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  • Floor Graphics, help and advice please?

  • Peter Thomas

    Member
    May 13, 2020 at 5:35 pm

    Hi

    Currently producing floor graphics and laminating with the correct non-slip laminate.

    I’m now looking at moving to the Grafityp 2 in 1 FloorPrint textured vinyl.
    http://www.grafityp.co.uk

    My question is if I’m not laminating the end print as this vinyl negates the need for a laminate how well will eco-solvent inks hold up to cleaning products etc?

    Does anybody use this setup who can give any feedback?

    Or is it best just to stick to floor vinyl and a separate laminate?

    Thanks

    Peter


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  • Paul Hughes

    Member
    May 13, 2020 at 11:23 pm

    I’m using Kernow Floor Shark, and it’s a British product.

    http://www.kernowcoatings.com


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  • Robert Lambie

    Member
    May 13, 2020 at 11:35 pm

    good question Peter, always good to see someone questioning what we are told/sold.

    The following is a very "basic" explanation of my views on this type of product, but necessarily the actual product you are looking to buy.

    You have a digital material that has a micro-textured matt surface which helps create the anti-skid side of this product, This means you do not need the anti-skid laminate on top. (saving for the customer, and easier sell for you)
    You then print onto this as normal and apply to the floor surface.
    Traffic passing over the prints WILL eventually rub and remove the ink on the raised areas of the textured vinyl.
    But all the ink within the lower areas of the vinyl’s texture will not come into direct contact with shoes etc so will not be rubbed off due to abrasion damage. Keep in mind this texture is pretty much invisible to the naked eye.

    What will happen though, is once the raised areas of ink rub away, the print WILL very slightly appear to fade.
    Next comes the golden question… Detergent, bleach and any other chemical the floors are washed with on a daily basis will also attack the remaining ink within the texture of the vinyl. this can only fade the prints more and more till you are left with a white floor graphic shape only.

    It is like everything else in our game, there is a tool for every job. but in my opinion, this material is short term and how short that is will be determined by the location of the floor prints and the volume of traffic passing over it.
    this COVID19 situation is not going away anytime soon, with most reporting it will be at least 2 years before we see the back of it. So in my opinion here, it is best to offer your customer 2 options…

    Short Term, budget floor graphics.
    Long term, premium floor graphics.

    It then gives you a talking point with your customer to highlight what most will be quoting on. i.e. short term. but gives you the opportunity to upsell your product with the anti-skid laminate that will also protect against chemical, UV and abrasion damage.


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  • Martyn Heath

    Member
    May 14, 2020 at 7:41 am

    Ive been following this post and hope you dont mind me butting in. Ive got a job coming up for the local football team. They are having new changing rooms built and would like the team logo on the floor in middle of room. Now i know there are floor materials as discussed but imo it doesnt need to be anti slip but im wondering how normal laminated vinyl would hold up with boot stud wear (although they tell me its an offense to walk on the logo, they will walk around it, ye right!)

  • Joe Killeen

    Member
    May 14, 2020 at 8:44 am

    If you don’t need it slip rated (leaving yourself open to claims if someone falls) use a laminate for motocross decals 300mic very hard to cut on most plotters.

  • Myles Brewer

    Member
    May 14, 2020 at 11:35 am

    I’ve just had a couple of orders for covid floor graphics & grappled with the same dilemma of which type product to go with. Textured vinyl/PET with no need to laminate or standard vinyl with anti slip laminate.
    My concerns were as Rob states but having trawled through different brands spec sheets & spoken to manufacturers (Kernow Coatings re floorshark & Drytac re their new Polar floor PET.) I was convinced & purchased the Drytac. Have just printed on HP365 latex & am NOT 100% confident in the scratch resistance of the black!! Now being that most covid signage is black & yellow makes this a potential issue!
    It may be a case of tweaking the profile a little (Drytac don’t yet have one as the product is so new to market, but suggested what the thought were suitable settings).
    I feel my choices now are to warn my customer that it there are any issues with them that I will replace with a laminated product or else actually laminate the PET with a non slip laminate to protect them & say nothing!! But I’ve already cut them so this would have to be done individually …aarrrggghh!
    Beginning to think I made the wrong choice!

