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EU Working at Height Regulation
Hi All
Does any body know of this new EU regulation – Working at Height Regulation – and what it means to sign makers.
Regards
Lee -
38 Replies
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The End 🙁
Dave
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I hope it doesn’t come into force as I’m only 3 foot 2″
….and what about Rob? -
when Rob empties all that change outta his pockets, he stands an impressive 5’6″ !!
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Haven’t heard anything about it but if its the same as HSE ones fall arrestors at any height over 2m must be supplied and worn.
Goop
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This is something that affects us all. Quite frankly I am baffled after reading this about new legislation and I am now unsure as to what I can and can’t do legally. I do not employ anyone (Alison and I are partners in the business) so I’m not even sure if this legislation actualy applies in our case.
I have been making and fitting signs for nearly ten years now and have never injured myself when fitting a sign. I have to ask – do I really need government legislation to protect myself from myself 😕 It just makes the process of trying to make a living running your own business that bit more difficult 😥
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Phill,
Look on the bright side, if you are fitting a sign on a companies premises, fall of the cherry picker and break a leg or one of your necks,
because of the legislation, you can sue the client for allowing you to be stupid.
They are responsible for idiots on their premises, thats why they need to satisfy themselves that you are not stupid.if that makes sense
Peter -
PS phill.
Not implying you are stupid or an idiot,
I sometimes post, re-read and then realise that like a carry on film my words may be double entendre 😕
Peter -
quote Peter Normington:Phill,
Look on the bright side, if you are fitting a sign on a companies premises, fall of the cherry picker and break a leg or one of your necks,
because of the legislation, you can sue the client for allowing you to be stupid.
They are responsible for idiots on their premises, thats why they need to satisfy themselves that you are not stupid.if that makes sense
PeterNot only that but you’re implying that I’m some kind of freaky monster that has more than just one head 😕
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No phill
only one head, I know you have a brass neck, and one you stick out 😀only joe king
Peter
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who necks please?
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:lol1: :lol1: :lol1:
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Goops right over 2m…… plus a hand rail when working from trestles…. can’t work from a ladder – access only [one hand for yourself] etc etc
CSCS – IPAF – PASMA had to do them but remembering everything is hard…… -
My mate has just had the HSE numpties around. They are doing the rounds of signmakers in our area at the moment. Anyway, when I went in to see him last week all his stepladders were in the skip outside! It seems you need to build scaffolding to change a bloody lightbulb these days! Providing you are qualified to build it, of course!
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andy,
how did he manage to put the stepladders in the skip, without scaffolding :headbang2:Peter
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that’s it Andy……. as the morning window cleaners jump their ledges 😀
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I’ve seen the hand rail type staging and tressles in Sign mags
Look pretty good – although I don’t know how safe they would be if you leant against them -
interesting comments here… I think without reading the directive it is clear that Sign makers have to start making decisions about this.
Might bring back the costs involved with running a cherry picker thread.
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Its HSE all gone mad
Now painters & decs have to have full scaffold to paint a house
It can be more a hindrance than a help, besides being a source of worry to the householder whilst this stuff is hanging up around their gaff for two or three weeksand anyway what about the risk of erecting scaffold? Its a tricky job
Will the HSE have ideas for these guys where an element of risk is inherent in the job -
Posted this link earlier.
http://www.paramotor.com/
Who needs scaffolding? -
Dave most of us work for our selves, do you really think we would take major risks to earn a crust for today, and nothing for tommorow ?
Lynn
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John,
so we will need scaffolding to erect scaffolding? -
Exactly my point Peter
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I have heard, it may be heresay, but the most common accident caused by height, is when a worker looks down to the street below, and his hard hat falls off and hits a pedestrian!!
Peter -
AAAhh Cherry Picker IPAF
Fall Arrestor to be worn…… Hi-Vis…..Safety Boots & Hard Hat….. 2m Fall Arrestor….you’re 6′ tall working with a 2M standard Fall Arrestor working at a height just over 2M [the magic safe height]..you’re head hits the deck before it can work 😕
John, the PASMA course ensures that all types of generic scaffolding can be erected safely [a one day course] 😕
competent user is always a key phrase
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I am a competant user of trestles and a 3m platform, best thing a bought, fast to put up gives a great length to work on before having to move it along for the next bit of a sign.
Saves loads of time, but I suppose I will have to invest in a hand rail next year, which will ofcourse increase the time to erect/dismantle it all.
Dave
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What are the regulations concerning stilts?
don’t laugh, this is a serious question, plasterers do use them.
peter
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Aye but they are not over 2m.
