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Doing it for myself
After working as a designer for a while now I really want to make the stuff I design rather than spend my life playing with pixels. I’ve got myself a shop (with a workshop), a decent sized van, a pc, digital camera, an A3+ laser proof printer and a large helping of enthusiasm, but to start working in the production side of the sign/print industry I’d like to buy a vinyl cutter, a risograph and possibly a guillotine. Can anyone offer me some advice on what machines I should be looking at / what machines I shouldn’t be looking at? I’ve read alot of posts here recommending specific machines, but I am a little confused to the different sizes of vinyl cutters in particular.
Cheers, Dewi
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18 Replies
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Hi Dewi,
Try RCS for a riso their prices are alot cheaper than list.
As for cutters, 610mm or 24inch is the most common size ( i think) 🙂
do you want to buy a new cutter or used?chris
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Hi Dewi,
‘scuse my butting in, but whats a Risograph?
I just looked on ebay and it seems pretty much like a laser printer come photocopier.
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I suppose that depends a great deal on which direction or how involved with the sign industry you want to become.
From your comments it would seem that you are going to mix/combine printing and signmaking.
This might be possible if the sign making side was kept to handling small jobs. If you really wanted to dive into the signmaking full swing you may find trying to handle both print and signmaking a little taxing. Especially as you are just starting out on your own.
Why I say this is because as you venture down the road of signmaking you will meet more and more challenges and you will grow to accept more and more challenges.
You will begin to take on jobs that perhaps you would never have visualised doing before but as your confidence grows you will tackle them.
This means that in order to do justice to the progress you will be making you will inevitably be required to fully commit yourself in time, effort and resources.
That’s why many signmakers, though they have the capability to do other things, will make one trade the main thrust of their concentration.
That said most signmakers will start of with a vinyl cutter set up. And iI believe that most signmakers on the board here use 610mm plotters.
The rolls are easier to handle and of course you can stock more colours this way
John
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Chris, Thank you for the size info. I really don’t mind too much whether it is new or used. From what I’ve read so far, the price difference between new and used isn’t a fortune, so I guess new would be better, what with the guarentees and free software. I’ve looked at so many different types of cutter though, its a tad confusing for a newbie to decide on which one is the most effective.
Magpie, a Risograph is basically a high-speed copier (churns about 130 copies out every minute) but as well as scanning like a photocopier it can be connected directly to your PC, which is nice. Most use them for small leaflet runs or NCR sets I believe.
Cheers, Dewi
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Bizarre, I was writing my reply to Chris & Magpie as you posted your reply John 🙂
I am considering mixing the signmaking with printing, mostly because I understand how the printing works, I already have existing clients who I design for and I could offer them a more complete service and to be honest I’m not overly confident I can do what you guys do. By running the 2 side by side I was hoping I could maybe ease myself into signmaking, learn as much as possible, practise and hopefully gain the skills and experience that most people here have.
The strangest thing is, since I started considering signmaking, I’ve been looking at every sign I see in a different way, almost mentally disecting it, wondering how it is done. I just figured until I could do that, and confidently say ‘Yes, I can do that’, it’d be a little rude to the professionals (ie ppl here) for me to call myself a signmaker. Workwise I am pretty realistic and I’m under no illusions that signmaking is easy or even that I’m going to be particularly good at it. Sorry if this is a tad long-winded.
Do you think it would be a mistake to approach it this way?
Cheers, Dewi
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Mistake would be to harsh a word. It would be a little taxing.
However I can see potential in what you are saying. If you were doing something else like plumbing and heating and were trying to weave in gently into the sign game it could prove difficult.
But here you have a client base who come to you for design and print. I could easily see the transition to say doing something on their office or shop window and other small stuff.
I have just seen a little of your work and it is clear you can design and layout. In your case I would not see the transition too great at all in fact I think it is simply a matter of mastering the vinyl application side of the business.
John
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quote johnalphasign:I have just seen a little of your work and it is clear you can design and layout. In your case I would not see the transition too great at all in fact I think it is simply a matter of mastering the vinyl application side of the business.
I think that is what is making me hesitate to be honest John. Mastering the art of vinyl application, even whether I’ll enjoy working with vinyl to begin with, is obviously no small thing when you’re considering doing it as a full-time job.
Is there anywhere I can go for maybe a couple of hours to watch or have a go at vinyl application? I’ve read up on Mike & Joe’s Sign School, but unfortunately I’ve already commited to a schedule that means I can’t wait for the next Sign School. As the saying goes, I want to look before I leap 🙂
Cheers, Dewi
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Believe me Dewi
It isn’t that difficult at allSome of the signmakers here have lads to help them with making signs
The designing of the sign is mostly left to the signmaker who then lets his lads fill the machine and then do the weeding after it has been cut. Almost anybody can do that. If progression is made then it may come to the lad actually laying the vinyl down onto the substrate. Again if you have a trained eye for balance etc this is not a problem.If you get the chance to apply for the demo area on this site there are some good step by step visuals and some excellent tips from the experts such as Mike the Sign.
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I’ve just checked and its only £19.99 to get access to this minefield of info
It covers a whole lot more than just vinyl application
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I can draw many parallels with what John is saying. That by running two businesses alongside each other can make it taxing. Although many signmakers produce T-shirts etc., alongside their regular business it can double the amount of contact, i.e. with customers and suppliers that you make each day and that often means lost time. I run a website as well so get pulled 3 ways most days. I subsequently work outside of normal hours to get things done and can’t always see the wood for the trees.
