- MemberMarch 15, 2020 at 6:43 pm
Everyone what’s your thoughts on this. Do we have to close for a few weeks.. What if like me your self employed.. Where do we stand? Or is it all just madness?
- MemberMarch 15, 2020 at 7:29 pmquote Wayne Maxwell:
It doesn’t seem to be madness over in Italy. If you go for the more European news channels there are people dying, of various ages. A lot of very sick people. One guy, who looked no older than 30, had his sister die in her bed at home, no one would come and collect her until his post went out on social media. So I think it is a bit more serious than we are maybe being told. On the other hand sometimes news is click bait and some people like the attention on things that quite often turn out not to be true.
But I think when we are told to close up everyone else will be in the same boat. I have some money in reserve, but not enough to pay all the bills and last 3 or 4 months with no income. So myself and the boys wages will come first. Landlord will just need to wait, HMRC can suck a ****. Thankfully for most of our suppliers our accounts are clear or fairly clear which is good news for them.
I suppose the good news is if we are all off work for 2 months, 3 months whatever, there shouldn’t be a gas man around to disconnect your gas, or your electric. Broadband shouldn’t be cut off either as there will be no one in the office if bills weren’t paid. That’s my view on it anyway. Of course as things return to normal I will pay anything unpaid but am sure many will be in the same boat and that’s just that. It will be slow business wise coming back. Am already thinking on offering people "30 days" on things like flyers, banners etc.. when coming back to help get the ball rolling. Of course with customers I know fairly well.
I think it will go one of two ways now in the uk with all major countries over the channel shutting down, flights to and from America cancelled. It’s either going to slowly come to a end here in the uk because of this.. or we are about to be hit just as hard.
There is a self employed subsidy of up to 2 weeks I believe, but I bet it’s a pain in the arse to apply for and won’t be in your bank straight away.
That’s my take on it all. Not panic bought but we have stocked up on a few things incase the worse happens. I have kids in house and they need to eat ill or not.. and we will just follow the crowd
- MemberMarch 15, 2020 at 9:02 pm
I think, most will be able to do very little other than close their business doors, and sit-it-out.
I would rather be at work doing something, clearing jobs, getting designs out for confirmation, signs made ready to install for when normality returns. maybe even doing work around the unit, setting up promotional deals for the return and more. Anything would be better than sitting at home doing zilch. but unfortunately, it may not be possible dependant on government restrictions put in place.
I think this will last more than two weeks, most likely four+
There are too many conflicting reports of why this has come about, and thousands of uneducated reports from news sources trying for nothing other than to make money from the whole thing by scaring the crap out of everyone.
- MemberMarch 15, 2020 at 10:00 pm
Same as Rob. Catch up on some stuff and also I’ve been waiting for 3 years for a quiet period so I can epoxy my floors so wouldn’t be the end of the world for me.
- MemberMarch 15, 2020 at 10:21 pm
Sounds good guys. Get the existing jobs and designs cleared up. And a little bit of workshop tidying wouldn’t go a miss. No one banging on the door is a god send sometimes. Here’s hoping it won’t affect us all to much. Good luck 🙂
- MemberMarch 16, 2020 at 7:43 am
Get paid before the shutdown.
Then put your money in gold!
Then run for the hills
- MemberMarch 16, 2020 at 8:58 am
We’ve had serious discussions about this, and what our plans are.
Cashflow is going to be critical.
For the few customers who have credit terms with us, we’ve reduced their payment terms, we’ve completely removed others.
Rather than taking 50% deposits, we’re taking full payment.
We’ve customers holding off placing orders, and delaying installations, so we’re considering shutting down the unit and working from home. If we can group all orders together and just do 1-2 days a week, we’ll save a small fortune on fuel, heating & electricity.
- MemberMarch 16, 2020 at 9:21 am
It’s madness – the whole world has taken leave of its senses egged on by the WHO. Companies and even nations are being ruined and will go bankrupt by the entire over re-action and panic. The damage being caused to the economy is far worse than the virus.
I know it’s become a cliche – but the reality is, since January more people have died in the world as a result of the flu virus than the Corona virus. World leaders need to keep a perspective on things. Personally I think the UK is doing a better job of keeping a lid on things than most.
