these days (I’m too expensive 😕 ) but are quite happy to use me for their insurance work.
Digital print is an entirely different matter. As Peter says – you need the original artwork if you are to replicate it properly. My attitude is it is not my problem . I can recreate vector drawn logos with some degree of accuracy – but digital work – forget it 🙄
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i agree with that phill…
but… there IS a limit to what you can charge. the reason i say is… if there wasn’t. why doesn’t the body shop just call the sign company with original artwork?
my guess is:
they will take much longer.
or will charge much more.the only real advantage i have found with doing this sort of work is.
it keeps your customer sweet & the potential for swiping up a good contract/big customer is ineviteably. but that’s few and far between. 😕
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quote Robert Lambie:why doesn’t the body shop just call the sign company with original artwork?
It’s surprising how often bodyshops can’t find out which signshop did the original work. Often even their customer doesn’t know, especially if, for example, the original was organised by a leasing company or similar circumstances.
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Often the bodyshop don’t know who did the original work – otherwise they would quite happily buy it in from the originators – add on their mark up and pass it all on to the insurance company.
If they can get work replicated it saves them the time and effort – and they simply pass the cost on and make a profit from their mark up any way.
The alternative is they hand the van back to their customer un-signed. The customer would rather have the vehicle back with no further work required and the bodyshop would prefer to maximise the profit they make for any repair work.
Charge for your time and don’t feel guilty about it. It is harder to replicate work than it is to cut from an existing file.
Rich – this is not your problem – you need to pass on any costs (plus your mark up) for any work you provide 😀
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the majority of digitial, will never be 100% match, more like 60-70% depending on design and skill level.
If a wrap.. no chance.. each vinly has a different whitepoint and normally custom made pattern, so no chance. -
points taken and thanks for hearing your side
😀 😀 :lol1:
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