-
Fluffing customers!
Just walked up the street, was going to call in at a shop I’d been asked to give a quote on for 3 large boards.
I’d quoted, designed, altered the customers ideas, we’d even got around to choosing vinyl colours, frames etc. I was just waiting on him giving me some more proofs for one of the signs.
Just been past. All signs up, all done in the colours he had chosen with me, all wording done according to the (major) changes I had suggested. He gave me no indication at all that he was unhappy with my quote.
Now I’m mad!
-
39 Replies
-
Lorraine,
I’ve just had a similar experience, someone took my design (including the copyright on it), to another sign company and got the van done.
I had no indication about being unhappy with the design or the quote (i know the other ompany and they charged very similar price for the job, and I guess he liked the design, seen as he got the others to copy it as it was, claiming he had done the design himself).
So, at the moment I’m trying to find out his address, so i can invoice him for breach of copyright.
👿
-
You would think that the other company would have the balls to say no, or to contact you first if there was your copyright on it.
-
quote Lorraine Clinch:You would think that the other company would have the balls to say no, or to contact you first if there was your copyright on it.From my experience, the other company probably saw the artwork already done as a ‘gift’
They probably still charged for it.
Not alot of ethics in this game friends. Once you come to terms with it, you’ll have less disappointment 🙄
It is annoying tho. Had my share of this too over the years. Still annoys me, more because I still get caught.
Some have suggested here in the past that they don’t give the artwork until they come up with a deposit. Does not work for me, but it is a good option to consider.
Most of my artwork is by lo res pdf, wich makes it harder to police. I am starting to put a copyright message in a watermark across the art now. ‘Artwork (C) blah blah… Owned by *my company* until paid for… Seems to slow people down anyway.
-
I know you are right Shane, but it still leaves a sour taste.
It has made me wonder though, about how many of my customers come in with ideas generated from other sign co’s, as they are going around getting quotes.
-
quote Lorraine Clinch:I know you are right Shane, but it still leaves a sour taste.
It has made me wonder though, about how many of my customers come in with ideas generated from other sign co’s, as they are going around getting quotes.
You can pretty well accept that if anyone comes in with a colour printout, then it has probably come from another shop, unless they have a talent for making signs of course.
A simple test… ask them the font names, and can they send you the electronic file. Those that say anthing other than ‘yes’ have probably ‘stolen’ it from another shop.
I’ll always tell them that I’d rather do my own design. If they insist on the one they have in their hand, I ask them straight… which sign shop did this for you? Nearly everytime they will tell you. Being so straight forward catches them off guard.
-
hi, we had a similar experience recently.
a guy turned up with a tipper wagon he wanted signing, he very proudly showed me a copy of a printed outlines with artwork and someone elses company name on it and asked me how much.
I said that i was not prepared to copy the artwork he had but would come up with something new and he got a little peed off, especially when i refused to give him a quote.
very unethical practice, touting some elses work
cheers
stephen -
Thumbs up to you Stephen, as has been said, most people probably would not have taken that route.
-
it frustrates he heck out of me
especially as it has happened to me the other way around, done artwork, customer needs a copy to show “their partner” then you see later that it is done.
I still see a particular van drive past my place every day that i designed but someone else did the job
cheers
stephen -
Lorraine,
Time to send that jagoff a BILL.
And a letter:Dear Sir:
Enclosed please find an invoice for $_______
payable immediately.
This is for design and consultation time.
I am aware that you are now using signs not purchased from my company,
but using my verbiage and layouts.
This is theft of services.
If this invoice is not paid within seven business days,
the next letter you receive will be from my attorney.
Thank you.I’d do it. He’ll probably never pay up, but it will p!ss him off.
Shane has some very good suggestions, and I respect Stephen for his convictions.
Pity all of our fellow sign folk are not as honest.
Yes it has happened to me too.
I feel your anguish.
