Hugh Potter
Forum Replies Created
-
well there’s no doubt what it thinks ofr you!
-
Just a quick tip Martyn,
if you can, warm the van from the inside, banging a heat gun over it does little as the heat dissipates so quickly. If the van is empty I’ll put an electric heater or oil radiator in the back for a few hours prior to application, warming from the inside gets much better heat evenly throughout the vehicle surface. If the van is ply lines allow a bit longer.
-
Metamark MD5H is a high-tack film, you can also get MD5HA with the air release.
I use it a lot for high tack stickers which go onto plastic bins, so will be fine for stainless steel.
I wouldn’t say SS is low energy per se, but it may have a brushed finish, in which case I would use high tack to maximise adhesion to what is microscopically a furrowed field!
https://www.metamark.co.uk -
Print out for me, I tend use the larger vinyl media boxes and let it loosely coil in there in a plastic bag.
Hammond does it the other way cos he’s a weirdo 🤣
-
I have used Hampshire Flag a number of times over the years, very good quality gear.
http://www.hampshireflag.co.uk
Feather flags I buy from Venture Banners. They are not the cheapest but better hardware and materials used than the cheaper suppliers that persuaded me to buy from them! -
Looks great Martyn, nice job!!
I agree with your costings.. people have almost zero idea of the amount of work that goes into wrapping a vehicle, even a relatively simple one like this. I’ve thought in the past about setting up a live feed camera to show how long it takes… I wouldn’t do that as it would probably make me rush the job!
-
Has it been ceramic coated? I have had this before on a trailer that was machine polished and then ‘treated’, turned out it had been ceramic coated, which will need machine polishing again.
-
I think I buy from amari, 50 or 100 sheets at a time in 815 x 610 pre-cut correx. 4mm is my ‘go to’ and will be fine, depending how they mount it. If they’re going pn chainlink etc. you can punch banner eyelets through 😉
-
If someone has (I may) the downloaded files on their rip pc, then could they send them to you?
I do agree about the feeling of being ripped off though, it annoyed me that when I bought my new latex I got what I presume was the latest onyx postershop rip, within a few months I was being prompted to check for updates, an update for Postershop 12 was there and I downloaded but, it weouldn’t let me install based on “whatever”, you’d think any upgrades in versions would be free within 12 months!
I’ll be sure to back up my copies of the oporating files / drivers.
I don’t mind doing corel on a subscription (annual) but with the cost of onyx being quite a significant outlay, I don’t want to be spending on that every money / annually etc.
-
Hey Simon,
you have the latex, right?
Obviously, if they want decent quality, I will use the same go-to polymeric I use for most jobs (arlon 4550gtx) in regular or high tack, depending upon application.
For most stickers / small decals, I use a good quality monomeric with a proper lay-flat liner… I use a couple of various films at around the £100 a log mark, The lay-flat liner is the key, do not be tempted to use the really cheap films with the craft liner, you’ll never get accurate contour cutting.
On another note… I noticed you used CMYK @100% each to get a solid black. I find that without a shed load of heat, it can often stay oily as it doesn’t dry well enough throughout the ink load.
Try a:
50/50/50/100K
or even a 30/30/30/100K
Or even an RGB black works well. -
As David says, however, I’ve had a mare with a file this past couple of days, continuously printing some magenta 100% cut contour outlines and not cutting them. Eventually realised it was the only part of the drawing that was still a font (not that in itself is a problem usually), I converted to curves and it’s all good now. That was with Calibri.
-
I was under the impression that the point of the material was to have less grab, be movable until you lock it and heat it.
If you’re having bother, make sure the client hasn’t used any kind of ceramic coating, or shampoo with some derivative in it. You’ll never make it stick!
-
Thanks Pane,
I thought this might be the case, a couple of my suppliers offer some premium brand clothing, but I guess berghaus don’t want them selling!
-
Mainly I use Right off, made by SOTT and sold, I think by Adapt / Amari.
I have got a bottle of the metamark glue remover here also, only just tried it on a couple of small bits and it works well. I also use the Metamark surface cleaner.
I don’t use application fluids. On the rare occasion I’m flooding a panel that’s too big to handle, I’ll just use a soapy solution, though more often now I use a ppf solution.
I did use Rapid Tac around 17-18 years ago when I first started, as I installed outside back then, and hadn’t mastered dry application (some may say I still havent!) it seemed sensible. It worked well enough but did fail on one job.. I had a rush job to recreate a Vauxhall 888 touring car replica, the weather was cold, only a few °C, it even began to sleet as I was finishing the roof! Anyhoo, the RT application fluid said it was good for down to minus 10 or 15°c… Luckily my client trailered the car to the track and had the photos done prior to the race, during the 24 laps around 25% of the decals – all the big stuff, parted company with the vehicle. Thankfully the customer wasn’t phased as it was a one off thing for his sponsors and they’d got what they wanted, but I don’t recall using RT again after that.
