Activity Feed Forums Sign Making Discussions Neon, LED, Lighting whats the pros & cons of led lighting?

  • whats the pros & cons of led lighting?

    Posted by Paul Davenport on November 24, 2002 at 11:03 pm

    Well its twoish years in the planning and research but we are about to embark on a new venture with LEDs

    having looked at hundreds of types and systems, we have finally settled on one to supply to the trade and end users

    Ihave answered every question i can think of regarding the LEDs and there specific uses in the sign industry BUT i need a bit of help

    FIRE some questions at me, i.e can it do this and that, will it go here, when i can provide a solution for the questions then I will be 100% confident in the product

    please ask away no matter how simple or complicated it may be

    Steve Madley replied 19 years, 1 month ago 7 Members · 12 Replies
  • 12 Replies
  • Martin Pearson

    Member
    November 24, 2002 at 11:46 pm

    OK Paul, I’ll start the ball rolling for you.

    How many colours do LEDS come in ?

    How do they compare brightness wise with neon and fibre optics.

    What are the advantages of using LEDS as opposed to other forms of lighting.

    Where typically do you see them being used.

    Is that enough to start you off ?

  • Mike Brown

    Member
    November 25, 2002 at 12:16 am

    and…

    what happens if rain falls onto the actual LED?

    does the entire system have to be water-tight?

    if one LED in a set goes down – do they all go down?

    do LED’s give as bright a show in temperatures below freezing?

    do LED’s glow less with age?

    In the event of a power surge – will the LED’s survive?

    are the LED displays left on all day and night or are they timed?

    can faulty LED’s be exchanged by the customer?

    can you guarantee that those fitted today will be replacable, like-for-like in a few years time or will it require rebuilding the system to accomodate the latest style of LED?

    can LED’s deform acrylic letters in large numbers due to heat?

    are there any specific problems associated with using LED systems in sea-front locations where they will be exposed to salt-air?

    In the event of vandals smashing letters off fascias – will exposed high voltage wires be a danger until assistance arrives or the system is shut off?

    can the letters or other items being illuminated by LED be washed liberally with hot soapy water and brushes etc.?

    In the event of leaf and litter debris building up behind a facia letter – could this cause the LED systems to overheat or ignite the debris?

    if I think of any more – I’ll post em?…lol

    more soon

    mikethesign

  • Martin Pearson

    Member
    November 25, 2002 at 12:37 am

    Not to be outdone ……

    How do running costs compare with other forms of lighting

    what are the dissadvantages of using leds

    what is the typical life expectancy of an led

    do people need to have any special quallification to install leds

    how easy are leds to change

    can colours be changed without replacing the whole system

  • Robert Lambie Robert Lambie

    Member
    November 25, 2002 at 8:20 pm

    HHMMMM now i think i waite and see what replies come here before getting involved… 😆 😆

    but on a serious note paul… if they are good and at the right price i would be interested in starting to use them. ive been looking at leds as you may know for a while now… so if your becoming a supplier… good stuff 😉

  • Tim Shaw

    Member
    November 25, 2002 at 9:33 pm

    Are they for backlighting acrylic boxes? or for decoration only.

    Are they programmable into patterns?

    240 v or is a transformer required?

    What is mimimun order qtys?

  • Paul Davenport

    Member
    November 25, 2002 at 9:49 pm

    YEAAA

    keep em coming

    Mike theres a good one or two in there mate !!!!!!

  • Paul Davenport

    Member
    November 27, 2002 at 10:32 pm

    OK heres some answers to those questions

    How many colours do LEDS come in ?

    white, green, cyan, blue, royal blue, red, red/orange and amber/yellow as well as being able to mix colours ie red and white to give pink light

    How do they compare brightness wise with neon and fibre optics.

    Very well, starting brightest first you get red/orange, red, amber,cyan, green, white, blue and royal blue the reds out shine neon, whilst the whites and blues are comparable but you need to use a few more leds per metre

    I wouldent compare to fibre optics in signs yet as i think that optics arnt really that usefull in illuminating signs(ask me more if you like)

    What are the advantages of using LEDS as opposed to other forms of lighting.

    cost, easy installation, durability, re-usable,power savings, easy to design into projects

    Where typically do you see them being used.