I’m waffling a bit I know, but if I were you I’d kick off on the printing and design and add the basic stuff, signboards, banners etc., withoput too heavy an investment. You’ll soon get the hang of it. Good Luck
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Dewi
i live in Middlewich (originaly from Atherton) where our company Sign & Design Uk Ltd is based, we are only 1/2 hour drive down the M6, you are welcome to come and see us, even Sat or Sunday if that is better for you, and have a go on the vinyl cutter.
We have a Gerber edge, Mutto vinyl cutter and a Spandex router.Regards
Chris
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John – thanks for that. I looked it up and decided to go for the Gold Access thing, just waiting for activation. Thank you once again for your advice and reassurance. It is very much appreciated.
Martin – thank you also for your advice and reassurance. You sound like a very busy man! 🙂 I’m intrigued by your website, I have a mini gym in my spare room that has a 6ft punch bag as its most recent edition (got to get those Monday Blues out some way or another 😉 ) I use it for fitness mainly, but I will be visiting your site often.
Chris F. – Thank you! If you’re sure I wouldn’t be intruding, I would really love to do that. It would be fantastic to get an insight into how the professionals do it and whether its the job for me. I have a sneaky suspicion that I’m going to love it, but as the Irish say, to be sure to be sure 🙂 Let me know what is the most convienient for you and we can make arrangements. Thank you again.
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Hi Dewi,
I can recommend getting the Gold access, the tutorial/demo section is really
calming my jitters about setting up for myself.To a large extent we’re in the same boat and from kinda similar backgrounds,
albeit that my work is currently exhibition stands and internal banner stands.
An area I’d like to remain involved in, but which would require a hefty capital outlay
for LFD printer and then a laminator.My main concern re the sign making route is no additional pair of hands,
I’m sure I’ll be able to cajoal my wife in to helping sometimes, but theres no way
I’ll get her up a ladder.From my little experiance of applying vinyl it wasn’t to difficult to pick up, although I’m
sure theres still plenty left for me to learn.Good luck
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Hi Peter,
Gold access well worth it. I’ve only looked at a couple of posts so far, and I’m loving it! (aww no, I sound like a McDonalds advert 😮 )
We do seem to be in very similar boats. I’m a little aprehensive about the whole deal, but thanks to some excellent advice, help and offers here, I am 99% sure I’m going to love the work and the transition from my present line of work to signmaking shouldn’t be as hard as I initially thought. Due to circumstances I already have premises ie retail shop and workshop available to me in the new year and I was a little nervous about going in alone. My work atm, I travel to the client, so I meet lots of ppl all the time, but sitting in a shop/workshop waiting for customers to vist or ring is a scary prospect. My other half, like yours, will offer a helping hand, but likewise, I think ladderwork will be a big no no. 😕
The bit I’m looking forward to is getting some broadband installed at the shop so I can join in here. I figure I’ll never really be alone, and I have a cunning plan involving a laptop, a mobile phone and some gaffer tape that’ll mean I should be able to join in even whilst doing the dreaded ladderwork (spin)
Cheers, Dewi
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I think your way of disecting a sign is definately the way to go, I do it all the time. If you can visualise a way of making it with the knowledge and kit you already have then you are well on the way to calling yourself a signmaker. With experience you have various methods to choose from, and then all you have to do is work out which method is most cost effective for the task. i.e 2 signs could look EXACTLY the same but 1 could be for indoors, last 5 years and cost £100 and the other could be for outdoors, last 5 years and cost £500
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As a suggestion: Find out who your local sign fixers are!
You don’t have to take risks (drown)
These guys have their vans with access equipment and generally another body with them. They have the tools and are set up to install projecting signs or illuminated boxes and the rest.
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Hi Dewy,
My advice for you is to go for it. Most of the stuff you’ll have to do will be using customers existing logos and a lot of stuff I think you’ll end up doing will be initially in the areas of magnetics, small vehicle signs, point of sale signage and the like. You’ve already taken a large step in the right direction and got gold access, so you can have a look at the good info.
you should already be proficient in Illustrator, so do your art there, export to a cutting programme and go from there. Practice with fitting, and you’ll pick it up easy. Gray from Tassie did an excellent demo on fitting vinyl via the hinge method…Have a look at that and have a crack at it.
You should be able to pick and choose to an extent the type of signage you wish to do. My advice would be if you got a request for a large sign, or something unusual…Get another member here to either advise you or to do the job for you, add a markup and you both win.
You guys in the UK have a great resource right here…This site is full of great people who are willing to lend a hand…Use them and reciprocate.
By the way we’re doing it the other way. We’re just getting into printing as another string to our signmaking bow…With Jen being a designer too. We haven’t really told many customers about it and are already getting plenty of work. We just act as brokers for the printing with Jen doing the design work.
Run into any problems and ask…I’m sure someone here can quickly help.
Gawd I do go on sometimes…See what a Sunday afternoon beer does to me? *hair*
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dewi
Take it from me nothing could be more different from signmaking than undertaking! In my short time delving into this game I’ve found it at once rewarding & frustrating. With your graphic design bg you’ll find signs an intereating diversion but nothing you cannot apply your layout skills to.
With all these great people here there is ann unlimited resource.
Noel (death & taxes) Hurse 😉
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