Love…..Jill -
there’s been similar posts to this before, as i said then i now write down on the quote that the artwork remains the copywrite of ######signs,(artwork meaning : anything i have had to re-draw or have designed, be it from a jpeg etc, and that it is assumed that any copywrite on material supplied for me to redraw has been sought and gained by the customer)
also goes on to mention that the artwork may be purchased after the job is complete for a set price, alternatively, if they just want the artwork it is available at x amount, my quotes on larger jobs also ask for a 50% up front payment to cover design time / material costs, which will be deducted should the order then be cancelled,
only failed me once, the guy didnt want to sign it off and pay a depo on a £300 job, i didnt know him n figured something was up, i sure as hell wasnt about to give him my 4hours worth of art for nothing, never heard from him again, though his mate who was with him came and had another van done !!
-
I ask for a £30 fee for designing the layout, the layout can be changed till the customer is satisfied with the design.
If I don`t see them again, I`ve got a few quid for my time.
I find that if the customer is genuine, they will pay, if they wriggle out of it, they are just being noisey and I don`t want those kind of customers anyway. I lose too much time on @rse holes as it is.
get rid of the timewasters straight away and give your genuine customers a quality service they deserve.
-
Deposit!!
Clients that are serious and have every intention of using you and your services won’t normally balk about giving you a deposit. I’ve learned this the hard way. Sorry it had to happen to you Lorraine. We’ve all been down this road before.
Send them a bill and see what happens.Stevo
-
Jill, I wish I had half your courage! I would love to be that hard-assed (but I’m not, which is why I’ll go through life whingeing, I guess).
I had supplied several print-outs on headed paper, but not actually water-marked.
Out of interest, can I have a few ball-park figures on the signs, to see if I was way out?
3 signs, on 5mm opaque green acrylic, all with panatrim frames. 7-year vinyl. LOTS of writing, some outlined also.
sizes: 1 x 141″ x 24″: 1 x 31″ x 75″: 1 x 22.5 x 79″.
Also signage applied to shop window. Total I quoted, incl. fitting: £915.00
Was I really way out? I haven’t had to quote for anything this large before, so was quite in the dark.
BTW, was paying £450 +vat just for the boards & frames, before vinyls etc.
-
Lorraine.
GET HARD ASSED or get run ragged by these clowns.
You can fire customers, just as they can shop around for lower prices.I too was “meek & mild” when I first started out. Gave loads of money away on these Diaries salesmen.
Spent ages on the phone lissening to the sales talk etc.Get used to saying NO THANK YOU. and then slam the door shut or phone down, and get on with earning some money to pay the bills & feed the kids etc.
-
I appreciate a customer choosing which is the best deal, however if they steal your design and reproduce with another sign makers then that can be considered as theft of Copyright.
However, if the customer supplied a logo on either Paper/File then they own the copyright. If you planned out the logo with phone numbers and so forth in your own way (no guides) then it is your copyrighted design with their logo.
Most of our customers don’t actually own their logos, our company does so we are very protective on this, however when it does happen we end up invoicing companies with time taken/losses. However if it is not your layout/design then you have just have to obsorb it.
I am sorry.
-
Happened to me as well, spent hours, days and weeks with one guy but couldnt get him to sign off the order, heard nothing for a couple of weeks and then spotted his van with my design plastered all over it, but very badly done 😀 Made me smile really as the person hed gone to with my design had made a hash of it and probably didnt get paid either
-
“Fluffing Clients”
I know I shouldn’t ask as this is a serious topic… But is fluffing clients a common occurance in the UK? I mean if a shop had each client properly fluffed why would they go anywhere else?
On a serious note, I feel your pain. This happens everywhere. I also enjoy it when a potential client shows another shop your quote so they have a chance to beat it.
Rob
-
quote RobGF:“Fluffing Clients”
I know I shouldn’t ask as this is a serious topic… But is fluffing clients a common occurance in the UK? I mean if a shop had each client properly fluffed why would they go anywhere else?