Dave
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So where does th 2m start, from foot level?
that cant be right because then uder eu rules dwarfs would be discriminated, because the cant reach as high as midgets, 😀
Peter -
I know plasterers over two metres
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it is a daft one hey ! Like AB says, i’m best part of 2m tall, am i really gona put a fall arrestor in the wall at a height that it will catch me ? surely i’d need a 4m ladder to reach a safe anchor point ! and how silly would i feel dangling 2ft off the ground screaming !!??!?!? 😀 steel boots ? think i’m more worried about my head than my toes when falling from a massive 2m height !
on a more serious note, what kinda money do these gantry platform things cost ? my one serious downfall here, is that my company vehicle is a sloon car, fine for getting most signs into, but nowt else more tha a step ladder, i cant even put a woof wack on it (not built to have one… to fast 😉 ) so it would mean having to buy a van just to carry a platform.
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Working at height regulations are not a problem to me because we gave up fitting signs years ago when I decided that the aggro and expense of an accident wasn’t worth the risk. Any erection work we have is subbed out.
As for HSE visits, they shouldn’t be a problem either. My premises are a dangerous environment for government busybodies, so their own health and safety regulations should prevent them from crossing my threshold. 😀
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quote John Childs:so their own health and safety regulations should prevent them from crossing my threshold. 😀Nice one John.
I used to work at an engineer and frequently went onto quarries, power stations and cement works, ladders have been banned from sites like these for years, we always had to have a scaffolding tower.
Once you get used to them they are great, as Dave said they are easy to erect and are much better to work from anyway. I would always use a hand rail and kick boards with them though.
Last time I checked it was about £60/day to hire one and you can usually have them delivered.
Steve
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quote Stephen Morriss:Once you get used to them they are great, as Dave said they are easy to erect and are much better to work from anyway. I would always use a hand rail and kick boards with them though.
That’s absolutely right Steve, but the problem is that it doesn’t end with paying the sixty quid. Who erects the tower? Have they been on a course for it? Are they qualified? Is their certificate still current?
So, the HSE inspectors are going around this area are they? I bet they don’t come around here, which is a pity because I’m in the mood for a fight today.
Grrrrrrr. 🙁
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Good to see you guys are wrestling with these issues too.
Our laws here dictate that to erect a sign that will have a finshed height of over 3m, we have to have a builders license (that is a license to build houses 👿 ) That includes digging the hole or puting a sign on a building face, the same thing.
To get a builders licence is a 600hr TAFE course (4 years).
Even if the sign has engineers spec, you still need the license 🙄
Or you can pay a builder to sign off on the job, and that costs a fortune!
Some half brain politition with a legal background thought up these rules to help his mates in the private legal sector I’m sure 👿
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Hugh wrote:
quote :my one serious downfall herenice one Hugh 😀
That’s crazy Shane
Those laws would certainly close a lot of us down 😕 -
I should clarify my comment John, it is a queensland law, but each state is looking at the same or similar legislation.
Probably the most disappointing is that the sign association here is going along with it, in the interests of ‘weeding out the cowboys’. No coincedence I think that the members of the comittee that originally wrestled with this issue head sign companies with 15 or more employees, and can afford to employ a builder.
I am not convinced they really thought too much about the little guy, although I know plenty of fellow sign association members that would argue with me.
They did do a ‘deal’ with the government I’m told, that you can only get a license if you are a sign association member. That way, they ensure their existance.
I don’t mean to be too negative here, the guys that put their hand up for the responability to negotiate with the government should be applauded, but I sometimes wonder that they forgot their roots so to speak.
I am a paid up sign association member, but see very little ‘value for my membership’ although I don’t doubt for a minute that they would be horrified at my suggestion it is a big boys club….
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Just seen Sign Express fitting a sign 4-5 meters up from a ladder, is this allowed under the EU reg?
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I have not looked at the new regulation in depth, since I find the Approved Code Of Practice more useful than the regulations. The regulations are usually meaningless, and quote no values, whereas the ACOP details good working practice.
I found the following on a Health and Safety Forum:
When the WAH Regulations came into effect the HSE said: “Those following good practice for work at height will already be doing enough to comply with the new regulations”. I.E. the regulations were no big deal. They were not introduced because the HSE thought they were necessary, they were introduced because Brussels required it. In a well run company, if ladders were good enough for a job before the Regulations came into effect, they should be good enough afterwards.
My understanding is that if you carry out a risk assessment for working up a ladder, and can do so with out risk to yourself or to others, then there should be no reason to continue to do so.
My advice would be to secure the ladder, top and bottom if possible, ensure that equipment and materials can be handled safely, and not to try and work at arms length away from the ladder. There are some wonderful gadgets for stabilizing ladders. Please also make sure that your ladders and steps are in a good condition. Even better if you have an inspection logbook!
Ivan
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