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Thermal or Inkjet
Hi All
I would really appreciate some advice regarding the pro’s and con’s of purchasing either an inkjet printer/cutter or thermal printer/cutter. Firstly, is it safe to start with the assumption that the marketplace is becoming or is dominated by full colour graphics with regard to signage.
Assuming this to be true, are the limitations of inkjet printing with regard to durability a major issue. Would this be the deciding factor when comparing with thermal wax/resin prints. My knowledge of the applications and markets for this type of printing is very limited and makes it exremely difficult to make the correct decisions. However, I don’t wish to sit on the fence forever while making my mind up.
Can someone point me in the right direction.
Regards
Paul -
11 Replies
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Hi Paul
Ill ask this question probably because others that can answer your questions will need it answered anyway… (Did I just waffle in my first sentence?)
If you are thinking of entering the printing side of the market. What area o you think you will approach first? Vehicle signage, advertising, point of sale etc etc
There are some machines out there nice and cheap and give great looking prints, but are totally useless for outdoor. Some of the machines that are good for wide format printing & have good UV life are useless for vehicle prints.. etc
Im very limited in my knowledge of printing, & im sure some of the others will be able to help you a lot more.. But before buying a machine I would think about what is going to sell for you.. What do you think you could offer to your “existing” customer base? Once you decide then you should see what machine best suits that type of work.
Hope this help a little and ill jump in again if I think I can add to anything… -
Thanks for the reply Robert. It’s a valid question and the one I knew I would be asked. In a way this is also part of my problem, as I do not have the knowledge about the possible applications for these machines to make proper informed choices.
I come from a graphic design background so I guess I would feel more at home producing advertising type material. I know I do not wish to get involved in the installation of graphics, particularly on vehicles. I work from home and I like it that way. Does this info help with any advice you may have. Thanks for taking the trouble to help.
Regards
Paul -
Good question Paul, I too am interested in the replies.
I wouldn’t say the signs market is any where near dominated by full colour graphics. The vast majority of vehicles are still done using cut vinyl, as are most shop and factory signs. Full colour graphics when they are included on signage often appear alongside cut vinyl.
I have often thought that one area where a print and cut system would make life much easier for a vinyl signmaker would be in the application of complex vehicle graphics. You can design a conventional vinyl layout complete with many colours, drop shadows, halos ,high and lowlights to create many stunning effects. These could then be printed, cut out, and applied in one go. In appearance, the overall design would look like a conventional (albeit complicated) vinyl job, but could be accomplished in a fraction of the time. The skills to do this are no more than that which vinyl signmakers already have.
I wonder if the time may come when coloured vinyls are no longer required. We may all simply print the colours we need onto white vinyl before cutting, weeding and taping. I am sorry if I am stating the obvious, but one of my main interests in having such a machine would be to do this very thing. I use a colorcamm which is capable of doing this but it’s high running costs make it unviable to use it in this way in all but the smallest of signs.
Apart from the above- the signmaker can also begin adding colour fills and effects to his artwork, things that can’t be done with vinyl alone. And of course full colour rendered images. This is a whole different area that the signmaker who is used to working with cut vinyl will take time to learn but also offers possibilites in areas other than just signage.
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Its a question I had to ask myself , I have both systems and was getting tired of the limitations of my thermal printers (as well as their quirks) and went ahead and bought a large format inkjet (semi solvent) print and cut machine (A Roland)
The ONLY advantage to thermal – and Im gonna get jumped on here – is to print gold and silver or white and perhaps garment transfers and some spot colours.
Even that is academic – barring the white and spots , cos we print colour on shiny gold and shiny silver – so that advantage is now negated and the output of the inkjet is actually much more upmarket on this. As to garments , one can get sublimation inks for inkjets or just use a cheap deskjet on transfer paper.Inkjets have come a long way recently – there are no issues regarding speciality coated media – I print on just about anything I can put thru the machine .
There was an issue regarding prints drying – thats been solved and most prints come out totally dry and if not 100% are at least handelable and dry within minutes , the issues of banding , dotty prints etc are no more – I print BETTER photo quality than the local industrial photographer does and he uses ME for large area art type prints!!!!!Any issues as to scratchproffness etc are also a non issue these days , most of the media I print on is destroyed before the print can come off.