-
As other have said,
could be cheap vinyl & laminate,
mis-matching laminate,
solvent print not outgassed properly prior to laminating,
How do they wash their vans? In-house with any chemicals? Roadside car wash types (cheap TFR chemicals)?
I warranty all my graphics against failure due to installation error or product issues, but I always specify no TFR / caustic washing products, “we can tell when you use them”!!
-
Nice job Rob!
I’m not sure which moulding you refer too, but the side mouldings pop off (clips) so no probs there.
I have the Transit custom sport, rather than the MSRT, the difference as far as I’m aware is about £10k and a load of unnecessary weight in the form of moulded bumpers, trim and seat covers, my factory sport is quicker!I digress, I believe the glue all those wheel arch trims etc. on, hence not being removable. The factory Sport has clipped arch trims which are removable.
-
I usually use signwaves
-
Not an issue I’ve noticed on my 360 Simon, in fact, my now 2.5yr old machine is still on it’s original set of heads and printing prefectly. I bought a full set when I had issues a couple of months back and was shocked to realise I hadn’t replaced any but, following a head clean and re-ripping the print, it’s been great! A couple of the heads are over 4000ml!
That’s no help to you of course!
-
I generally make a point of nt using suppliers who are also competition in this way.
It’s also a big bug bear of mine when suppliers have their vinyl prices on the website for all to see, rather than behind a log in only. I remember a client telling me that I can’t charge £45 a mtr for some wrap to flood a 3050×1500 compo panel… they’d seen it was only £15 a mtr on the website when they looked up the material I suggested. . I told them they’d be best to buy it themselves then, along with a vinyl cutter and software etc.
I then called the supplier and had a moan at them, as even with my discounts, it was barely a couple of quid less than they were showing online. I was not happy and cut my spend immediately. I won’t say who it was as, it was one of two and I don’t want to name the wrong supplier!
-
As much as I want to support UK manufacturers… I’d just look on Amazon or the like as the prices are sensible.
I do a batch of 10-20 rigid backs for a customer each year, a landrover specialist.
He told me he pays around £35+vat each for them, which I felt was reasonable.
On his last delivery, I found a delivery note and contacted the manufacturer, I explained my business in brief and asked for trade a price list, they wanted nearly £90 for a single rigid back type and £60+ for the soft covers.
I replied and said I was looking to resell them and needed a trade price list, they came back and said “Oh, we’ll give you 15% off those prices”.
Needless to say, I didn’t bother buying any and got what appeared to be the exact same quality for about £25 on Amazon, with free delivery! -
personally I would say that if the backing is coming away with the contour cut graphics, you need to lower the cut pressure so allow for the (probably thinner) backing, that loks obvious to me. A contour cut can be perfect but if it’s too deep, you get what you have here.
Regarding the edge separating, I’ve had it over the years where the backing has some kind of small nick in the edge, which then tears and continues as shown, pulling that torn bit up right away would prevent it continuing, though not ideal. It might be that the edge isn’t as cleanly cut, either from factory or on the bench. I’ve also had it happen on site when the edge of the backing has got wet and it delaminated the backing like that.
I can’t say for sure that it’s not the material at fault, but I would be looking at the blade pressure first, then take a look at the roll edges.
-
Signgeer are pretty good, though not a masive range.
I think I can get them cheaper elsewhere but, they have free next day delivery over X££’s which is a bonus.
-
I had forgotten that I did the video above, and made another for someone recently, showing a different angle, and less hair on my bonce!
I know not everyone has Instagram but it’s the only place I uploaded it. Visit: Dragon Signs – Instagram
I think it might also be on my Dragon Signs & Print FB page, unsure. -
I run a 365 latex,
I’ve never used MD3 but was a regular user of MDL100, MD5 AB & MD5 H.
A couple of years back I had awful trouble with the MD5 laminate turning light grey to pink, it almost cost me a very good client, I wasn’t happy with Metamarks answer to the issue (buying opti clear lam at £10= p mtr) so switch to Arlon 4550 GTX, have never looked back on that.
I continued with the MD5 High tack until they messed about with the liners and I ended up with around 75m of wasted prints, ruined in the HP. I moved to Vion 5000 high tack, I stuck with that for a year or two but gave MD5 H another go after a long chat with Metamark on the phone, the issues I experienced appear to have been sorted and I actually prefer the MD5 to the vion, it sits nice and flat when cut up into laminated stickers which are kept as stock, and I think the adhesive is better too. I’ll stick the MD% H for the foreseeable.