- MemberMarch 16, 2020 at 10:49 amquote Phill Fenton:
But having said that, it is still an outrageously contagious virus, with tons of tricks up its sleeve to connect with you.
But still its our reaction that is the real threat.
Perhaps, as Rob says, there is somebody orchestrating this panic for money.
I dont know about that, but there is certainly loads of people will benefit from this.
- MemberMarch 16, 2020 at 1:37 pmquote Phill Fenton:
Madness has two end. Northern Italy and South Switzerland (canton Ticino) where laughing and telling jokes about the virus a week ago. Local politicians where telling people to wash their hands. (Joke) 70000 Italian workers where crossing the border every day going back to infected towns. Within a week jokes transformed into apocalyptic nightmares. Town majors from Lugano and Locarno overruled the federal government and ordered mass closing of every public household. This is not known to happen. But this saved lives. There is not much know about this virus… Rest of Switzerland is drinking coffees and gathering in groups, jokes in Central Switzerland are around every morning. This is why Switzerland is No.2 in the world with corona cases. I will write you in a week to confirm if Central Switzerland’s jokes have become reality nightmares. Because honestly, nobody gives a sh*t at moment. People go in their lives as normal, but 100miles south we have a declared “state of emergency”
There you go. I’m not Daily Mail, CNN or a fake news site. I have friends who live Ticino and work in Ticino hospital. It is scary at the moment. And yet, we don’t know nothing about the virus.
- MemberMarch 16, 2020 at 8:47 pm
Well BoJo’s latest advice is to work from home where possible.
We can work from home, and nobody would know unless they turned up at the unit. Which I suppose is the point.
I think we’ll start working remotely. Only opening for production & installs.
Should help cashflow too, who knows how long it will go on for?
- MemberMarch 17, 2020 at 6:11 amquote David Hammond:
This is going on for months and you will see the effects for the coming years. Survival is the key but i think most businesses especially with loans will struggle.
We are a few weeks ahead of the uk action wise, schools are now closed. Business has literally stopped dead. Ive got 2 jobs which will get done this week and then……wait until the world starts again.
- MemberMarch 17, 2020 at 6:50 am
The very best of luck to us all, I think we’re going to need it. It seems to be getting biblical around the world & there are some big business people out there more worried about their profit margins than anything else. To begrudgingly quote the Mrs, ‘It’s not all about money, you know’
- MemberMarch 17, 2020 at 9:28 am
I just hope the UK government will support businesses, starting to become worried here as highly exposed due to our Holiday & Event type of clients cancelling work.
- MemberMarch 17, 2020 at 5:31 pm
So the latest figures are 71 coronavirus deaths in the UK amongst a total of 55,000 suspected cases
Is no one doing the maths? Thats a mortality rate of 0.13% i.e no worse than flu. So why the massive over-reaction? All that is happening is businesess are going bust because of a virus that’s not the killer virus it was made out to be?
Like I said – the world has gone mad. Hopefully sanity will be restored before the economy collapses and we all die of starvation…
- MemberMarch 17, 2020 at 6:45 pmquote Phill Fenton:
Am starting to agree Phil. On one hand it’s like they know something we don’t.
On the other hand if I get a common cold and have to self isolate for 14 days whilst everyone else is running.. we’re absolutely up the river with clients. There not going to be happy. Unless one of you guys want to come step in whilst I watch everything there is on Netflix?
- MemberMarch 17, 2020 at 7:03 pmquote Chris Wilson:
That’s what I don’t like… due to limited testing who can distinguish between a chest infection requiring antibiotics and coronavirus which can’t be treated. Are you wasting two weeks for a cold or a highly contagious disease?
We’ll learn a lot from this going forward but it’s been a bit of a shower so far.
- MemberMarch 17, 2020 at 7:09 pm
That’s now, here.
What about China that seems to have peaked, but they went into full shut down.
Is the UK more densely populated than other countries, or areas of countries affected?
Does climate affect it?
We cannot afford to shut up shop and sit at home. That said we’ve customers sitting tight, putting off installs.
Reassuring to hear we should receive a £10,000 grant, which will help.
- MemberMarch 17, 2020 at 7:46 pm
It will all come down to free hospital bed. This virus spreads much faster than fly.
