Pane Talev
Forum Replies Created
-
I have aluminium boat with cut vinyl applied on all sides.
Looking ok after many years.
No sealing. No special treatment.
I can see the argument for low energy vinyl, and if trailer is box/ flat, you can use that.
But personally, I think you will be ok with what you are doing now.
-
Thank you @RobertLambie @MartynHeath
-
@RobertLambie @DavidHammond @MartynHeath @Simon-Worrall1
This question rings in my ears…
We say flat panel, but is not flat panel. It is curved / domed panel or curved / domed glass.
The rear window of a Renault Kangoo, Mercedes Citan or Ford Transit and similar is not flat – it is curved / domed.
All my vinyl failings are on similar curved glass (some mentioned above)
Metamark MD5 Air Release only goes on flat panels or shop windows from now on in my workshop. (until I finish what I have) Then I will not stock the air release version.
Side glass is ok. I haven’t registered a fail. Side glass is not domed in all 4 direction. Only domed top to bottom.
“Polymeric self adhesive vinyl suitable for flat or slightly curved surfaces are ideal for long-term internal and external applications.” – I do not believe this statement from the manufacturer.
-
I installed dry, correct.
I got into a stupid habit not to heat the vinyl after finishing my work with slightly curved panels using Matamark MD7A and MD5A and this is the cause of my failure.
-
I had a fail on Metamark M7 white air release wrapping a rear window on Renault Kangoo last week.
Did a dry installation. Came off a week after installation. I re-did the job and used some heat. I Hope this will last now.Also wondering if I should use some higher grade vinyl for such jobs.
-
Thanks Robert,
The reason I want to switch product is mainly the price. For an in-house brand the IP is expensive.
Secondary is the fact the IP 2503LSE has blank backing paper. I hate this approach of a product.
In this case I ordered in IP 2503LSE, mainly because clients product goes around the world. I feel safer that way. At the end is what the client orders.
Personally, I agree with you on the performance, but the only way to find that out is to put a sticker on a surface and have a look at it in 5 years.
-
I lost this job.
Client called me to tell me he found someone who will do the job for half the price.
Yesterday I walked passed the shop. Bubbles, scratches and super bad quality.
Don’t let client’s comments let you down or shake your confidence. You don’t know who got the job and how it was done.
Feeling better after seeing that eyesore of vinyl installation.
-
You need to upgrade Simon. Costs quite a bit.
-
Thank you Robert.
Much appreciated.
-
Thanks, Robert.
Have you installed this wet?
For the face of the glass, we will install dry but we are limited with space on the side window.
Low tack, wet application…I’m thinking problems maybe. -
I plan to take less holidays in 2024.
😂😉🫢
Last year I gave my soul quite a bit, and then a bit more… I now feel hunger for work.
-
Only finished banner with eyelets.
-
I have magnets for years but barely use them.
Have a look at my video:
https://youtu.be/ouGKddPxGI8?si=piDhJqQaGDW2KtrZ
I tear the backing paper and use the application tape to stick to background.
-
Hi Rob,
Have you been watching Robbie Williams documentary?
A lot of unnecessary underpants in that documentary! 🤣
-
Metamark MD3.
(I don’t stock lower quality vinyl)
-
Its good vinyl. It’s the only wrap vinyl I’ve used for few years now.
Try it.
-
Yesterday I had new client walking in the workshop.
No logo, no website, nothing prepared for the business.
Client wanted to have simple van sign writing with two services and a phone number. All though I was confident I will prepare the mock up in 15min, it took 30min.
Then client asked if he can take a picture of my screen to send to wife.
I said, no. At the moment you are not paying me, no obligation to have a business commitment with me, and I cannot give away free artwork. Pay me 30 minutes and the artwork is yours in vector format.
30 seconds later he signed the artwork and I did the job, it was no need to check with the wife…
In reality I’m not as tough as I say. I should of guaranteed my time/ money before hand, just like a plumber or electrician will do. Client could of left and I have 30min unpaid work.
-
Thank you both for your advice John and Robert.
Only half of the wall gets covered with print, the other half will have letter on it.
Frame will not work as well as the print on the 5mm PVC (I think). Plus I cannot print on fabric.
If there are no electric sockets on the wall I would of used dibond panels but I will stick to 5mm PVC.
-
I’m good on this matter.
I went on site, inspected the job and explained the situation.
To be honest as this is facade hit by the sun all day, I personally will not call those small cracks a fail. They are 2mm cracks that are normal in this hostile environment after 6 + years.
Metamark M7 white did well.
-
Thank you for your messages Martyn and Robert.
You are right, I shouldn’t involve. But I was there this morning to show support for my client.
