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  • Laminating Issue, help needed with wave/stretch marks?

  • Gary Barker

    Member
    September 30, 2014 at 5:36 pm

    Hi All
    I’ve been doing laminating now for the last 7 or 8 years, but I hate it, I can never get it to perfect, not sure if it’s a cheap laminator – NeoLam 1650/E is the problem or cheap materials, or to do with heat or to cold in the factory, I run every job cold, some jobs I laminate on to a board if it’s not on a roll, and some jobs are about 7 or8 metres long so just roll them up and feed them by hand, I get a lot of the material with like a wave marks in the material (on the finished job) after about 4 or 5 metres don’t know if it is stretching or slipping ?, I see this a lot to (see pics) I’ve tried more tension and tried less but not sure what it is, it only seems to happen on one side, please can you help.
    thanks, Gary

    Attachments:

  • Kevin Flowers

    Member
    September 30, 2014 at 7:05 pm

    Hi
    not saying this is your problem, but one thing to consider as well as checking that everything is set right is that the machine is level. Uneven floors can lay havoc with the machine due to twisting of the frame.

    Kev

  • Denise Goodfellow

    Member
    September 30, 2014 at 7:07 pm

    We bought a laminator when we first bought a printer, like yourself we couldn’t laminate long runs with out issues.

    In desperation one day we ask another signmaker to laminate a print.

    His laminator was one bought on eBay for £600. Ours at the time cost about £2000. We bought the cheap version and never looked back. It could be your machine……

  • Luke Culpin

    Member
    September 30, 2014 at 10:13 pm

    Could be a number of things including a fraction to much pressure (rollers are lowered to tightly) but I would say it’s most likely out of line. We bought a laminator like this. Called up laco laminates, Steve visited and reset alignments and it’s worked perfectly ever since. Think they are based in Manchester but do travel the country.

  • Gary Barker

    Member
    September 30, 2014 at 10:24 pm

    thank you all

    emmm (rollers are lowered to tightly) that might be it, if the leader board ive used is not perfectly square and its to tight that may be the problem, also I bought it of steve so ill give him a bell if that doesn’t fix it

    thanks

  • Jon Marshall

    Member
    October 1, 2014 at 10:46 am

    I often get the same thing. I think its just down to the pot luck of whether you get the leader board 100% straight or not. Surpised no one can come up with a system to make things easier in that regard.

  • Gary Barker

    Member
    October 1, 2014 at 1:23 pm

    just watched this, looks like a good way to load up the laminator

  • Andrew Blackett

    Member
    October 1, 2014 at 6:59 pm

    I use that very same technique after watching that video Gary – it works a treat.

    We use a "snitty" cutter to cut the backing paper and leave the laminate intact.

    Andy

  • Stafford Cox

    Member
    November 23, 2014 at 7:38 pm

    I can assure you Gary, Neolam’s are NOT cheap ones. As lots of others have said, it’s probably just getting the pressures set correctly for the media. However, if you need any manuals, advice or parts for it, let me know.

    Stafford

    • Andy Murdoch

      Member
      December 14, 2021 at 1:09 pm

      Hi

      Reading this thread we are having issues with laminating and our Neolam 1650c doesn’t go down lower than .5mm anymore can you recommend anyone to service it and give us some training we are located in Guildford Surrey

      Many thanks

  • Kevin Flowers

    Member
    November 23, 2014 at 8:55 pm

    Looking at that picture again i think it may be threaded wrong, normally laminate will pull from backing paper with backing paper going around idle roller, could be wrong don’t know the machine

    Kev

  • David Hammond

    Member
    November 24, 2014 at 9:39 am

    Yes looking at the picture I wouldn’t have thought the laminate would go over that metal bar?

    On our EasyMount the laminate & backing goes behind/underneath so it separates from the backing at approx 90degrees to the top of the top roller.

  • Hugh Potter

    Member
    November 25, 2014 at 10:17 am

    I agree with both above. The laminate should be under the bar with the paper being pulled up, this way the laminate isn’t damaged against the bar too.

    on my easymount (760) the bar is slightly bent, only a couple of mm off centre but enough to cause this all the time, I had exactly this problem at that time.

  • Paul Hodges

    Member
    November 25, 2014 at 1:29 pm

    Sounds like you’re getting the boat wake pattern, which happens when the edges drag a little bit.

    That is usually caused by laminate being same width as vinyl, but inevitably overhanging and grabbing.

    Best piece of advice for laminating issues: Get it serviced, if the brakes are worn then you’ll get incorrect tension, it won’t matter what you do it will never give nice results.

  • Gary Barker

    Member
    November 28, 2014 at 10:21 pm

    thanks all for the advice, I’ve started to feed it under the bar, it’s better thanks, it does track out still so I think I’m not loading quite right and not getting the brake tension right, I have good days and bad days on this, not sure the weather (cold) helps its colder in our works than outside 🙁 because some of the jobs we are laminating are only 2.5m long I’m thinking of buying one of these rollovers or a William Smiths Rollsroller has anyone got one?

    https://youtu.be/wAzEaRiOI7w

  • Kevin Flowers

    Member
    November 28, 2014 at 10:40 pm

    Gary
    that is not a laminator its for applying vinyl to rigid board etc, cold will alter the laminate because of glue and film being affected by temperature variations. Do you use a feeder board to feed the laminate between the rolls leaving enough board to feed vinyl under so that when you go forward board pops out and vinyl is in place. Over 2.5 mtrs if your leading edge is out by even 3mm you could end up being anything from 10mm to 25mm out on the side.

    Kev

  • Gary Barker

    Member
    November 28, 2014 at 10:50 pm

    Hi Kev, yea I know its for using with rigid boards but it will apply laminate (I hope) the video ive seen they do laminating with it to, the temperature is about 10 degrees, we are working trying insulate the building so we can get some better heating, I use a leading board but the prints im laminating are not on a cardboard tube, because we have to leave on a tables to degas, so i roll them up, sometimes I will mount the print on to a board just the lead edge to a dibond board then the same with the laminate, this works better for me, but im limited to 3m long.

  • Warren Beard

    Member
    November 29, 2014 at 10:06 am

    I’ve had 3 easymounts (still got 2) and they have all always done this even from brand new. I use a leader board but have tried many different methods and always get the same results to different degrees. I think it’s near impossible to line up the laminate and media 100% and as Kev mentioned even 1mm out could be 10mm out after a meter. When we got our new 1600 easymount it did the same thing so we got the engineer in to look at it as it was under warranty, they played around with the gears a bit and it helped quiet a bit but did not eliminate the problem completely. They also loaded it differently by pulling the laminate right through and lining up with the roll on the rear which does waste at least a meter each time you load, we tried both options for a while and found no difference so stuck to using the leader board.

    When we have long multiple prints on a roll we leave 100mm between each print so when it runs off too much we stop the rollers in between the prints, slice off the remaining media and trim square and feed it back under the media and carry on, this avoids having to continuously reload the laminate.

    We also have a Rapid Applicator and do use it for laminating but nothing longer than 2m max and it doesn’t give perfect results due to all the cut marks/grooves on the cutting mat. It can help on occasions but would never use as a dedicated laminator.

    Not very helpful I know but at least you know you’re no alone, we’ve simply learned to adapt.

    Cheers

    Warren

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