Message from a specialist doctor at intensive care in small town:
“Many people above 80 will die. Many of us will be ok.
If you are 70 and you have corona virus, you have good chance to live, if I have free bed for you.
If you are 60 and you have a stroke, you have good chance to live, if I have free bed for you.
If you are 50 and you require prostate surgery, you have good chances to live, if I have free bed for you.
If you are 40 and you had a car accident, you have good chances to live, if I have free bed for you.
If you are 30 and you have complications with your pregnancy, you have good chances to live, if I have free bed for you.
If you are 20 and you had overdose, you have good chances to live, if I have free bed for you.
We have 7 bed with full respiratory ventilators. We can go up to 25 of them. To get more is not mater of money, we also need medical staff and bigger hospital.
If 50% of my town is infected, that is 75.000 people. If 5% need intensive care, thats 3750 people. And we have 25 beds.
Most probably I will not have free bed for you.
Lets avoid peak season. Self isolate. Stay at home.”
- MemberMarch 17, 2020 at 8:55 pmquote David Hammond:
Oh aye mr Hammond, where did you hear that? Could be handy.
I don’t think it’s down to climate as I think Spain and Italy are still fairly warm at this time of year. Not much colder than our spring I think, but am not very well traveled so could be talking rubbish.
We do work for MP’s and for the first time about to send some emails to put my view across. Surely there is some way of doing test kits of some sort. Even 5 days to get negative results is better than 14 days.
I totally agree pane, I don’t want to be the person that takes someone’s lives that I’ve passed by or bought some screws off or whatever as I put my business first. That would be a huge burden on me for the rest of my life.. but at the same time isolating for 14 days for what could be the common cold and watching everything I’ve spent 4 years building is a bit hard to swallow.
Fingers crossed no colds in my house hold.
- MemberMarch 17, 2020 at 9:08 pm
Central government will be distributing funds to local authorities, probably April. If you’re eligible for SMBRR you should get it. Increased from 3k to 10k.quote :
- MemberMarch 17, 2020 at 9:23 pmquote David Hammond:
Ah. Am in Scotland so I’ll need to wait for SNP to copy the policy…. *sigh*
- MemberMarch 18, 2020 at 11:58 am
Are these govenrment grants for registered businesses or a one man band self employed business can I still claim. I can’t find anything on line apart from
The government has said that those who are not eligible for statuatory sick pay, like self employed people, will be able to claim Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) from day one instead of day eight.
But this only works if you are actually sick or have been advised to self isolate. Many self-employed people are struggling because work is being cancelled during the outbreak.
This doesn’t really help as I am not ill but have no income and still the expenses of my shop and all that goes with it.
I am not really sure where I stand and if it is all worth it.
My van insrance has just gone from £550 to over £3000 due to a change in the way the insurance companies view claims.
If you have ever contacted your insurance company to say there has been an incident/accident i.e someone has hit you in a car park or you come back and there is damage but you never actually make a claim as it was so small or there was no evidence on CCTV this is now a black mark against you and will put your insurance up. Some insurers will now not insure you if you have more than 2 of these types of incidents, this includes windscreen replacement.
I have a lease vehicle so any damage has to be reported to them and my insurers wether there is a claim or not. This is what has forced my insurance up. I have returned to my van to have found a damaged wing mirror amd damaged bumper. Both were fixable by myself for the price of a night out but I had to report them to cover my backside when the vehicle is returned. I have now been penalised.
Now all this shutting down and not knowing where the next £ is coming from. Not sure what to do or who to speak to.
- MemberMarch 18, 2020 at 12:55 pm
Have a web search for Doctor Vernon Cooper – food for thought.
This mass panic proliferated by the media is going to ruin us all
More people have died this last year from common flu
I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I just get the feeling there is something else going on here
Plus where this started from in China, strange there is a large biological installation…
- MemberMarch 18, 2020 at 1:26 pmquote Phill Fenton:
Totally agree Phill,
180,000 infections worldwide, 5000 odd deaths. Overwhelming majority recover without issue or never get the symptoms. Obviously we have to be very careful regarding vulnerable people.
The reason for drastic recommendations is purely to slow it down to ease strain on health services that’s all. What the Politicians are not telling you is that 80% of people will probably get this at some point, knowingly or otherwise, but the best way to weaken the effect of this virus, is to have as many people catch it as possible, which is the only way to build immunity to it. That will be quicker than waiting for a vaccine.