I also use now the Vion 3000 (mono) and laminates, in place of the MDL100, I don’t recall the MDL being an issue, I think it was a case of ordering along anyway so thought I’d try it, and stayed with it. It’s only used for site boards, short-term displays, stickers etc. but I don’t think I’d have any issue going back to the metamark.
-
Well done, David, you seem to know what you’re doing and always churn out nice work, you’ll smash it!
Best
Hugh
-
I’ve replicated vehicle factory stripe kits etc. in the past by applying application paper (or tape) over the stripes or recess, using a new sharpie and drawing a crisp clean outline, then taking to the local Mr Minute printer who can scan in large format (up to 100cm or so wide) and save it as a pdf for me. Once I get it back I can then digitise the outline from a full scale scan. run a test cut in any old vinyl and wet apply, make note of any areas that might need adjusting and trial fit again.
-
I love it, though I wonder why they put contravision over the stairs window, but not over the lower windows?
-
Did you not get onyx with the HP printer, Simon? If you do have onyx, just process the file, selecting the cutter you wish to use on the left hand drop down menu, the reg marks should be automatically applied, just leave space for them to print of the rip will resize the print down to fit. On 1370 I make the page size of the pdf no more than 1270mm wide, usually 1250 for ease.
-
Not wanting to contradict Rob… almost everything he says regarding the wrapping side of things is sound, but I don’t think that the coating is the issue. I rent my spare fitting bay to a detailer, I now offer a package where we machine polish the vehicle (pre-wrap / branding), apply the wrap / branding and then apply ceramic coat with a sponge applicator; buffing with a microfibre cloth once it’s flashed off, typically around 24hrs later, and before it goes back outside, we’ve had no issues; as far as I am aware, through doing this. I know of another company that does ceramic coats on their wraps to offer an additional layer of protection too.
Point to note: we use a vinyl friendly coating, typically a 1-2 year coating. you can, I believe, use a regular 1-2yr coating on vinyl with no adverse affects..
Ceramic on paintwork .. a ceramic primer is used which essentially melts the top coat slightly we’re talking nano / microscopic stuff here) so the top coat (single on a 1-2yr, 2 coats on a 5/10yr) bonds better to the paint.
You must not use this primer on vinyl as it can seep through the vinyl and affect the adhesive… though it may well be ok to do after a period of a few weeks, when the wrap adhesive is properly cured.
Before admitting any serious liability, see if you can work out what application process went into the ceramic coating, does it specify the make of coating? how many coats etc?
Personally, I also think the arlon (low grab and tack) on bare metal is an issue, I would re-do it but explain that the arlon of a professional wrap film designed to be installed onto a painted surface, and be removed at some point in the future, with that in mind I would offer our usual 3yr warranty on it.. I wouldn’t apply it to metal / grey primer without using a load of 3M primer at the edges, and only then because it’s a last ditcvh attempt to save the job – like when I stripped a carbon wrapped bonnet and all the paint came with it!!
-
It crossed my mind…
When I first bought print in, I bought it from UKSG stalwart, Peter Normington, I recall that he would use a liquid laminate on many prints. I wonder if that is still available?
-
if the image& logo are dead set necessary; then I’d fade it out a bit and add a contrasting outline around the text. Possibly leave as is but with a white transparency strip behind the text, or just douse with petrol and throw matches at it.
-
Always per linear metre, for the reasons @DavidHammond gave. Though I think at £55 a mtr he’s a bit on the cheap side, we’ve been £60 per linear for a good quality polymeric for several years, and considering increasing it now an Arlon 4550GTX kit has increased around £100 in the past few years. I don’t care that I’m more expensive than many of my local competitors, some of them are way too cheap, busier than me for sure, but way too cheap. I can earn the same money from 2 vans as they do from 3 or 4 in some cases.
Charging per sq mtr may work if you’re using the full width, but if you’re paying £8 per mtr for the film, and throwing nearly half in the bin, it’s getting wasteful when a client comes in and wants a 500 x 3000mm decal, let the client pay for the waste!
-
we’re on fb, twitter and insta. Predominantly we use insta with the posts linking through to fb and twitter is I choose.