    Definatly in channel letters, i have already decided that red LEDs have replaced neon for typical illumination properties and soon the other colours will go that way

    Well that should keep you happy, now onto mikes encyclopedia of questions

  • Paul Davenport

    Member
    November 27, 2002 at 10:59 pm

    Here we go

    what happens if rain falls onto the actual LED?
    It could cause a temporary short circuit, but would not damage the LED or cause a dangerous situation

    does the entire system have to be water-tight?

    Ideally yes, water ingress could cause a problem with the connections over time, the use of a silicon grease on the connectors would help this matter, std channel letter construction should keep the elements away from the LEDs

    if one LED in a set goes down – do they all go down?

    This would happen on RED LEds but would be a very rare situation

    do LED’s give as bright a show in temperatures below freezing?

    Brightness will increase in lower temperatures and still light instantaniously

    do LED’s glow less with age?

    Yes typically around 60 000 hours they start to lose light out put, but not drastically

    In the event of a power surge – will the LED’s survive?

    the electronic driver wil protect against this

    are the LED displays left on all day and night or are they timed?

    Customer choice, It can be a fully programable system

    can faulty LED’s be exchanged by the customer?

    Yes, simple plug and play connections enable ease of maintenance

    can you guarantee that those fitted today will be replacable, like-for-like in a few years time or will it require rebuilding the system to accomodate the latest style of LED?
    they should be available for around 5/6 years,the next generation of LEds will be brighter, but you could dim down the light out put to match the existing system

    can LED’s deform acrylic letters in large numbers due to heat?

    the heat generated is less than you would get from comparible amounts of neon

    are there any specific problems associated with using LED systems in sea-front locations where they will be exposed to salt-air?

    Direct contact with salt spray tends to corrode contacts, a conformal coating is available at an additional cost, having had first hand experiance of manufacturing signs for the sea-front (DT signs- Blackpool), every sign has to be made as watertight as possible, if you apply this to LED signs then you will be OK

    In the event of vandals smashing letters off fascias – will exposed high voltage wires be a danger until assistance arrives or the system is shut off?

    The systems run at 12-24 v max so there is no danger, short circuits would be automatically shut down by the drivers, it should be connected up to current breakers anyhow which would trip in the event

    can the letters or other items being illuminated by LED be washed liberally with hot soapy water and brushes etc.?

    You can wash the letters, but try to keep the leds dry as you would with neon etc

    In the event of leaf and litter debris building up behind a facia letter – could this cause the LED systems to overheat or ignite the debris?

    Max temperature in a worst case scenario is 100 deg so there is no fire risk

    well thats mikes done

  • Paul Davenport

    Member
    November 27, 2002 at 11:06 pm

    and a few more

    How do running costs compare with other forms of lighting
    lets compare to neon, i am told about 1/3 of the cost

    what are the dissadvantages of using leds

    Them being new technology in a way, and not fully understood other than that i will let you know

    what is the typical life expectancy of an led

    between 50000 and 100000 hours

    do people need to have any special quallification to install leds

    Nope although you need to know what youre doing with wiring etc

    how easy are leds to change

    Easier than typing this

    can colours be changed without replacing the whole system

    Yep, as there plug and play moduals

    Is that it

  • Paul Davenport

    Member
    December 3, 2002 at 9:08 pm

    one more point to add

    We will also be using/supplying a spray on conformal acrylic sealer to help protect against water / moisture ingress, this came about after an inquiry on the sea front !!!!!!!

  • Mark Horley

    Member
    July 9, 2003 at 9:57 pm

    Paul Have you set up suppling led’s yet…I have a job coming up for them…I understand a bit about LED…We fitted Pizza Hut Restaurants with them for a big nottingham company…using sloanled….ordered in america…made in singapore…shipped to austrailia then to us…We had a guy come from america to train us for the first one in Cardiff..So if you have got stock of possibly blue/turq I would be interested…We don’t need a lot its for undercounter lighting…
    While were on the subject can you cross fade LED?????

  • Steve Madley

    Member
    July 10, 2003 at 12:24 pm

    I’ve seen the LED moving message signs using cross-fade and it’s used in disco/fx lighting, so, yes.