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Best Vinyl to use in Cadet solvent printer?
Hi, it would be useful if anyone using a Cadet could tell us what the best vinyl is to run through the printer?
We are currently using metamark vinyl but this seems to be really thin and we are having alot of problems with it streching when applying large full colour graphics.Any help would be appreciated 😀
Regards, Joe
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8 Replies
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By the way this problem occurs when we are floating large prints on aluminium, the edges also curl, we have left the prints for around 24 hrs after printing before we use them.
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This is a problem that occurs with solvent and eco-sol printers , the solvent inks attack the vinyl and thin it , worse with very agressive solvents. Using “thicker” vinyl helps a bit , allowing more curing time doesnt help at all and in fact can worsen it. We have found Grafitak S22P (181) is a good overall solution. The thinner polymeric cast vinyls are the worst offenders here. Be VERY careful about printing a dark colour and cutting on a bleed line when doing decals , the edges at the cut line curl and it gets worse in time , the decal seems to shrink. The more agressive the ink , the worse it is. One solution is to aply a paper based application tape as soon as possible , the paper based tape makes it easier to apply , wont strip the print and allows any residual solvent to gas out and doesnt allow the graphic to shrink.
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i spoke with a 3M rep today from wm smith.
they also offer retrama vinyl aswell as the 3M for the cadet printer.
i also beleive they sell a wide range of retrama digital vinyl.. worth a call for prices i would think.
if you have a cadet then a bonus for calling them is that they can & will supply you with profiles for their vinyls. (not all printers at the moment) but i do know they have cadet profiles.
the person to ask for is “Mark Brown” at Wm Smith. mention that i have given you his name and that if you use his vinyl you require CADET profiles for them. he will sort you out no problem.another company offering profiles for their vinyls is Grafityp.
again, it would be worth the call because i know they have a wide range in vinyls aswell as grafiwrap (vehicle wrap vinyl & laminate) -
Cheers Guys
We will give it a whirl! we are really pleased with the cadets quality and find that the troop rip is dead simple to use.
We have only had the Cadet for a few weeks so we still have a lot to learn, we purchased the machine from Impact Sign Solutions who so far has provided us with an excellent service and we are so glad we didn’t by the Roland.
Thanks again!
John & Joe
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i use a cadett and use kmpf from litchfield when i ordered my cadett i was ringing round for info and they sent me free samples of there range to practic on plenty to do too vans lol
i also laminate though so it lasts out doors.
0870 121 1286
free sample cant grumble shame they dont do free ink.
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This might sound silly, but don’t the manufacturers of the Cadet have a recommended vinyl for it? 😕 No idea what I’m on about so I’ll shut up now 🙄
Cheers, Dewi
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dave did you get FREE profiles for the kpmf wrap too mate?
dewi, b&p do have their own range of vinyls profiled for the machines.
and comes with the machine preloaded on their software.
the down side is some folk have vinyl preference, i prefer oracal to the uniform 5-7 year vinyls offererd. price is another thing, as a group member i buy my vinyl far cheaper than say joe bloggs.
so at the end of the day i want my machine to print onto “my” vinyl & not be limited to one source.
i think this is the issue many folk are having with printers. not just uniform range but all printers. -
This is a legacy/perceptual problem from those that come from a cutter environment in that the traditional sign vinyl you used on cutters is not really suitable or even desireable to use on a printer but one initially want to use “what you know works”
However there are differences.
Digital print vinyls are often a LOT cheaper than the same signage stuff cos they are supplied in bulk sealed rolls Even Identical materials supplied to cutting guys and printing guys differ.
In the first place a print vinyl will have a different backing , it has to be non hygroscopic and must not promote cockling or rucking , it will also be on a suitable core. The vinyl surface is generally devoid of any coating , oils , fingerprints etc The rolls are wound with constant tension and in a dust free environment as well. So for example the Grafityp S22p is the same vinyl as their 181 series , but over here is cheaper than the 181 and prints better. Cost of media should also not really be an issue , a tried and tested media for your printer is more economical to use than switching back and forth between various brands and having to try profile them etc. Apart from which , should you mess too much with media , you will have major problems a while down the line when your customers come back for repeats and your repeats arent identical to the originals.The idea is not to use your regular vinyl suppliers , but get the reps of the various digital media suppliers to call and leave samples and/or profiles. (perhaps your regular supplier has branched into digital , but even then , they would generally seperate those in terms of sales and the regular sign vinyl salesperson might not be able to give the best advice)
At the end of it all , even the profiles that you get are not optimized. If you start off with a generic Vinyl profile , it’s pretty easy to tweak it to get better results than some of the supplied profiles. A profile is a starting and not an ending point , it has been created using a certain RIP with a particular machine with a particular firmware and in a particular environment. Even if the ambient temperature in your shop differs to that in which the profile was created , your printing might not be the same or indeed , the profile doesn’t even work properly.