When the Spanish flu killed 50 odd million people, that was a disaster – but it came around twice. This virus will do the same, probably next winter, so the more people who have recovered and got immunity to it, the less effect it will have. If everyone successfully dodged this the first time, you may not the second time.
While this is all happening, life has to go on, economies have to go on, businesses have to go on. That’s the reality. This won’t be a case of stay out the way for a few weeks and it’s all done and dusted, viruses don’t work like that, we need to build up our immunity to things like this.
If we all shut up shop indefinitely, there will be no jobs to come back to. I for one will carry on working until the authorities enforce it otherwise.
- MemberMarch 18, 2020 at 9:56 pm
Currently there has been around 220,000 confirmed cases worldwide with just under 9,000 deaths. That’s around 4% mortality.
- MemberMarch 18, 2020 at 10:12 pm
200,001 now. Am home. Woke up with a headache this morning. Thought it was my neck from sleeping funny. Now have a temp coming and going and a wee bit short of breath. Hopefully just the flu.
Had to set the boys up with everything I could and bail. Just have to try and manage things from home.
- MemberMarch 19, 2020 at 8:48 amquote Mike Thornley:
My thoughts entirely…
when I even suggest this to people I see their eyes being rolled while muttering…
"here we go… and I suppose the world is in on it too?"
I am not suggesting it’s not happening, but how it’s being played out, is terrorism in itself.
* The moon landing
* Invasion of Iraq, Saddam Hussian
to name only a few…
is just some of the crap we have all bought into on a global scale, and fed to us by the same people.
- MemberMarch 19, 2020 at 8:56 am
I’m always cynical about most stuff.
I’m not ruling out foul play, and a coverup.
- MemberMarch 19, 2020 at 9:12 am
And all the while people are panic buying toilet roll and groceries, the sensible and the wealthy are going to make a killing from this.
The FTSE 100 is at it’s lowest in a long time, lower than the recession, yet it barely makes the news. NOW is the time to be investing, something like a ETF, wait for the recovery, not sitting on 10years of bog roll.
Probably wiped £1000’s off pension funds, yet if you’re younger, it would be wise to start contributing more whilst unit prices are at an all time low!
*Investments may go up as well as down, and I’m not an IFA.
- MemberMarch 19, 2020 at 9:27 am
I think there is some realisation amongst political leaders that this may not be quite the killer virus it was made out to be. Boris Johnstone is talking about stepping up the efforts to detect people with antibodies which would show the true extent of the virus. And if it is far more extensive than currently thought – then this will allay fears of the mortality rate being as high as 4%. If more people already have this virus then we currently realise – then the mortality rate is much much lower- perhaps even as low as 0.1% which puts the virus on an entirely different footing and the current over zealous restrictions will be lifted. We’ll know in a month or so if the death rate doesn’t rise to the extent currently predicted. China is already returning to normality, having already realised that this is indeed the case.
Everyone should watch this and draw their own conclusions. Not sure I agree with his conspiracy theories towards the end – but the first 7 minutes or so make perfect sense to me.
$this->BBvideo_pass(‘$8’, ‘$4’, ‘$7’)
- MemberMarch 19, 2020 at 3:27 pm
- MemberMarch 20, 2020 at 9:23 am
Okay I am trying to get my head around these business grants and who can claim them.
My situation is I am a Sole trader, so self employed but I have a shop that I rent and also have lease agreements and loans in my name for the business. I am not VAT registered and only have a bank account for the business but in my name not the business name. This was something to be done this year along with maybe going LTD due to now having the shop and my business building up.
All I can find is that the self employed can claim ESA, but I am not sick just have a very low income now due to this situation.
Is anyone else in the same situation?
- MemberMarch 20, 2020 at 9:33 am
I’m the same as you Iain. My business trades as a partnership not a limited company. There was a hint yesterday of plans to be unveiled today to help employees via the PAYE system. So where does that leave partnerships and sole traders? Hopefully the measures being proposed will consider all situations and not just employees of companies
- MemberMarch 20, 2020 at 9:56 am
I thought the grant related to businesses eligible for small business rate relief.
