-
whats peoples views on the difference between led’s & ne
following the comments made in Robs GVR hairdressers thread, which looks surperb rob, regarding led’s and neon.
it would be interesting to get the views of everybody here, this debate has been hotting up a bit lately in the neon trade. As a glassbender i’m obviously biased towards neon, but appreciate led’s do have their place in the sign industry and these or some other technolgy will no doubt at sometime replace neon, although the best part of a century of neon it is by no way ready to be replaced. LED companies are certainly pushing the product hard, but the annoying thing is the brightness/cost claims in comparison to neon are simply a sales ploy and rarely offer any truth. As neon wizard says we do not know how reliable they are in weather extremes because they’ve not been there long enough.
It would be interesting to hear the views and experiences of any companies that have neon facilities and actively use led’s if there are any?Craig
-
8 Replies
-
Craig, this subject has been the subject of much debate internally here, we have our own neon shop but do use LED’s on occasion – I’m going to wait and see what’s said here before I throw my tuppence woth in (coz I’m a gobby coward!)
-
I have not had any experience with neon myself but have just done this our first LED job. All the customer wanted was for the halo to be seen at night. I was a bit apprehensive at first that it would have the desired effect and was worried that the red halo would not be strong enough. Needless to say all my worries were unfounded
Sorry guys but I don’t know why the pics link only linked the the hosts front page and not to the pics directly
ROB, Where has the facility for the pics to be uploaded directly from my PC gone!!! 😥 😕
-
will reply a little later guys sorry, having yet more beers… 😮
mike, sorry mate, only certain forums have fascilities for files to be uploaded.
any probs etc let me know.. ill se what i can do. 😉 -
I have an electronics company that specialises iin LEDs for the last 16 years. The reliability of LEDs under any conditions is without question. However, signs are about appearances. We have installed many neon signs but only two LED signs, one was installed with LEDs because the test was so thin it was all we could fit in, this one worked OK but was a bit dotty the other was a big sign which we put £1000 worth of leds in and it looke d crap (in fact you could hardly see it light up at night) if we had put £500 worth of neon in it would have shone for 100s of yards
I would be very careful about putting leds in any but the samllest of signs
REgards Adrian
-
An important thing to consider is the application, there is no choice in some instances, for example a 3″ illuminated letter, the choice could only be led. Delineating a building with exposed tubes could only be effectively acheived with neon. Where the debate begins is where the application is suitable for both, for example a 500mm high 150mm stroke built up white face illuminated letter, i believe both can do the job, but to get comparable even light output, which do you choose ?? It would be interesting to know how much this example would cost in led’s and what the running costs are? backed up with lumen output data.
craig
-
Hi All
I dont for one minute have the answers to this LED v NEON debate. I know that the neon trade is trying to fight back. I think sign companies should ask themselves some questions before deciding whether to use one above the other.
Do i need a hi output illumination?
Which is better for outside use?
Which is the safest?
Which one has the longest life span? (thats a good one for debate)
I would say neon is the real thing but i would say that. i dont know the answers so maybe someone can help on that.
Cheers 😀
-
Like I have said guys, i’m clearly no expert and only reply here, based on my playing around the last few weeks with the led’s that i have used and what I have read-up on since sign UK this year.
So far, I agree, led’s installed in any, front lit or halo lit, it gives “ bright” exaggerated dots where each led is located. Ways to combat this is, for face lit, move the led further back from the face. But, what if the return is only 2inch? No chance!
Use denser translucent Perspex? Possibly… but I haven’t tried.
Having said that, I have been able to see neon tube through the face of letters, but because it’s a continuous tube, it’s not just as obvious or unattractive.
unlike neon, LED’s cant be used to outline a letter or for being used to make up the form of a letter using only the raaw bulb, like we see all over the place in chip shops and the like.
well they could be, i guess, but just dont give same appearance/effect. i think you know what i mean anyway? 😕 :lol1:Halo lit using led’s? Again, depending on how close these to the back board you see the reflection of the leds on the panel face, when looked at from one side. More apparent when it’s a gloss face. The way to combat this for me, was to insert a plastic filter in the letter. When I did this the filter took on the role of spreading the light but basically created hundreds of smaller dots, but again, because these were continuous it looked good. Once installed, it was perfect! I think if I had used neon in the back the same would have to be done to hide the neon tube reflecting on the backing face?
Over all thoughts, great!Brightness? Well I don’t ”think” the led’s are as bright but that’s not sitting them next to each other to compare, I just don’t think they are.
Overall/continuous light? I think the led’s do well, but I think that depends on the application & the led’s used. For instance the ones I used have about 24 led’s in a 12 inch strip, were as other led suppliers have a different sort of led but used every 2-3 inches apart.Like has been said so far. Led’s have got to be the way to go for small signs- built ups etc the letters I did yesterday are about 11 or 12 inch high. I have to say I was delighted by how bright they were. A letter “G” would cost approx £17 in led’s. I don’t know how that compares with neon but I had the led’s in it in 10 mins by myself.
Depending on how many led’s your illuminating, the prices vary on the transformer needed to illuminate.Life expectancy is around 100 thousand. Yes, I know fine well these are accelerated laboratory conditions, so take that with a pinch of salt I guess. But it does give you an idea that they will last for many years. (Only time will tell I guess)
Running costs? Again from memory I have read that for a 12 inch strip of led’s compared to a 12 inch strip of neon, the led’s have a lower running cost. Exactly what those are, I don’t know or if the info was accurate?For me, led’s allow me to dabble in illuminating signs without the use of a light box.
For illuminating letters etc the only other alternative for me is neon. But this means I need to then wait for the neon to be made. Pay higher outlay up front & I can’t make in-house. I cannot maintain on site for my customer unless I get the neon company to go out to my customer. This can be costly!
I suppose this is NOT a down side of neon or for the neon maker, more a downside for our/the company, that cannot make neon. (Hope that makes sense?)
I think that the popularity of LED’s today may lye here more than it actually being better or brighter.ive rabbled on there and jumped back and forth, i know :lol1: i need food :lol1: be back soon 😉
-
Regarding a given length of led being as bright as neon, often the comparison is made between the brightest led and a lower lumen output phosphur neon tube, and also they are usually very optimistic on the amount of leds required to illuminate a give area correctly.
But the latter points made by rob is where i believe leds ultiminately win, not because they’re better, but because anybody can use them. The only downside i can see to this, is we may begin to see lots of far from perfect illuminated signs constructed by people without experience in illumination, thats not saying you don’t see bad neon, but i can honestly say majority of neon companies in the uk are good. Cost wise if you make neon yourself it is far cheaper.
Log in to reply.