Clearly they attempted to clean the glass and stuck the scraper in few of the letters. Damage is straight cut and not weather related.
On the last two photos you can see the Metamark M7 mini crack after 6 years on a glass facade that is on the sun all day. These weather/ years related mini crack are not visible after 1 meter viewing distance, compared to the damaged parts that are visible from the street.
Facade company is playing stubborn at the moment, will see how this turns out.
-
Good vehicle graphics designs cannot be done in 1 hour.
Try and separate “design of vehicle graphics” and actual “signwriting cost of a vehicle” and your income will increase, you will become more optimised.
I don’t offer complicated designs, mainly wraps.
I don’t charge for designs – logo on the sides and telephone number on the doors.
Anything else is charged by the hour.
-
I have few pieces of Berghaus ski fleece and jackets.
I don’t think you will get them as “fruit of the loom” sort of merchant. They are in a different price bracket.
You will have to buy them from resellers or Berghaus direct.
-
Mutoh Xpertjet 1641 SR (I seriously suffered mentally owning this printer for more than I year before issue was fixed)
My next printer will be the same Epson. Dealer located 20km from workshop.
-
Personally, I refused a similar job like this in Geneva yesterday.
This is too much planning for me. Easy waste of time for a one-man band like me. -
Knife pressure on high tack should be spot on.
I did a job yesterday.
All test cuts here in workshop were ok.
At the time of installation the following day, the vinyl was not coming off easy from the backing paper. I had same tears like you have on the photos.
This situation will be a tricky one to judge I think.
Using a tweezer I managed to fix everything.
I will be asking a client to sign a waver (for self installation) from now on for high tack vinyl.
-
Vans (low spec) that were 17k now they are 35k.
Mental.
Ended up getting small Hyundai i10.
5 years warranty, dealer garage 5km away from me.
-
Thank you for your reply.
I left mine 72h. It was for personal vehicle.
I can never get the GLIDE technology form the Arlon SLX. Mine is a bit more sticky.
-
Thank you all for your replies.
I cannot offer matt only. I understand.
Also agree that for vehicle gloss is better unless a special request.
I will keep offering both. Having another matt roll laminate on the shelf will not hurt the business.
-
Matt lamination hides a lot of imperfections on one project.
Scratches on media. Scratches on background. Strange shades in prints.
Matt lamination makes us and the client look better.
One example. Older van/ lots of scratches, gloss lamination is showing all the scratches.
-
Happy to report that after the visit from a Mutoh engineer from Germany (probably the most knowledgeable printer engineer I have ever meet), firmware update and few other things that I have no technical understanding off, my printer had NOT had media cockling for the past few months.
That was a nice example of customer care. Took more that a year, but hey, C’est la vi.
-
Mutoh XpertJet 1641SR. (my third Mutoh)
-
Thank you Jamie!
-
I use to order from this company back in the day.
-
M2. Habit I guess. Easier to calculate. Ink cost come to us as M2.
-
Thank you all, good suggestions. Client went with the Avery at the end.
-
I’ve done it before I had a laminator.
Just make sure you don’t wet the backing paper.
I don’t have any reported complaints or comebacks. -
Thank you Gentlemen,
This is for a cut job that gets quite expensive now that there is no substitute option for this kind of finish of vinyl.
-
Thank you all for your reply.
To be honest, I’m doing social media because “google spiders” like it, apparently.
Nothing matches pay per click advert that I pay directly to google.
-
Your last photo looks print on clear. Colours look washed.
The vans are showing up.
I will guess gloss laminate, because matt will make a frost / matt-ish finish and the vehicle will not be showing as much.
Judging from your first photo. If you can, offer frost from the inside the shop. Rest from the outside. Stronger colours. Simplicity for the client. Frost is privacy. And they can change the outside without touching the frost.
Original designer mock up is very different from final product.
-
Thank you all for your reply. After watching You Tube and doing some tests, turned out I don’t know how to cut dibond with knife properly. I’ve been doing to many scores with the knife.
-
Thank you @Phill-Fenton. @RobertLambie @DavidHammond
This will be my priority in 2023. To have calm-er working environment.
Have a lovely Christmas.
-
I have only 1 car in the family and the business.
VW T6 Multivan.
7 seater. 3 seats (bench) + 2 separate seats in the back.
All removable, and then you get a cargo van.
After owning a VW T6, it is difficult to move to another car (boot space related)
-
Something I experienced recently.
When you get awarded a big project, it will take a longer time to complete this project.
One / two man bands will be 100% committed on this mega project while other regular jobs / client will wait to get served. Some of them will get upset.
It’s swings and roundabouts.
If you are consistent with cost / pricing and busy on a regular basis , there is more profit in smaller project. My opinion.