Which we’ll get, although i’ll be sat at home when they write to me with how to claim :rollseyes:
- MemberMarch 20, 2020 at 10:10 am
Ive had an email from my council which seems to say I should be eligble for a 10K grant. I doubt very much this is going to be a straight forward thing where they just drop it into my bank account. No doubt there will be hours of form filling followed by here £250. I have no work on for next week, what do I do with staff? send them home on full pay? Cant do that for very long, reduce hours? not sure I can legally or make them take holiday they have accrued again not sure I can legally. No one seems to know anything its very stressful at the moment.
- MemberMarch 20, 2020 at 10:17 am
This says we do not need to apply and that it is a grant so I am assuming they will require some bank details and pop the money in.
- MemberMarch 20, 2020 at 10:34 am
Trouble is that there not just going to give cash out willy nilly.
We are a limited company and I think we can no apply for a grant of up to 10k but we have to pay it back, so right now I would rather not.
With PAYE you can put your payment on hold for 3 months, which to them is great. But for the £600 it saves me, it’s not going to get me out of a hole if I need it. Barely even covers half the rent for one month.
Just typical governments unfortunately. Always come out with amazing headlines with the we’re going to put 300 million into small business blah blah blah. But what it actually means is a small discount on something your going to have to pay eventually.
That’s my feelings on it anyway.
My current plan of action is to badger all accounts to pay as soon as possible.
Pay the boys.
Pay my landlord.
Avoid the vat bill if I feel I need to.
Clamp down on all unnecessary purchases
Call my landlord if things get bad and explain I will get him his money one day. Please bear with me.
We do a lot of garments, so our extra hand in that department is in trouble. Most of it is sports clubs, dance schools and events. If it gets to a tipping point I will offer him 2 days a week until I can get things going again and not take any holidays off him. Hopefully that will reduce cost a little that I don’t have to tell him it’s game over completely and he will under stand.
Once things settle down I think I will offer local restaurants/bars/clubs a 30 day term to pay bills on promotion spreaders, such as banners, flyers, window graphics etc.. small cost lower risk items with a ok mark up to get things going.
And am not sure what else I can do than that. If we are ordered to shut down completely we are insured.. supposedly anyway. I don’t know if I would want to claim it. If we get backed into a corner then I will have to.
- MemberMarch 20, 2020 at 10:41 amquote Chris Wilson:
Where does it say we need to pay it back? I cannot find that on the Gov site that I took the photo above from.
- MemberMarch 20, 2020 at 11:04 amquote Iain George:
I’m just going on the word grant. And what customers have said to me. We get offered grants for training and stuff up here, even Market re-search, but you have to pay them back. Even at a low interest rate. I’ve not re-searches it so maybe am wrong. A 10k bonus would be fantastic. But seems to good to be true to me.
I think grants are also a bit safer than loans. If you couldn’t pay it they wouldn’t come and take you car sort of thing.. but again am not an expert in this so I could be wrong. But I think the low interest rate and that is the difference to a loan.
- MemberMarch 20, 2020 at 11:12 am
- MemberMarch 20, 2020 at 11:23 am
I always thought
GRANTS you don’t pay back
LOANS you do pay back
- MemberMarch 20, 2020 at 11:35 am
I could be completely wrong.
Am just going off business gateway and a 5k grant we tried to get off them 10 + years ago for a different business. We had to pay it back but over 5 years or something and it was very low amount. We didn’t get it anyway.
- MemberMarch 20, 2020 at 11:40 am
- MemberMarch 20, 2020 at 11:53 am
Think its a case of being contacted rather than applying.
Yes according to this your local council will contact you.
- quote Chris Wilson:
No worries Chris, we are all trying to make sense of what we can and can’t do.
- MemberMarch 20, 2020 at 2:41 pmquote Jean Oakley:
A little factual information that may help clarify some of your points above;
This is from my employment lawyer but always check with a professional yourself before acting.
Redundacy (if over 2 years employed). If under, nothing owed.
Under 22 years of age.
0.5 weeks pay for every year of employment
+ notice pay
+ accrued holiday
Over 22 years of age and under 45.
