MemberApril 24, 2021 at 6:27 am
The only thing I can think off is that this was done during the big freeze.
I was feeding the vinyl in.
I was hoping the vinyl is going strong into the recess, but because of the cold indoor workshop temperature, maybe the vinyl didn’t kiss the deep recess of the van.
The silicone joins are so big, that pressure points are just to strong, and it failed.
Moral is down.
How do I improve on this?
MemberApril 24, 2021 at 8:09 am
There are a million reasons for a wrap to fail, outgassing, cleaning, overstretching etc. but those vans are a MASSIVE ask for a polymeric vinyl. Feeding into a recess is no guarantee with recesses as deep as those, especially when so close to a flexible joint like that. I would say as said in another recent thread with a similar problem, that your material selection was wrong.
These manufacturers are dangling carrots with these hybrids. If they could do the job, Avery, 3M & Arlon would be out of business. Don’t beat yourself up over it, you were mis sold on the vinyl.
Remember this (your supplier will deny responsibility) the next time your rep is trying to offload a new & improved version of this vinyl onto you. The responsibility ALWAYS ends up at your door. Always over specify your vinyl
MemberApril 24, 2021 at 11:21 am
As Kevin mentioned this product is sold as a wrap film and may work well on a Volkswagen Beetle but when it comes to commercial vehicles stick with a true cast
MDX is marketed as a Cylinder Cast (they made this name up) its either a calendared vinyl or it’s a cast vinyl. You’ve used a Polymeric film that will shrink and in your case break.
For commercial vehicles stick with a true cast, fit it correctly and you should have no comebacks
MemberApril 24, 2021 at 7:40 pm
i have heard this before about metalmarks so called cast vinyl. its a cast or its not!
vote with your feet because no matter what, your the one taking the fall for this.
that said, i dont know how you should tackle this one. best of luck!
MemberApril 24, 2021 at 9:00 pm
Apparently it shares some of the same process that cast vinyl does. I can only imagine this would be rolling it up, putting it in a bag & then putting it in a box. Almost identical really
AdministratorApril 24, 2021 at 11:12 pm
Apparently it shares some of the same process that cast vinyl does. I can only imagine this would be rolling it up, putting it in a bag & then putting it in a box.
AdministratorApril 24, 2021 at 11:36 pm
Metamark Cyclindered Cast:
I have heard about the cylindered cast description of this “wrapping vinyl”.
Without knowing more about it I cannot give a fair comment.
Cast vinyl, is a poured liquid.
Calendered vinyl, is a compressed gum/dough.
For what it’s worth, when I was given a tour of the Oracal factory I have stood about away 3ft from vinyl being made in front of me, as well as Calendered being compressed between the chrome cylinders in another location of the factory. These two parts of manufacturing are not the same or can be combined.
AdministratorApril 25, 2021 at 12:08 am
For what it is worth mate, you have made a good effort to have the vinyl only to fail to this extent!
Personal opinion, but I do not see any wrapping vinyl on the planet being warrantied to wrap over this. Nor do I know of one that would be capable of it. I blame this primarily on the types of adhesive systems available because they are geared around an easy application, limited initial bond etc. throw into the mix and you have two layers of vinyl and there is less and less chance of a successful wrap over this type of area.
@KevinMahoney posted a similar panel join but more difficult again! this is because that join was right at the back end of a deep recess. from memory, he created joins in the panel and butted them up to the join line and folded it in at a part to disguise the joins. Without looking real close at his work, ide say that’s probably the best solution to this task.
Yours, albeit not just as tricky, I think should be tackled in the same way and that is to lay the vinyl down the line, so the left and right side of the join line is a separate piece of vinyl.
Before starting to install anything, using an Airfix style paintbrush, run a line of 3M primer down the corner of the join line on either side and let it dry 15 mns. then apply the vinyl.
once fitted, post-heat it immediately after using heat and a squeegee to promote adhesion and make sure the vinyl is in tight.
once complete, run a patch line down the panel join, which should only be about 10mm wide to hide the separation of the panels.
For the record, I NEVER use Primer when wrapping, nor advise it! but this is a case of, the vinyl is not capable of achieving a proper bond/wrap over this surface/task. And do not let your supplier tell you differently. And if they do? ask them for a signed guarantee that they will not only warrant it, but give you a full cash refund and reimburse you for your time installing, stripping and refitting it!
I think advising your customer this fail is not an easy fix and not something commercialy viable for you to give your businesses application warranty to cover. there for simply fitting the wrap as two tiles, one either side of the raised join and trimmed neat. exposing the actual raised join. should suffice.
MemberApril 26, 2021 at 12:09 pm
I hate these van as the joints are so ugly and hard to cover, I went on an Avery wrap course and the trainer told us you would be best to trim each side of the joint and remove the bit covering the mastic as it will fail, but Avery suggest and this was how we had to fit on the day cover heat and trim, leave in place.
I am now thinking and looking at jobs I have done that a black strip of cast to cover the mastic and wrap to that so it should work like a shadow gap?
Never trust a salesman, my Arlon reps are telling me Avery 1105 is not warranted for deep channels, full of S#*t I think…..
Good luck sorting it Pane
MemberApril 26, 2021 at 1:53 pm
Just finished off a roll of SLX & found it to be pretty good to be fair, but in my opinion Avery 1105 just has the edge on it. If I get another one of those monstrosities in, that’s the only material I would have any faith in. I’ve done 4 of them in ij180 & they are the most dreadful vans I’ve ever worked on
MemberApril 28, 2021 at 8:30 pm
I wrap a fair few larger commercial vehicles, the area you have shown is a seam between two panels. The only way I get these to properly work with cast is to wrap from rear to front over the seam lift off and let the vinyl relax as it goes in over and back in. Then line cut tape over the side of the seam already wrapped perform the same the other way and pull the the wrap it through the top layer to trim top vinyl. They are the most difficult part of a lwb van to achieve a long lasting wrap. I also agree the metamark pretend cast isn’t worth the fails, have peace of mind and protect your reputation. Hope this helps and makes sense!
MemberApril 30, 2021 at 4:37 pm
AdministratorMay 3, 2021 at 9:50 am
I think this is the correct choice Pane. It will certainly be the best long term option.
At the end of the day, this could keep coming back to bite you if not addressed properly. Costing you time, money and reputation.
Note: When doing the recess part. be aware that as the vinyl stretches into the recess, the vinyl will stretch “away” from the panel join, creating a slightly larger space than it being butt-joined down the seam. There are some cheats to get around this but just mentioning it.
easy way to test it is to put a scrap of vinyl over the area and do a test stretch and you will see what I mean.
MemberMay 7, 2021 at 1:51 pm
Thank you Robert. Appreciate it! I start the repair work from next week.
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