:lol1:
This happens everywhere. I also enjoy it when a potential client shows another shop your quote so they have a chance to beat it.
(?)
Rob
I’d still like some feedback as to whether I was way off in my quote please?
-
quote Lorraine Clinch:I’d still like some feedback as to whether I was way off in my quote please?
Sorry. Saw the title and couldn’t resist. I’m the last person to ask about the quotation. Different market, different currency, etc. I do think the way your potential client behaved was quite lame and I sympathize.
Rob
-
thing is, a lot of customer approach us to better someone else’s quote… it’s evil society though… however most of the time we design it completly differently.
-
It’s a pain, but thats life. try and look at it from the other side.
Do you accept the first insurance quote you get? or the first price given by a van dealer? No of course you dont. And whats more, you are probably quite happy to tell the competition what the quote was so that you may get a better price.
No matter that the person selling the product has to spend time asking you questions. Typing out a quote and posting it.
And do you ever call the insurance broker, van dealer and thank them for their time, but you are buying elsewhere?Business is business, and as in life look after your own, nobody else will.
😀 😀
peter -
quote Peter Normington:It’s a pain, but thats life. try and look at it from the other side.
Do you accept the first insurance quote you get? or the first price given by a van dealer? No of course you dont. And whats more, you are probably quite happy to tell the competition what the quote was so that you may get a better price.
No matter that the person selling the product has to spend time asking you questions. Typing out a quote and posting it.
And do you ever call the insurance broker, van dealer and thank them for their time, but you are buying elsewhere?Business is business, and as in life look after your own, nobody else will.
😀 😀
peterI understand where you are coming from Peter, but not when artwork is copied and not paid for.
Insurance, van sales etc are all prepriced on a spreadsheet probably, they have not had to sit down and be creative.
I have no problem with my physical quote being shopped around, because I have not devoted an hour or two in my time to be creative, but to have someone else benefit from my experience and artwork colour design.
I think that is entirely different.
Lorraine no good with the pricing either, same reasons as rob.
The fact that no one has answered could mean that your expensive and no one is game enough to tell you, or that your on the money and no one sees the need to charge any different. 😛
-
No Shane,
what I am saying is dont do owt for nowt.
Dont let designs go without charge or a deposit.
Look after yourself, but be prepared to loose sometimes,
Thats how it goes.
Salespeople do need to make a living, and some are artists in selling, so their time does have a value.
Peter -
we ask for a deposit “when we can” by that i mean stranger comes in and we chin them for an artwork fee. rather than deposit… we then say once they go ahead with signs it will be deducted from the overall bill. so artwork is actually free… if that makes sense? 😕
sometimes we still get stung… even after 23 years trading 🙄 (not me of course. I’m only 15 yrs in it 😉 )
it doesn’t happen often, but does happen. like Jill says. bill them hard! some will pay, while others will just learn not to try it again, but still not pay up.
its just reality in our game, we need to live with it, but take precaution to prevent and have a pan “B” when you get stung. just helps deal with the whole situation a bit better 😕 :lol1:regarding the pricing, sorry, thats not my strong area.
one thing though, was perspex etc the “only” material you could use?
the signage that is up… is this defo perspex etc? -
Hi Lorraine
Seems I am the only one brave enough to give you an idea of what we would charge.
Supply & fit everything you quoted £1240.00+VAT
Kind regards
Alex
(mod-edit) admin@uksignboards.com -
hi alex
how the devil are you mate? long time…. good to see you active again. missed the chats from the past… i spotted you a few nights ago posting but thought it maybe a flash in the pan… great to see you active on the boards mate & hope business is good…if you need to contact me or go over anything, feel free to contact me admin@uksignboards.com 😀
-
Hi Rob
We have been really busy now for a quite some time so I cannot complain the only reason I have not been on here is my phone line at home plays up and I have not been able to get broadband working. I do look in from time to time at work but do not have much time to post replys. Anyway hopefully if the phone line stays ok I should be around for a while yet :lol1: Hope all is well with you and your business as everything seems to be a lot busier on the boards.