I don’t bother with paid promotions, I use it more as an online portfolio where people can view our work, see a bit about who we are / what we do in and out of work. Most of the things I get tagged in on FB will politely be declined as they’re too small a job or, more likely, they usually get posted on a wednesday and are asking “can someone recommend a sign co to wrap my van by friday afternoon” in which case I explain that we’re booked for at least a month ahead with wraps and part wraps [as we need 2-4 consecutive days where the fitting bay is not already booked for an install of one type or another,] in order to book them.
Twitter I generally avoid as it’s full of self important types who just make me go “full troll” within 3 minutes of opening the app.
Facebook just (largely) full of people wanting the cheapest deal, or the job done last week, or free designs, etc. no time for that!
-
How do you work out your hourly rate normally?
For our we work out all of our annual running costs including rent, insurances, wages, finance / machine repayments etc. etc. etc. everything excluding materials and consumables which are charged in with the jobs. .
So, for argument sake it’s £36k operating costs, I personally then divide that by 48 weeks (allows for your holidays) which is £750pw, then divide that figure by 20 hours, which in reality is a fair guess on your productive / actually earning money time per week [the rest is usually phone calls, enquiries, procrastinating, making tea, lunch, popping to the post office, and so on… all the stuff that doesn’t always provide a direct income]. That makes £37.50 per hour, I’d probably round it to £45 p/h for the sake of it and to build in a little proofing against cost increases… plus your materials with mark up on them.
If you charge out just those 20hours you have covered your costs and wages, if you work 30 paid for hours… now you’re earning!
With the rise in electric costs etc. we’re now around £60p/h +vat, you need to charge what you need to charge. Even if you only need £20 an hour, charge £40 anyway, you’re still cheaper than the guy charging £45 p/h and you’re making plenty of profit for those rainy days or unexpected bills.
All that said, you ought to have agreed a price before starting the job.
-
Ah Jeez, who let Iain back in ? 🤣🤣
Amari all the time for me. Perspex distribution would be 2nd on my list, but haven’t used them for quite a long time now.
-
I’m just contemplating this now, kinda lost my mojo a bit lately; so not really sure I can be bothered to shut up shop for a day, spend £120 on fuel, ticket and lunch, for a day out!
I’ll potentially go on the wednesday if I do go.
I doubt I’ll do sign UK, it’s another 2 hrs travelling and too close to justify doing two shows, though I’m sure they’re both very different.
-
Argh, I feel your pain!
We do a dechrome or two a month, virtually no material used but, they’re hateful things to do; labour-wise, so we charge a lot to do it, £300 half day, £550 full day, plus materials, and only ever done with the car dropped off here in the warm.
We turn down a lot of them because they want it done at their work, or home, etc. Nope!! -
I think it’s just one of those things that comes with practice; as ‘profeshinials’, we sometimes get too hung up on perfection, 99% of the time the customer is over the moon with everything and won’t even look at the corners. I’m not saying you can get away with a bad job, but a good job is enough. I always make a point of telling the customer we use knifeless tape to cut inside the panels and explain how it works, I tell them it’s done entirely by hand and as such, won’t always have the perfect computer cut corner / edge.
-
I gave up with Spandex a couple of years ago. even eith a note on my account to NOT SEND PART ROLLS, ie if ordering 10m, I want a 10m length, not a 5, 3 & 2m offcuts, especially on £25+ a mtr wrap films etc. They still did it and I was fed up with the amount of waste it produced.
The other reason I stopped using them was because they never kept my prices more than a couple of months after not buying them. I’d buy certain materials regularly (reflectives especially), although orders were typically a few months apart, I kept getting ridiculous bills for double what I’d paid just a couple of months prior. I had to double check every single invoice for over-charged items that I’d recently had set prices on.
I tent to use Adapt now for my oracal cut film, or William smith for avery equiv and most digi films.
-
I don’t think I’ve ever paid. Usually I get them from the rep or supplier I am buying from anyway, if I get a new supplier wanting me to buy their gear, I would expect a swatch for for. I can’t put their colours in front of a customer if I don’t have a swatch!
-
I still prefer the knife option.
I always cut the rear of the panel I’m about to use, I generally cut through the rear face with a stanley knife and fold down, bend back up and wiggle until it snaps, the front edge will be nicely rounded, only the rear needing to be cleaned up.
For smaller panels I have a 600mm Ideal guillotine, it’s actually made for paper and card but will easily nip through composite and plastics, vcost me next to nothing on facebook market place and is perfect for odd small jobs.
I have in the past used a skill saw (circular saw) with a fine blade on a track, but I hate the mess!
-
If you use metamark and are happy with it, give them a call and see if they do the M7 (?) high tack in whatever colour you need. I hate fitting vinyl to paint these days and generally only use a high tack film now. It will likely mean the wall needs to be rubbed down and repainted upon removal but, that’s a problem for 5yrs time, not 6 weeks time when the modern ‘washable’ paint is repelling the film!