High maintenance is also not an issue – I have never even opened the covers of my machine , all I have ever done is change cartriges or wipe dust off the machine. I can leave my machine over the weekend and come back monday morning , press the button and print , no flushing , no nonsense!!!
Powerful rips and ICC profiles make colour matching a snap so any issues regarding that are also negated, some spots might just be an issue – but I have NEVER come across that – I can match just about any pantone colour and have never had a customer complain.
Outdoor stability is also a non issue – new generation inks and inkjets will do at least 3 years and way longer if laminated – vehicle graphics have to be laminated no matter how they are printed at any rate. Outdoor durability claims are red herrings most of the time , most output is not required to have indefinate lifespan and if it is , then protect it – that goes for ANY print system
The consumable costs of inkjet are nowhere NEAR thermal , about 10x cheaper – and my inkjet beats thermal hands down for highly detailed teeny die cut graphics , it prints small text and stuff way better than my roland thermal and the “other” system which is popular (dons flame proof suit here)
Its about 10x faster too (but about 3x more expensive to buy) doing a 3 meter banner (1.2 m wide) in about 6-8 minutes with stunning quality (and this is in tis worst mode)Thing is , with a large/medium format inkjet you gain huge flexibility , the range of medias it can print on are vast and the size of graphics means you can enter many new markets.
print on various papers (matt , photo , self adhesive , coloured , card , too many to mention) , ANY vinyl (barring polyester foils which I have coated), rigid styrenes and abs , fabrics , canvas , banner, lexan , lamination films , polyprint etc etc etc.
The range of jobs I do far eclipses what I could ever accomplish using thermal.
Heres a partial list:Plans for architects , printed and cut detial for model builders photoquality art prints for photographers , see thru mesh vinyl for windows , all manner of stickers labels decals ,point of sale display , banners , flags , instore advertising , positives for etching , inserts for medals rosettes and trophys , badges , keytags , specalised vehicle lettering , all manner of signage applications, vehicle wraps, business cards , flexface materials , backlikt signage , instrument membranes , bumper stickers , certificates , licence disc holders and many more I cant think of now. applications are almost endless
In essesnce you have a single machine that can allow you to compete in many areas of signage and print and you to do it better and faster than some of them.
The trend today is to flexibility , both within the signage industry and business in general – companys no longer order 20 000 decals to keep in stock for 2 years , they order 500 to cover an order and you can produce them in a few hours. They want custom printing done on demand etc etc.
Getting into medium or large format inkjet takes you out of pure signmaking into areas that you wouldnt have thought of and it does not limit your creativity – you enter into a FULL graphics market rather than a signage limited one and have to be more creative to compete . You will also have to market yourself in areas you might not have experience in and know about materials and processes you have never used. You also have to learn print technology and perhaps new graphics packages.
The learning curve is quite steep but its very rewarding. I would NEVER go back to thermal !!!! -
Its all about what market you are going for, what set up you have today, and what you want to do.
Rodney always writes well informed posts even if he thinks thermal days are numbered 🙂
I had Gerber and Signlab software here as well as Gerber and Summa plotters, had no interest in getting into printing, I like sandblasting and doing the other stuff I do here, however I found myself ordering more Edge jobs from a company that ran (and still does) 3 of them to the trade.
Selling decals to customers after doing their shop or unit signage and vehicles, also airbrushed effects on vinyl but found it time consuming with everything else.Adding an Edge here was no problem as I had everything else, the Gerber system still has its own niche in the market and is very versatile, on a huge range of substrates direct, magnet, lexan, garments, and proven over many years.
I print mainly spot colours, and so the DPI is not relavant, but if I do fades on vehicles or 4 colour printing, its 300dpi is fine, people are never looking that close, and Scotchprint that we have used on larger trucks is fine at 75dpi, again it depends on your market.
Whatever there is out there competing, I make good money with my Edge, and for me it was an easy step up, and I ‘d rather buy a CNC router here than go into more of the digital jungle, but that’s just me.
While the Roland has its market, and there are many here making money with it, I don’t think you can compare it with the Edge, just because its also a thermal printer, anymore than you can compare certain car brands just because they are cars, many try though.
The most important thing is to go and look for yourself see whats involved, find out from us what the true running costs are and not what the salesmen would have you believe, and then what you want for your business.