1 weeks pay for every year of employment
+ notice pay
+ accrued holiday
1.5 weeks pay for every year of employment
+ notice pay
+ accrued holiday
Alternative contracts can be offered covering pay, hours, role or all of the above. You may (if challenged) need to provide evidence that you financial circumstances support this decision but based on the current unprecedented times that is unlikely if due diligence is demonstrated. Offering this contract means that if declined, redundancy is not required by employer to pay.
Sometimes employees have to take the hit for the short term along with the employer to increase the possibility of the survival of the business and doing so in this climate may mean that we can all have staff on the other side when it upturns (which it will).
This includes offering SSP if business does not have funds available to support employment and/or unpaid leave.
Hope this helps.
- MemberMarch 21, 2020 at 10:34 am
So – if you trade as a limited company the government will pay 80% of your salary up to a maximum of £30K. But if you trade as a sole trader or partnership you’ll have to apply for universal credit of £94 a week.
- MemberMarch 21, 2020 at 10:56 amquote Phill Fenton:
Exactly a joke.
I can get the 10k as a have SBRR and also apply for the interim loan, I think, which is now 12 months interest free but am not sure on the application and what you actually need to say to qualify.
- MemberMarch 21, 2020 at 11:06 am
I have to say that I feel for those who are sole traders, LLP and LTD should in theory be ok but, I suspect, many do as I do… Although I am an employee of my company, I pay myself minimum wage as a salary, then take dividends as required to actually live. if I get paid 80% of my minimum it’s not great, though hopefully with the SBRR (up to) £10k offering, we should be able to get through, keep everyone paid and survive this!
Personally we’re in a similar situation with our home, wife was laid off this week – useless employer didn’t even wait to see what help was offered. Nursery has been closed, likely until September if their info is correct so wife can’t go back to any work.. We also rent from a private landlord, not in a cheap rural location either. I doubt they have mortgages and they’re pretty approachable, just hope they understand if we don’t (can’t) pay rent for a few months.
This may be serious healthwise, and despite the usual conspiracy theories, I believe it is serious, but it’s going to have a massive effect on everyone for probably years to come. Those of us who are able to come out on the other side with some kind of business left, will till have a struggle as our customers will be in a similar boat. We may not hit full recession but borrowing will massively rise, along with taxes I suspect.
Should we close, I’ve made sure I have a good stock of shells – gotta protect the venison freezer in the outhouse, as well as dusted off the fly & sea fishing gear… will be a case of gamekeeper turned poacher if need be 😆 😆
- MemberMarch 21, 2020 at 11:35 am
I think you’re right Hugh. It’s the norm for company directors of small ltd companies to pay themselves the minium and top it up with dividends due to the tax system. This means that many directors will be earning less than their employees with no dividends to top up their earnings. I agree the system is flawed, but under the circumstances it’s the best we can hope for to preserve jobs and to rescue the economy, otherwise once all this is over there will be no economy left.
One thing’s for certain – none of us will starve. And in comparison to the sort of hardships others have endured in the past this is nothing. We should all be gratefull.
- MemberMarch 21, 2020 at 11:39 amquote Phill Fenton:
The general public seem to think all company directors are rolling in cash though, and will happily pay off their own employees and keep their £3bazillion per month wages….
- MemberMarch 21, 2020 at 12:23 pm
Just put your pay through as a wage for the next month or two.. maybe 3 who knows. And once it settles down reduce your wage drastically and just take a dividend (higher than normal) to balance… I’ve not done the maths but for a month or two surely that’s the best way to go about it
- MemberMarch 21, 2020 at 1:35 pmquote Phill Fenton:
Agreed, it could be far far worse when you look at what goes on around the world.
Chris, I had considered upping my ‘salary’ but I don’t know how they check / means test it and don’t want to be seen to be manipulating the system / get in trouble of changing my salary to reflect my real income of at least £350 a week.
The tax around dividends is not really very beneficial these days, I think we’ll get £2k allowance on this year each, so £4k tax free on divvies for us two shareholders – hardly Dragons Den territory! The real reason I keep it low is because our income fluctuates, like most small sign companies, if I have a pants week / month / few months it means I don’t take more than the business may have, my caution may turn out to cost me!
- MemberMarch 21, 2020 at 1:42 pmquote Hugh Potter:
My understanding is you can chop and change as much as you like. A dividend must be equal between partners and come out of profit and is only 7% after the 2k per person.