-
We have used it on wraps but, only as much as absolutely required or on really old shi##ers that we know will probably fail, Wouldn’t use it on a new vehicle.
Only time I’ve gone to town with it was when I stripped a failed carbon wrap from a vw T5 camper bonnet, as I stripped the carbon; most of the paint came off with it, after a lengthy chat with the customer, I peeled off the rest of the paint to expose a very good primed bonnet, had no choice but to use it on there as it wouldn’t hold around the edges, air vents etc without, that was back in early summer, it’s still holding well as of two weeks ago when I had a sneaky look around it in a car park!
-
Nice one David!! I’m certainly being more cautious these days, especially when dealing with designers and the client!
-
I’ve been thinking the same of late, vans seem to have dropped off quite significantly, from perhaps two to three a week, to one a week. I’m talking £500-£1k vehicles generally, with a smattering of full or part wraps and larger jobs in there. Other signage is ticking along as per but it’s defo got quieter.
I know we’re fairly expensive compared to a number of our local competitors, but it’s not so much the conversion rate of enquiries to jobs, just the enquiries themselves.
A little concerning, I don’t mind admitting, but we’ll muddle through, it’s been worse!
-
Amari do a .15 skin matt/mill hoarding board, it’s horrible sh#t but that’s what cheap hoarding is in my view! I don’t know the current price but it was much cheaper than the .3 skin I’d ordered.
-
I’m still nursing my old OKI 5600 laser. I haven’t printed garment prints on it in over ten years (at least) so it’s only used for proofs, invoices etc. I just buy all generic third party toner (around £45 a set of four) and refurbished / new old stock image drums etc. on ebay.
Ashamedly I admit to having “kicked the sh## out of it on more than one occasion due to paper jams, then sheepishly put it back together again when I’ve thought about the replacement cost.. it’s still keeps coming back wagging it’s tail!!!
-
Ooops!! I didn’t spot the mistake when I saw this the other day, just thought it was “have a look at this sign” type of thing!
-
I think work (enquiry wise) is already slowing a little, though this time of year often does for me. We’re turning more work away if it’s stuff we don’t find overly profiable, using our time on work that pays.
Our fixed rate energy (via Landlord) went from 14p to 32p a unit back in Jan, we managed to lock in to 2 yrs at that price, but my Jan bill was still over £600 for electric. We defo need to look into more economical heating though.
We now turn off all laminators and switchoffable items at the main switch. Printers and puters on standby, all lights off at night now, despite being low volt hi-spec led. Not much more we can do, we’ve upped our hourly rate from £45p/h by 25% to reflect the fact we have larger premises that need lighting, heating, renting, insuring etc. which has all increased. as has fuel for the van and so on.
What can we do? We no longer stock as much material as we once did, though I do have a habit of over-ordering colour change films and probs have several ££££ of wrap on the racks!! Otherwise it’s being ordered as we need it.
I guess we’re lucky that we don’t rely on low profit / high turnover work, typically I can do 2-3 decent jobs a week (+bread n butter stuff) and still earn reasonable money, compared to one local guy undercutting everything, doing tons of cheap vans etc. yet seemingly earning no more according to companies house!
I think we’ll be ok if we can maintain a reasonable level of enquiry conversions, but belts will need tightening, even if I am committing another £45k on a new work van
😂
-
If local and I can do it en-route to work / home or another job, then I’ll take a look and measure up with no upfront charge, though I will build in a site survey into the over-all cost.
Typically I ask customers for a rough size, photo of the shop front / factory and guide as to what they’re looking for. From there I explain the following:
1) We will give a ball park estimate.
2) If they are happy with the estimate we’ll then take a fee to cover the artwork / design time, and come measure up properly. Usually around 2hrs.
2a) This usually focuses them and you either don’t hear from them again (no loss), or they pay the design fee;- be clear that this is not a deposit on the job but a separate charge, and you’re pretty much guaranteed the job.
3) Once approved, take as big a deposit against the job as you need and book them in!
if they’re unwilling to provide the photo’s measurements etc, then it’s a paid for visit.
-
We use Xero for our accounting system, about £20 a month or so.
Within the invoicing section, I have entered all the retail prices for items I use regularly; ie. Arlon polymeric, arlon polymeric contour cut, PVC banner, etc. etc.
To put a price together I simply create a quote, enter the quantities of materials, est. labour etc. at the bottom will be the price. I can manually adjust the rates if needed (you know, “nice customer price” or “Added Wanker tax”).I can also enter my cost prices into xero for the same materials, though I don’t really bother with this.
