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  • Iain George

    Member
    August 16, 2021 at 7:15 am

    These vinyls Metamark M7 were installed 6 weeks ago and now the yellow has failed but not the purple. Could this be due to a Low VOC paint or a bad batch of yellow vinyl. These are several of these installations all over the campus and the yellow has failed in all locations. Also failed is the MD-TX2. The walls for the MD-TX2 had a PVA wash 1 day before application.

    • This discussion was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  Iain George.
  • Robert Lambie

    Administrator
    August 16, 2021 at 2:34 pm

    when one vinyl is working right next to another vinyl that is failing, I would have to assume it was the failing vinyl that was at fault, rather than the surface.

    I am not ruling out the surface may also be to blame, but if the vinyl is “perhaps” shrinking on a surface that is not ideal to adhere to. then the vinyl would be the first thing i would look to change.

    is the purple the same make and series of vinyl?
    has both been on your shelf the same length of time?

  • Iain George

    Member
    August 16, 2021 at 3:06 pm

    Rob

    All of the cut vinyl is Metamark M7. Everything was installed at the same time. The material was all ordered in for the job so not been on my shelves for any time but maybe at Metamark.

  • Robert Lambie

    Administrator
    August 16, 2021 at 7:18 pm

    If the wall has all been treated the same, and that blue text is the same vinyl as the yellow. then something is certainly happening as a result of the yellow vinyl.
    you have a thin blue line above and below the thin line font text.
    the thin text and lines have a third of the adhesion that the yellow text has due to surface coverage. so that again goes against the blues ability to adhere to the wall, yet the blue has zero problems. yet the yellow has problems with every single letter.

    Maybe the yellow has been shelved for much longer than the blue at the supplier. difficult to give a fair view doing it only from photos.

  • Kevin Mahoney

    Member
    August 17, 2021 at 6:46 am

    Did you use a hot air gun the warm the material & go over the letters with a felt squeegee after removing the app tape Iain? That stippled texture won’t have helped the application much.

    • Iain George

      Member
      August 17, 2021 at 6:54 am

      No we didn’t but have never seen a failure like this on this scale before so wouldn’t have thought about a heat gun. Saying that the other areas where it has failed are smoother walls. Also would not the other vinyl have failed if the texture was an issue? Could it be to do with the make up of the two colours that , I am clutching at straws here, the darker materials are letting throught less light and have a heavier layer of adhesive on the back of them?

      I shall be sending the images to Metamark to ask the questions also.

  • Kevin Mahoney

    Member
    August 17, 2021 at 8:21 am

    From experience, I have a rough idea of the response you’re likely to get from Metamark, can’t see them voluntarily accepting liability & you’ll struggle to prove it without a chemistry degree & a team of scientists. You will still have the issue to deal with though, & you can’t leave your client with his thumb up his backside for too long.

    It could be a perfect storm of issues causing this & difficult to identify an exact cause. The adhesive may well be different on both vinyls, unsuitable paint, old & new vinyl stock or quite possibly you applied a bit more pressure on the darker thinner text before removing the tape? Perhaps, if the yellow vinyl wasn’t pressed in firmly enough, removing the tape weakened the bond? As a test, gently warm one of the letters with a gun & if you see air bubbles forming, then that vinyl isn’t likely to be bonded properly & will probably start to fail quite soon after. It’s worth trying before replacing it at your own expense

  • Robert Lambie

    Administrator
    August 18, 2021 at 12:29 am

    I agree with Kev on the heat and pressure side of the application.
    Heat will soften the vinyl allowing it to mould into micro-texture of these types of walls. The heat will also software the adhesive and create a better bond. Pressure from the likes of a firm foam roller from B&Q or a Rolle-pro type applicator while applying some heat will again promote a better bond and mould the vinyl into the texture of the surface.

    If both yellow and blue vinyl is the same series. the vinyl will be made the same, just different colour pigmentation etc. the adhesive should be the same too.
    the digital vinyl will be a different make-up and the adhesive looks like it’s grey-backed, possibly solvent but you also get the water-based adhesives also.

  • Paul Hodges

    Member
    August 18, 2021 at 12:08 pm

    Iain, why don’t you try a few letters in another yellow, just make sure it’s actually new. That will prove it one way or the other.

    I’ve had this a few times over the years and it’s always been old vinyl that was the culprit. Difficult wall surfaces and you get the issue all over not just on one colour

  • Iain George

    Member
    September 10, 2021 at 12:24 pm

    We have decided to go with high tac vinyl all all parts of the job.

    Thanks for the all the replies.

  • Robert Lambie

    Administrator
    September 11, 2021 at 4:04 pm

    Not sure if you have already re-produced this, but Spandex have launched a high tack range of “coloured” vinyl.

  • Dan Evans

    Member
    September 13, 2021 at 8:30 am

    Some really good advice here.

    I tried fitting some graphics to a painted wall in my office. PVA’d the wall before hand and left for 48 hours roughly and it failed pretty quickly, I put this down to my mixture. I found High tac the the way to go although I still haven’t completed the job my my tests went on perfect.

    I’m pretty sure Metamark have also started producing high tac coloured vinyl.

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