No need for the flame suit Rodney….although for me the thermal market is nowhere near dead 🙂
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Yeh- an edge would have been better BUT— about 2 weeks ago I had the edge guys here and they wouldn’t sell me one!!!!
My problem is that a large percentage of my work is very very small lettering and excetionally fine detail – Im talking lettering under 1mm high here , and the edge would not print to the detail I required especially in gold and silver.
They told me no once they saw what I needed , but they took a couple of my files and tried them on their machines , and even the 600×300 didnt print the lettering etc properly. I would have bought an edge system in a flash had it done so.As you say , it’s horses for courses here – the Edge is the more “proven” system and those of us that have Rolands must agree.
There are some amazing deals here in respect of factory refurbished edge I systems and its a VERY attractive starter system at those prices.
(If I remember correctly the printer – cutter software etc etc would have been well under GBP8k)
Signage and vehicle graphics is not really my core business , we just do a lot of it for the trade, but I do a huge amount of product development , branding , and ad agency type stuff , so my comments re my inkjet must be taken in that light – My markets differ from the traditional signage ones.CnC routers are another story altogether – don’t get me started on that!!! 🙂
(we have 5 Isel 1m x 500mm 2 d type machines and a TekCel 1.5m x 1.5 large format high powered 3d machine) -
Thanks guys.
Extremely comprehensive answers. A lot for me to think about there. I guess no matter how long I think about it or how many opinions and advice I take on board, being in business is always going to boil down to taking a chance. I do appreciate the time you have taken to reply. It’s been a big help. I’m sure I’ll be back for more advice. Does making decisions ever get any easier ?
Regards
Paul -
Quick point;
Unlike a thermal print machine you cant print metallic gold/silver on a inkjet.
Andy
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Hi All – Hi Paul.
From your description – activities and background, Inkjet is for you. Just on the basis of your background of Graphic Design – I would suggest Gerber would be awfull – the software you must use is OLD – even on the Maxx2 – same operational software. Now all Gerber users will growl – but printing with an inkjet (+RIP) is direct from your design software. Anyone new to this game should look to the future and invest in that. I believe that the future WILL BE inkjet. But that applies to machines of today and tomorrow – not yesterdays injets!There is an issue with metallic printing being Thermal only – but it’s a characteristic that could be lived with. Rodney has the experience and his post is good.
If you are to purchase any machine, look to the latest offering. It will be more economic – everything seems to be that way these days.
If you go for inkjet – Indoor or Outdoor output? Epson would be hard to beat for indoor. Roland will probobly take the crown eventualy for Outdoor, but Mimaki are pretty good to!
Have a look at the latest offering from Roland – VersaCamm
750mm wide I think, with cutter, 4 colour CMYK, prints onto naked vinyl with outdoor durablity – at approx £9K. I think that’s hard to beat!
The machine is only available at the end of the month!I don’t sell Inkjet (Coming Soon) – but I acknowledge the best deal.
Good old Thermal is what the trade knows and is proven. Inkjet is now getting there. Todays Inkjet (not yesterday’s) will probobly take over in time – but both have a place for some years yet.
Regards Dave Standen
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Hi Dave
Thanks for that mate. Your honest and objective opinion is very welcome. I have actually been looking at the new VersaCamm. It certainly looks like a great deal. I’m still a bit tentative at the moment. A lot of other issues to consider as well on the marketing front. Hopefully, by the end of the year I will be looking to make some firm committments.
Regards
Paul -
I have an edge 2 and a mimaki jv3, both machines are excellent but in different fields. The edge is great at small labels / stickers and prints up to 600 dpi. Spot colours are fine but getting a solid process (ie. a pantone match) colour needs a bit of messing about with the lpi settings. On single spot colour prints it comes into its own.
The mimaki prints up to 720 dpi, up to 1.6m wide, spot colours are easy to set up and are solid, colour gradients blend a lot better than the edge. The mimaki can’t print metallics, but can print onto a lot bigger range of media.
I was thinking of getting rid of the edge but it would close a few specialised markets.
On process coulour prints, the mimaki wins on most aspects (quality, cost, print time) but the finished graphics shouldn’t be applied for around 24hrs, wheras edge prints can be applied straight from the printer.
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