Works for me and saves having a separate and expensive calculating software.
https://www.xero.com -
The product appears to be an awful lot more sustainable than my ability to spell in that post!!
-
haha!
-
I’ve only used them 3-4 tims in 17-18 years, but there stuff is good! I put some projecting banners streched on powder coated tentioning system on a cinema in 2005, replaced them in 2018/19 ish, the hardware was still in such good nick that I had them re-powder coated and ready to sell again!
-
Hey Dan,
slow response, I meant to reply to the first post to work with caution.. sorry!
A lot of the cladding stuff is powder coated, of sorts, and doesn’t take too kindly to vinyls. I did a load of unit No’s (printed, supply only) on our regular Arlon for a local estate, within 3 months they were failing. I re-printed onto MD5High tack and popped down to install myself, 6 months later….
Ultimately i told them they’ll need to either accept the fact that they’ll have to replace regularly, or we make composite panels and mechanicnally fix them to the cladding. They stuck it out with stickers for another 18months before eventually going with my composite option.
These panels in question were probably worse than the standard green or blue cladding, they were charcoal colour and south facing, so lots of heat combined with a less than optimal surface was a recipe…
-
I use the latex 365, As David says, just oil the carriage once in a while, wverything else is just consumables which it tells you are getting low, with time to spare.
I use onyx postershop 12 I think, good bit of kit. I also have a stand alone Summa cutter. I don’t think HP make a printer with plotting facility.
-
Funny you should mention using the heads the machine came with, I know I’m not using the mahcine heavily, at all, but the machine is over 2.5yrs old now, had around 60 various carts through it and it still printing fine (touch wood!) on the original heads!
I had a wobble about 4 months ago when a few prints came out wierd, and I panic bought a full set of heads, but I did a load of head cleans and re-ran the old ripped files and they were all perfect, I probably didn’t even need to do the head cleans, it was the old ripped files that had gone weird! The new heads are just sat there waiting patiently!
-
having read that, I did an rgb black yesterday as a contour outline around a load of small text, stuck it on to limo tined windows of a van and it doesn’t look black (on that background).
-
that’s interesting Simon,
You’ve clearly experimented more than I with the settings. I preumse you make those changes to the profile and or in the rip?
-
Hard to say if they’re specifically targeing the end user, or simply offering advice. I’m certain you need an account to be able to see prices and purchase from the website, if I recall I needed to provide a letterhead / company No. to get the account many years ago.
It may have changed, I don’t know.
-
I wasn’t aware they were selling direct, do they have a retail website too?
-
that’ll teach me to open my mouth before thinking!!!!
In fairness, I’ve only used Latex for 8 years!
-
thats some volume through a head!!
FYI, I thought that the heads were K/Y, LC/C, LM/M ? is the 335 different in that it has a C/K head?
-
I think you’d get a 1220 across diagonally though!
-
I think the issue with the signmakers offering a trade service on routed work, is that they get sold these £50k+ machines and don’t really have the work to run them as much as they want to, I know several small firms like this. They then tout trade cutting out to cover the cost.
I do offer trade print on my latex, but I never advertise it, just do my retail price with a big discount for some of my peers / friends who I have worked with over the years, or know from here. Often the case is that they have too small a premises or just not enough demand for £25k of print / lam / cut equipment; much as I was in that position for many years. I am strictly confidential with their clients work, only dealing with the sign firm. I’ve even had their customers approach me for a quote, unawares that I do their printed vinyls anyway, I’ll always politely turn them down, too busy etc. and suggest whoever it is that’s already doing their stuff. Trust has to work both ways!
I wish all my local sign firms had the same morals I work by, or maybe if I had theirs, it would be me in the flash new motor every 2years!
-
Argh, Andy, I really should think of you guys more often; though in honesty I don’t get a huge amount of fabricated signage work, I can sometimes go 6 months without even mention of anything fabriated!
I visited your workshops maybe 8-10yrs ago, possibly more; you know how the times flies!! I was both very impressed at the set-up, and grateful for the tour.
You laterly made me a 6m post and plank sign (iirc), along with a small post & plank sign I could as display. That same sign is bolted to a low wall outside my current premises, has been for some 6-7years. think it’s testament to your workmanship that it still looks bloody good, only a teeny bit of coating corrosion around the bolt heads on the feet (flanges)!!
Hugh
-
I’m chatting to the access hire people later today, hopefully they have something suitable!
-
Thank you Mark,
-
Thank you!