-
This turned out to be the material.
When no solid colour background is printed, print quality is spot on.
When background is printed, because of statics, the banding / lines appear.
Looking for new roll up media.
-
As I replied may times in the past:
I’m not producing un-laminated vinyl. Everything that leaves the work shop must be laminated. Always using the best product for the job. I’m always asking for personal opinions here on the forum.
I will not even think to do un-laminated floor graphics.
I mean, why will you do it? For the job to come back at you and make you miserable? Everything is expensive at first, but when a job comes back we realize exactly what expensive really is. I’m not even going into the legal side of things.
-
Just an update on this.
Mutoh sent engineer and a simple (read: ridiculous and insulting part) aluminum plate was installed on my 1641SR. Now on top of the media cockling, I cannot load media easy because media hits the plate as you load from the back.
Honestly for a moment I think this is a f****g dream. I cannot comprehend that nobody is doing anything.
I’m thinking of cutting my Mutoh XpertJet 1641SR in half with a big grinder as a sign of disappointment to the brand and posting the video on social media using paid features. Grab your popcorn!
-
Thank you all for your time to reply.
So it is not simple after all.
Will you agree with me that to offer this product (as in Robert’s video) you need to have special set up? i.e. to be specialized in these product / finish?
-
Thank you all for your time. Will test some of your products. Always looking to improve.
-
I have recently used 3M™ Scotchcal™ Clear View 8150 and achieved great results.
-
That’s exactly what I did Jamie. 1440 dpi. 46min = 1 roll up. Crazy slow. But glad job is done.
I wonder what is the problem:
Media?
Profile?
File?
-
Thank you Robert. I will try this.
This is the knife used.
I also was under impression that glass cannot be scratched with a knife.
-
Most sign companies in Switzerland will charge for a quote.
Most sign companies in Switzerland have vehicle graphics design process / cost separated from actual vehicle graphics preparation and installation. Once you have approved / paid for the design of your vehicle graphics you can do the work in the same company, or go else where to have the work done.
-
-
Thank you all for your input. Good to know as the Epsom sellers are only 20km away from me.
-
Mutoh is on the case finally. There is an additional part that will be installed on my printer to get rid of media cockling. Will keep you posted if this solves the problem and don’t need to change printers.
-
-
Mutoh is on the case finally. There is an additional part that will be installed on my printer to get rid of media cockling. Will keep you posted if this solves the problem.
-
Thanks Robert. Happy to. PM sent.
-
Hi Robert. No. The 3M stuff was not in stock, plus the small print was not clear on damaging the paintwork etc etc, so we decided to do it the hard way.
-
This is how the van looks
-
Hi Dave. This is a first time in 25 years I experience such a thing. The more heat I apply, vinyl was getting harder.
I’m ok with avery glue remover but in this case I cannot get to the glue. I need liquid that will go trough the laminate and vinyl (something applied with roller perhaps)
-
Thank you for your reply @markjohnston @DavidWilde.
Image Perfect was not available and I did use the 3M 8150. Prints well. No after printing curving, but not very happy about the glue movement (slightly going white) when applied with water. Squeegee mark / glue movement sort of thing. A bit disappointing by 3M.
-
Thank you all for your input. I have registered 3 fails with the M7A Metascape.
Yes, we have more snow here in Switzerland and that might be the case.
It is reassuring that most of you don’t have problems using Metascape. I avoid them as much as I can and use them where they make my life a lot easier. Cheers!
-
I always laminate contra-vision with ultra clear.
Laminating with normal clear laminate is a no go. Client will not be able to look outside his vehicle.
I almost never send non laminated print out of my store.
-
This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Pane Talev.
-
This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by
-
Still head strikes on almost every start. Still frustration. Still no serious action my Mutoh. I’m already in touch with around 10 people around the world who have problem with this printer.
Looks like the vacuum system is not up to scratch. Or the heaters are not consistent.
-
I do eyelets at 60cm apart. I very rarely sell non hemmed / non finished banner. Always double-sided tape hemmed, with eyelets.
-
Wall on the left is structural wall paper. No vinyl other than high tack will apply on it. On the photo on the right, removable vinyl can be used, but I still prefer laser cut cardboard. (now that I have laser in-house)
-
If sticks to the wall, I don’t see why not.
But per your tittle, as soon as you say concrete…I say HT all the way
-
This is my template folks. Stays nice and flat. I have 4 lines of flat cuts. That is why I want 1 big piece of cardboard. I have done it Robert’s way in the past, but this is better for me for this job
-
This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by Pane Talev.
-
This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by
-
Thanks Robert!
My spraying booth will be like this exactly. This will work for me.
-
Vinyl is to risky for me. Might take paint of the wall. Potentially another problem.