Best wishes
Alex
-
great stuff alex, glad to hear it and look forward to seeing more of you on the site mate. 😛 😉
sorry i have run this thread off topic… please ignore 😕 😀
-
Lorraine, I would ask a bit more than that for the work you describe. Probably about £1200
As for customers nicking your artwork and giving it away….break their legs.
-
Hi lorraine,
don’t know where in the country you are or what your market is like, but I am with Andy on this from what you have said I would be charging £1200.00 to £1400.00 + vat for thisLynn
-
I agree with Andy & Lynn, we would have charged more. As Rob said is the job done in exactly the same materials as what you quoted on … perhaps they went elsewhere and used cheaper substrates??
Annoying though especially when you put time into it!! We all get them though so you are not alone 😉
😀
-
The sign boards definitely look like perpex/acrylic, have that ‘almost glassy’ look. Everything else the same too, right down to the sizes.
The co. that did them are a larger outfit than mine, several employees etc, but a nice enough lot, I popped in once for a quote on something. They are about 10 miles away.
Thanks for prices everyone, nice to know I was too cheap if anything!
-
quote Peter Normington:No Shane,
what I am saying is dont do owt for nowt.
Dont let designs go without charge or a deposit.
Look after yourself, but be prepared to loose sometimes,
Thats how it goes.
Salespeople do need to make a living, and some are artists in selling, so their time does have a value.
PeterBoy you sound like my dad Peter. I can close my eyes and see him saying those exact works.
You are right of course. My dad always taught me that people older than you are always right until proved otherwise. Just wish my kids subscribed to the same theory 🙁
-
Lorraine, I got crapped on so many times by clients that I’ve developed quite a hard shell.
It is not hard-assed, however, to write a polite note asking for what you DESERVE.
My dad was a very fine man, a magistrate for many years.
He always told me that when you want results, write a letter.
Go for it!
What have you got to lose?
He already stole your ideas.
Love…..Jill -
Lorraine, been in same position only worse,
I had traveled from Nth Linc’s to Derbyshire TWICE to take measurements for new signs (they changed their minds on position of signs) for a chain of chemist shops that I had been working for all over the country.
To keep this short, sent them a bill for £75 for traveling time (no where near enough ££££s) as I was that p–sed that had gone to another sign shop to have it done.30 days later cheque arrived but no apology. (shows they felt guilty)
L J
-
I agree with these coments. You don’t have to be nasty, just to the point.
The only explanation you need to give is that your designs were used by another shop. Enclose copies of your designs with your invoice, and a photo of the finished job.
It is only going to cost you the price of a stamp.
As a side comment. ‘Fluffing’ in OZ is another term for breaking wind!. Just thought I’d mention it
-
Hi Shane, I’m back! Not on my computer though, so not able to upload pic.
Hmm. ‘Farting Customers’! Doesn’t have quite the same ring somehow 😎 😳
Ohh, I think there may have been a small pun in there 😀Edit:I love the way this programme changes the swear words! I did write f*rting!!!! :lol1:
-
quote Lorraine Clinch:Hi Shane, I’m back! Not on my computer though, so not able to upload pic.
Hmm. ‘( pardon me ) Customers’! Doesn’t have quite the same ring somehow 😎 😳
Ohh, I think there may have been a small pun in there 😀Edit:I love the way this programme changes the swear words! I did write f*rting!!!! :lol1:
Every time I look at the heading of this thread, I can’t help but smile Lorraine. Must be my sick humour 🙄
-
There’s quite a lot within the whole forum thing (on this site) that makes me laugh out loud! People think I’m quite mad when they hear me. Mind you, they wouldn’t be too far wrong! 😀
Log in to reply.