I’ve roughly scaled it to around 16m max working height, can’t say I’m overly comfortable on cherry pickers, much prefer scaffold, but I’ll get an installation team to do this I think, just saves loads of hassle!
-
Argh, gutted!
Sorry for late reply, missed this thread! I can’t think of anything worse than weeding out this small detail stuff, drives your nuts, cramps your fingers and ruins my already ruined eyes!
I did a similar job on similar glass some years ago, I called the customer about 30mins (10%) into the weeding; even the plotting took nearly two hours a panel. I gave them a choice at that point.. we either continue on this path but it’s likely to be near £600 in labour / time alone, or we just print the design in a darker grey on to frosted etch for £250 fitted! Looked awesome and virtually no effort in the end.
-
Thanks Rob, I have hi-vis etc. they can use. Good thinking on the roadside frames, I have a handful kicking around awaiting repurposing! Do you have an example of the kind of H&S blurb you’d put on said sign?
-
Looks great!
-
This is for one of my longest standing and best clients, “No” isn’t an answer I’d like to give them.
Priced correctly this should still be profitable and be a bit of a landmark with regard to what we are prepared to do for clients.
I see this as “The big boys” signage, so to get a foot in the door of this kind of work is good for the ego! -
one of these platforms could work, agreed, might be better than scaffold, just need to check the access.
-
Thank you for such a comprehensive reply Rob, much appreciated.
I will see what we have around here in the way of installation teams. I was tempted to go with a wrapped scaffold, rather than a cherry picker, purely because even on a reasonably nice day it is windy up on that roof, also it costs no more to have it there for two weeks than a few days, so inclement weather shouldn’t be an issue, but I can see which the installation team prefer.
The side with the containers may be problematic, it’s mostly just grassed over beach cobble/shingle, outside of those containers, There is some concrete but access is limited with a cafe now occupying some of that area where those tanks are shown, I don’t think they were there when I visited yesterday.
I will read through your comments again and see about making the arrangements.
H
-
I do prefer scaffold to boom lifts, but I’m considering the time it’s going to take getting all the required gear and signs up 4 or 5 lifts of scaffold!
If I have my way the signage will be mounted on the roof, Hollywood style! -
That’s a massive increase, what vans are they and where are you?
I’m not sure what the poverty spec vans started at or where they are now, but my Transit custom DCIV 170 Sport (top of the range with all the toys, basically) was £35K+vat new, I bought it for £30K off the forecourt, It’s now approaching 4yrs old. When it was 3 yrs old they offered me £26k px but, the new (same) van had jumped to £43k, more than 20% increase for the same van!
As for pricing, I’m always adjusting my pricing, we’re up to £60p/h now. materials I haven’t increased much (cad and digi), only panels and wrap / colour change is based on increased pricing. I’ve always had big mark ups on regular vinyls so still make 4x linear mtr cost at worst, 10x cost at best, though those prices include cutting & weeding time for basic work. There’s a “production time” (hourly rate) if I know it’s goiong to take more than a few minutes pre mtr to weed.
I find most people who are prepared to come in, sit down and discuss will see the value in my costs, those who are just internet price surfing will rarely come back, but I don’t want those “one time, I’m your best mate, do me a great price” customers anyway, great prices come with years of loyalty!
-
Very methodical Simon, super smooth finish. I notice you do very similar to myself, letting the paper relax and pretty much sag down and lay itself flat.
What’s the application paper you’re using?
-
it’s the only way I know!
-
Never heard of Ocado?
They’re considered higher end groceries in general, I think, a partnership between M&S and Ocado to supply groceries. They also supply waitrose food too.FYI..
M&S and Waitrose are like a posh version of Happy Shopper!
-
Handy to know that Rob, O was simply poking rivets head first into a cardboard box and rattle canning them to a close colour, but this is a better option!
-
yup, I find that when a customer is here for an appointment and we sit to [bare bones] design / finalise / quote, they much better understand how it’s costed as I lay it all out (loosely) on the screen to price it, rarely am I questioned regards price any more.
Best
Hugh -
I think you’d have to speak to them to find out if there’s any warranty.
re the black compo issue, I’ve never had a problem with it (touch wood!) I always use skybond with a .3mm skin.
-
VERY good question!
-
Yeah, my wrap guy hates doing them, can’t say I’m keen but, they’re pretty easy money.
-
The beauty of the tape, is that you can re-lay the tape until it’s right. One tip on the corners, or using tape in general, is to hold the tape at least 30cm away from where you’re applying, pull it around the curve from there, while you apply, you’ll get better corners, also straighter straights!
Sounds daft but try it!
-
Once Leah left on Maternity, it all went to pot. Until then I rarely had an issue.