    Luckily I know the customers well & think I’ll just say keep an eye on them & see what happens.

    I know I’m going to be getting a good few more enquiries for floor graphics so need to get this sorted.
    Bearing in mind these will all need to be removed at sometime in the not too distant future & preferably without leaving a heap of adhesive residue behind, but also they need to stick well!!
    Does anyone have any tried & tested brands/options that fit the bill.
    (& that work on latex preferably [emoji106][emoji4])

  • Graham Scanlan

    Member
    May 14, 2020 at 4:54 pm

    HI Myles

    If you go for a 2 part system, there isn’t anything special about the print vinyl, that can be either permanent, removable or even Hi tack. It’s the laminate you should pay attention to. We sell lots of Mactac LUV6301 (3 month) and LUV6300 6 month and since the covid virus plenty of street rap and street Lam. I would recommend you use the same brand for the print vinyl and Lam just incase you have any issues. There are other brands available of course

  • Peter Thomas

    Member
    May 14, 2020 at 6:37 pm

    That’s brilliant thank you.

    I always prefer to laminate for my own peace of mind. Not worth risking your company name with a product that won’t last.

    Laminate it is then [emoji1360]

  • Hugh Potter

    Member
    May 15, 2020 at 7:51 am

    Is anyone printing Kernow floor shark with L26500 latex?

    Interested to know if there are any issues as mentioned above on another material?

    We’re selling short term (3rd party until my stock comes in) but want to push the longer term decals, Matamark suggested their MD5 is fine to use with their metaguard floor laminate, so we’ll go that route I’m sure. But as a cheaper (less economical) offering we’ll do either metawalk or the kernow, just interested to see who prefers what / what results you’ve had.

    H

  • Colin Crabb

    Member
    May 15, 2020 at 8:30 am

    Simply, if you want them to last then use the laminate version.
    In commercial / high traffic areas the textured version will not last long, I’ve had reports of 2 weeks from a client whom bought them ‘cheap’ form Ebay to save a few Quid… and now ordering the 2 part version from us.

  • Hugh Potter

    Member
    May 15, 2020 at 9:34 am
    quote Colin Crabb:

    Simply, if you want them to last then use the laminate version.
    In commercial / high traffic areas the textured version will not last long, I’ve had reports of 2 weeks from a client whom bought them ‘cheap’ form Ebay to save a few Quid… and now ordering the 2 part version from us.

    Thanks for the reply Colin, I’ll advise customers accordingly.

  • Iain Pearson

    Member
    May 16, 2020 at 7:43 am

    Ive tried a few different manufacturers products, including those mentioned by others, printed on HP Latex machine, and I wasn’t impressed with any of them.
    They are fine for a few days, but depending on volume of traffic, can start scuffing up in a matter of hours.
    We have eliminated single hit floor graphics completely and now only offer a 2 part system with a minimum of R10 rating.

    One thing which has always puzzled me though, Slip ratings are required for the graphics, but the floors they are being applied to don’t – go figure :yikes:

  • Hugh Potter

    Member
    May 17, 2020 at 6:23 pm
    quote Iain Pearson:

    Ive tried a few different manufacturers products, including those mentioned by others, printed on HP Latex machine, and I wasn’t impressed with any of them.
    They are fine for a few days, but depending on volume of traffic, can start scuffing up in a matter of hours.
    We have eliminated single hit floor graphics completely and now only offer a 2 part system with a minimum of R10 rating.

    One thing which has always puzzled me though, Slip ratings are required for the graphics, but the floors they are being applied to don’t – go figure :yikes:

    That crossed my mind the other day Iain – the slippy floor thing.

    Also I’ve decided to only offer the two part as well, just not interested in something so short term that it’s likely to have some kind of comeback, I’ve several orders on back order and will cancel the unlaminated materials first thing… on a plus, it’s less stock to carry!

  • Jamie Wood

    Member
    May 18, 2020 at 6:15 am

    We do all of ours using the 2 part system. Too risky to use the 1 part due to the quantity we’ve been doing.