In essence , you need to manually calibrate the media as to feed (IE there is a compensation factor applied to the feed for the specific medias characterisitics , some are thicker , creep etc) and the only reliable way is to calibrate ON YOUR MACHINE!!!!
Your next step is to fine tune ink loading. That is to set the total ink limits of the machine. Too little ink results in banding , hazy output and colour mismatching and decreased durability (less inks = easier to damage) Too much ink results in tacky prints , vinyl attack , dot gain problems and no ways to even try linearize the machine as to colours etc.
You might find that a supplied profile does work acceptably , but a the end of it all , these machines are capable of stunning work and you owe it to yourself to get it right.
KEEP A BOOK!!!!!!!!!!! This is of UTMOST importance , record all changes in profiles and confiigurations for various media and record EXACTLY what you have done for a particular customer , rename the profile you used under their name and keep a sample of the print!!! – This is VITAL!!!! Doesnt seem important when you start out , but you can lose your way big time if you don’t.
People , the digital media guys are queuing up to get your business and its far more cutthroat than sign vinyl , everyone is hoping to get the max market penetration and will give amazing deals as well as showing you new medias etc. Not one of the big digital printers in our city who print vinyl will do so on bog standard sign stuff. 5-7 year vinyls are also a little bit of a waste , unless they are better printable than anything else as the graphics , even lammed , will not last anywhere near 5 years unless in a protected environmen.
If the environment is protected , then there is no need for the glues to be rated at 5-7 years??
Your no 1 consideration is how well the vinyl prints and its white point and translucency , then its a shrinakge thing , and only of you are doing wraps is it a conformability thing and even so , you still have to consider the overlam when comforming. We generally find something that works and stick to it.
Put aside a fair amount of money for fiddling and media stock. In terms of white vinyl alone , we use 4 different media. We also use matt gold , matt silver , shiny gold , shiny silver and a few other “lighter” colours – so in vinyl alone we use about 10-12 varieties
In terms of paper , we have about 7 different types varying in weight , surface finish , tear resistance and so forth.
We also use mesh , about 4 different banner materials , vellum , 3 different backlits , 1 front/backlit , 2 blockouts and a few other’s. This translates to about 30 specific medias and a 25/50m roll of any of em isnt cheap. Ordering smaller rolls often menas you dont get the vinyl on a core or it has been rolled out and thus is now dusty , no longer tensioned and using it coreless will often not allow the vinyl to run true and straight. Some that you use constantly you have to stock in multiple rolls too. They must be stored in a moisture free environment , if the backing absorbs moisture , you cannot rely on feed calibration and are almost guaranteed to get cockling as it goes over the heaters.
Lams too are subject to this “stock holding” thing , cold lams come in various grades and various surface finishes , best to start with is cast conformable clear and a soft matt. We keep stock of hot and cold lams in various grades , thicknesses etc as well as keeping mounting films and some other stuff – all in all , around 20 or so.
Also make VERY sure you have extra ink carts , and DONT buy full sets as usage is not even over a set , we use far more magenta than cyan and far more of that over yellow and far less black than any other colour. The usage depends on the rip and what you print , but its NOT even. If you run outa inks 1/2 way thru a job , it’s a nightmare.
All of these materials can consume a vast sum of money , you can order as needed , but it becomes a nightmare.
Cookster , I can’t quite understand why you are glad you didn’t buy a Roland – you did buy one , its just modified to take solvent inks? I bought an unmodified original Roland soljet and have made money from day 1 and a year down the line have nothing but satisfied customers and a machine that works flawlessly with access to the latest firmware updates etc. Apart from which , profiles for various media are far more readily available for an OEM machine and any so called “durability” issues are non issues in my year of operation with this machine.
Dewi , rob , etc in respect of using “approved” vinyls , its a FANTASTIC idea initally as you really don’t have to experiment and your ROI begins immediately. After one has got to grips with the RIP , how it works , what setting affects others etc , then its time to cast one’s eyes further afield. If you dont go that route and immediatly want to doyour “own thing” , then you have to be prepared to pay the school fees associated with it. Personally , I was never keen on using “approved” stuff for a few reasons, mostly cos of availibilty not really cost.
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