Laser cut cardboard template is sexy. Just need to source flat cardboard or thicker paper.
-
😉
-
-
Thank you gentlemen. Very helpful. Gives me the right idea how to approach this job. Cheers!
-
I am assuming your boat has a raw/mill aluminium finish to it.
Do these types of boats have some sort of clear coat on the surface of it?Surface is smooth.
I have applied my own vinyl to my boat too.
I do not know if the boats have a clear coat on the surface.
-
I actually believe the opposite.
I think M7 will outlast M7A on a curved glass. The only reason why I use the air release version is that I can install it easier on my own. With helper I will install M7 on rear ford transit glass window, dry application, and I have a feeling it will last and not fail. Only M7A fails in such cases.
I have a feeling M7 sticks more. Yes, I know what Metamark says.
-
I was asking myself that question. Why is it falling only on a glass panel – never failing on a metal in-panel.
Is it the rough edge of the glass? No idea.
-
I agree. Too much money for not much.
I was using it as a trial for couple of weeks, that’s how I know about the upgrade.
There are ways around it.
-
“you cant snap them off on a table” – You’ve gone soft.
I snap them off my table, no issue.
-
I have a feeling they will pay your invoice.
“their colleague had also contacted a sign company…” – very unlikely.
“very close to my designs but not exact.” – here the case is not 100% on your side.
-
Indoor. Office.
-
😂😂😂
-
Hi Robert,
No offence taken.
Just wrote what I think of the M7 white performance on a glass panel that is on the sun all day.
-
I should to be thinking like you Hugh. Many years ago I did. I should be learning from you. That is a good approach and thinking. Over the year on a project like this I will be spending a lot of hours, that all go unpaid at the end. But refusing such work, this is how I lose clients. Once they to to the “bigger company” for the mega jobs, then they stay with them for smaller jobs too. Good luck with the project!
-
I will not call that wrapping film. For me that is MD5 air release.
-
ORAJET 3554 Brick Stone Film
Happened to me before also on the solid colours high tack from Mac Tac.
Sending these to clients for self install is risky. If paper doesn’t release quickly client will not bother with tweezers and knife to pick up letters. So you either cut again for free, or lose client…
-
😂 Cheers Martyn.
I agree about the colour brightness / sharpness.
-
“I found 3164 shrank really quickly, in my opinion not really comparable to MD3.”
Thank you David. That is very valuable information to me.
-
“often you see them dented, kinked and twisted, as a result. Fabric is much more forgiving and easier to install.”
Thanks Robert, this is the exact reason why I want to improve my product if possible.
-
The rest of the print is perfect. Only the green has this shade / banding. Bizarre.
-
What a lovely solution. Top idea!
Thank you, Kevin!
In this case, the council doesn’t allow signs and on the outside and the architect wants laser-cut acrylic.
-
Not sure what kind of glass. Blade OLFA 30 degrees.
-
Exactly. Some other trade specialist do not leave their house unless you paid up front. Optimize. Sign makers shouldn’t work for free. If you are not busy, go and play with your kids, go fishing, travel. Do not work for free.
-
Thank you Robert for this detailed explanation. Thanks all who replied. We struggled bad on this one. 3 more to go. I hope they remove better! 😉
-
1: The van is white
2: Wrap is printed, right door black , left door light blue. Vinyl comes off super difficult even in the folded areas that I have pushed inside. (Edge of door)
3: Vinyl comes off equally difficult everywhere.5: Printed on Mutoh Valujet 1624x
6: Laminate doesn’t pull ink. Clear Laminate does come off the print in the areas next to the glass.
Important for me to remove the plastic part of the vinyl. The glue I can remove easy. Will your recommended product go trough the vinyl?
-
Thanks Chris.
This is the first case where the wallpaper steamer didn’t help. Vinyl was getting harder. I will call Signgeer on Monday. Thanks
-
Hi Mark, have you used any of them?
-
My printer doesn’t print white. I was hoping to find 25% white to back with. No luck.
-
Did that. In my office looked good. In their office lighting was bad and they didn’t choose it.
-
@admin Yes. I charge. I did 2 lots of prints at full price as an order. My printer doesn’t print white but even with the printer that does, as you also mention, when white is printer the transparency is gone.
Sample is approved and is a standard procedure sample. Print on ultra clear. Thank you all.
-
@KarenWhite – Re: large space around my letters – that’s not intentional around my design. But between lines, that is the look / space wanted by the client / architect.
-
Thank you Robert!
-
Thanks Kevin.
That is what I had in mind. Just struggling to find suppliers locally.
-
With the amount of money I’m being paid to do high spec jobs, I will fly in chilly direct from Mexico. 😉