  • Colin Crabb

    Member
    May 19, 2020 at 8:36 am
    quote :

    One thing which has always puzzled me though, Slip ratings are required for the graphics, but the floors they are being applied to don’t – go figure

    Umm.. that not quite true in retail & commercial properties, HSE states:

    The floor in a workplace must be suitable for the type of work activity taking place on it.

    The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 (Regulation 12) require floors to be suitable, in good condition and free from obstructions. People should be able to move around safely.

    Where a floor is likely to be subject to frequent contamination, people should still be able to walk on it without the risk of slipping. See Assessing the slip resistance of flooring, which also describes the relevant British and European standards.

    Eg: if a customer slips over in a shop, and the flooring isn’t suitable (no slip rating) then the owners will be liable.

  • Daniel Evans

    Member
    May 19, 2020 at 12:07 pm

    I’m lost.

    So I understand go with the two part system but what brand / model number?

    I understand the floorshark is only a 1 part so avoid that.

    I’ve seen a few that have been out down and they vinyl looks terrible, Asda have some fitted recently that still look good and vibrant.

    On another note and sorry to hijack this thread, is anyone doing labels for covid-19?

    I’ve had an email passed to me form a client that a printer sent them about doing labels, I just don’t see what people will need the labels for in regards to covid 19?

  • Jamie Wood

    Member
    May 19, 2020 at 12:29 pm
    quote Daniel Evans:

    I’m lost.

    So I understand go with the two part system but what brand / model number?

    I understand the floorshark is only a 1 part so avoid that.

    I’ve seen a few that have been out down and they vinyl looks terrible, Asda have some fitted recently that still look good and vibrant.

    On another note and sorry to hijack this thread, is anyone doing labels for covid-19?

    I’ve had an email passed to me form a client that a printer sent them about doing labels, I just don’t see what people will need the labels for in regards to covid 19?

    Ask your usual supplier what they have in stock. You can use pretty much anything for the print media Removeable / Permanent / High Tack), depending on the requirement. Then use a minimum of R9 rated anti-slip floor lam.

    You may have to shop around to find a supplier with stock. So far we’ve used Metamark, Antalis, MacTac, Adapt / Amari.

    As for labels, we’ve done window stickers, wall stickers, and ones for sanitising stations, mainly saying things like keep your distance & wash / sanitise your hands. Also posters.

  • Daniel Evans

    Member
    May 19, 2020 at 12:55 pm

    Thanks Jamie.

    I called Metamark yesterday and they said they have nothing when I asked about floor graphics.

  • Graham Scanlan

    Member
    May 19, 2020 at 5:12 pm

    The only way to secure a delivery of floor products or clear plastic is to place your order in advance and wait for delivery. what’s causing the stock outs are demand and forward orders and as soon as the stock arrives it’s allocated already. For those products I’m afraid just in time is out of the question until this is all over

  • David Hammond

    Member
    May 20, 2020 at 3:05 pm

    One reason we’ve not really pushed the Covid-19 stuff, is the continuity of supply, I’m not chucking £££’s on stock, that might never get used.

    We’ve done some floor graphics, had to get a 1550 roll, slit to 1370, from Signmaster. I believe Innotech have more stock arrived today.

    We’ve been concentrating on our bread and butter work. Doing quite dandy at the moment considering the climate :thumbsup:

  • Jonathan Dray

    Member
    June 5, 2020 at 3:16 am

    For internal floors we’re using a high tac vinyl and an R10 laminate. We’ve also got some 1 part stuff for more temporary things as well.

    What’s like hens teeth at the minute is the external stuff, particularly R11, R12 laminate.

    The slip ratings also confuse me. I was under the impression that ideally you want R11 or higher for external stuff? But I’ve seen at least a couple of 1 part products being sold specifically for external use with R9 ratings. Surely this would leave the manufacturers open to potential claims?

    Equally I’ve read conflicting advice about R10 with some saying it’s fine to use outside and some not.

  • Colin Crabb

    Member
    June 5, 2020 at 10:11 am

    R9 – suitable for dry areas – wet slip risk HIGH
    R10 – areas kept mostly dry – wet slip risk Moderate
    R11 – Can be occasionally wet – wet slip risk Moderate
    R12 – Commercial Wet areas – wet slip risk LOW
    R13 – Very wet commercial areas – wet slip risk LOW

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