With respect, part rolls shouldn’t be my problem, by saying that you’re just passing on your own stock issues to me.
When I order 10/15/20m of wrap, I want a single piece as I’ve already calculated how much I need and rounded it up… By electing to send me bits of your choosing; I may not be able to wrap a side without a door in one piece.. I also end up with lots of small bits that are good for nothing but the bin, useless in the even that I need to re-do a section.
Typically I order my vinyls in 5m increments, even if I only need a mtr, I’d save those little bitty rolls for the guys who order ther itty bitty lengths that leave you with the odds in the first place.
I don’t know why I’m getting upset over it, I haven’t ordered from SPandex since a 15 or 20m order of reflective, destined to be printed, rocked up in three section, around 1/4 of that went in the bin due to how much lead and tail the printer requires!
-
Oh, I agree with what you’re saying, we don’t do a huge amount of wrap work but do buy a reasonable amount of wrap films for various jobs (3M, Avery SWF, Hexis, APS, Oracal 970, metamrk etc..), without a swatch I can’t be selling it.
The colour card may be cheap, but they just don’t give a good representation of what the colour will be like against the existing colour – in the instance of a part wrap. I tend not to ask or even accept swatches if I don’t think I’ll use them, just no point!
-
I wouldn’t worry on the wrap loss, we’re on the higher end for wraps, starting around £2k+vat for even a small car colour change. I’m not interested in doing it for less as I just know it’ll be a ballache the minute you try and cut any cost / corner / etc.
Fair price for a skilled job, if they want to take a chance with a new guy doing it for likes, then good luck to them!
-
Other than everything that Rob outlined above, it’s a piece of cake to do van graphics… the computer designs it all, the cutter makes it all and the vinyl just applies itself to the vehicle the moment you turn your back, or so clients would have you believe; when they say they can get it for £8.99 (including vat and delivery) from ebay 🤣
-
initially I would assume the big car co’s would do it in house as part of production, or at the dealership. Long term it probably won’t take the Chinese to copy it and sell it in ways we can fit ourselves!
-
ah, I thought we were talking wrap films!
Yes, avery and oracal cad films are similar pricing. I prefer oracal 551 to the equivelant avery though!
-
hahaha!!
I heard someone say Rozzers the other day, that made me chuckle, as does a guy at my gym who has a colourful past, he walls them The PoPo!!
-
We have a 50/50/50/100 for a deep black, whch we generally use when subbing banners / flags / display stuff.
Just make sure your heat is correct as it takes some drying. I can’t imaging what 100% across the board would be like, that’s a ton of ink. 99% of the time I just use 100% black and have no issues. The customer still sees black, it’s only us that really notice it.
If you have a black rgb image within the print, you’re almost certainly going to have to use a heavier black though, typically I use an eye dropper tool to copy the rgb colour as a cmyk.
Lots of little nuances with the HP, but great pritners in general
-
Are you sure? I wonder if you’re paying too much for oracle? from memory I get oracal around £7 a mtr cheaper than avery supreme (black / white).
-
I’ve noticed this quite a bit lately, thought it was just my pc being glitchy 🤣
-
agreed, I looked into the cost for a cutomer, 4m x 2m worked out around £13k +vat to buy in!
-
I suspect the vans will come down in price, unless they deliberately keep supply short. I was just fortunate that my transit custom sport is worth almost as much on the forecourt today, as I paid 3yrs ago, I got £5k off the van on the forecourt so £30k instead of £35k, after 3 yrs I have £15k equity in the van! However, the equivelent new van is now £43k!! So I’m looking at a spec’d up premium Vito instead, making use of the equity!
As for making quotes up. We’ll give a rough price on a job but no visuals or effort put in to it unless we have an artwork fee, we’ll then do the artwork to suit their budget.
If they don’t want to do that then they can sit down with me and we’ll spend 30-60mins knocking out the bare bones of a design and a price, if they like it I’ll take the artwrk fee and flesh out the design with proofs. At this point there’s still no visuals given until money is in the bank, no “can I take a photo to show the wife / busi partner /dog / cat” nonsense either, show me the money, then you can take your design away or they can come in to see it!! Gets rid of wasters at the start then.
-
I’ve done the same, with a new blade, on my brand new Custom Sport passenger side glass a few yrs back, only lightly cutting too! I no longer cut against glass with the olfa blades!
-
Hey Handsome,
good to see you say hello again! I don’t get on much these days, I guess mainly fb and social media to blame but, I’m slowly winding fb (the worst) back and spending a bit more time here!
you kept the sign work quiet, I haven’t seen you mention it on fb!