At the end of each year your accountant can switch between the two to lower your amount required in tax if they feel it would give a good saving or if your actually no longer operating in profit, which is where you are likely to get into trouble.
- MemberMarch 21, 2020 at 6:05 pmquote Chris Wilson:
Unless I am misunderstanding the offer to support wages from the government, I think we are all missing something here?
The offer is to assign staff (including ourselves being one) as on ‘furlough’. This means that they cannot work for the benefit of the business by its very definition and therefore not help add revenue nor help support the business in the meantime?
Options as I see them.
* Pay staff full salary but receive 80% support as a grant but they cannot work for the company and therefore generate any income. Still costs the business 20% with no chance of generating a return.
* Reduce hours and therefore pay. May become cost neutral but severely effects their income
* Lay them off which means no income for company nor income for them. Also means no cost to company.
Unless the government are mis using their terminology by using ‘furlough’ I am struggling to find an easy upside for company owners apart from helping their staff retain an income for the short term?
I certainly hope it is simpler than that. 🙁
- MemberMarch 21, 2020 at 8:09 pmquote Ryan Fairweather:
I see what you mean Ryan. Certain businesses are not being affected by the current crisis – e.g supermarkets who are actually making bigger profits due to all the panic buying. And it would be madness if their profits were further enhanced by a government subsidy paying 80% of their wage bill?
So It’s only businesses that cease trading (Pubs, restuarants etc.) that will received this funding? Which means a big dilema for the many businesses that become borderline? In many cases, it may make more sense for them to cease trading in order that their staff get paid, rather than risk not making enough profit to cover the wage bill. Difficult one and a dilema for many I’m sure. And in some instances, the offer to pay 80% of the wage bill by the government may be counter productive by encouraging some companies to cease trading untilk all this is over
- MemberMarch 21, 2020 at 8:16 pm
Who I really feel for is those poor buggers who were "self employed" but in reality were actually employees.
Working for the same ‘customer’ day in, day out, not having to find their own work, getting the perks of ’employment’ without the protection. The company has saved on NI, pensions, and now the self employed are being shafted.
- MemberMarch 22, 2020 at 2:17 pmquote Phill Fenton:
Yea I think it was announced on Friday Phil. Saw it on the website anyway. Just got to wait for the local council now. Which doesn’t fill me with much confidence haha.
Last time I had dealings with the rates department was when we have a cross over of one month for moving. Which was June. I got a bill for April, May and June. Finally got the point across that we did need to pay for May. That was fine. Kept getting interrupted every time I spoke. Eventually had to point out how the months go starting from January. Alas we got there and April was no more haha. 10 minutes of my life I will never get back though.
- MemberMarch 23, 2020 at 2:52 pm
I don’t know about you guys but this is giving me a headache.
Half of us are soldering on. Some have come to a stop (which is right thing in my eyes)
Spoke to customers that we have installs for in the next week and bit this morning on the phone. Apart from one the rest of them are still classing us as an "essential service". In fact certain phones calls got quite hot under the collar this morning.
And now quite rightly the snp have said that all non essential businesses in Scotland must close or be forced to close.
Has anyone had any useful letters or break throughs with all that has been promised?
- MemberMarch 23, 2020 at 3:34 pm
news update from my accountants, lists everything available, I pay a monthly subscription and they are sorting everything for us.
Update for our clients on the Covid 19 Emergency measures
These are unprecedented times and amidst the uncertainty we are all looking for advice and help to make informative decisions. We want to support you as much as possible and will be regularly updating the information on our website as the situation continues to evolve.
The government has already announced a number of measures to support businesses through the economic disruption caused by COVID 19 including:.
· a statutory sick pay relief package for SMEs
· a 12-month business rates holiday for all retail, hospitality and leisure businesses in England
· small business grant funding of £10,000 for all businesses in receipt of small business rate relief or rural rate relief
· grant funding of £25,000 for retail, hospitality and leisure businesses with property with a rateable value between £15,000 and £51,000
· the Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan Scheme offering loans of up to £5 million for SMEs through the British Business Bank
· a new lending facility from the Bank of England to help support liquidity among larger firms, helping them bridge coronavirus disruption to their cash flows through loans
· the HMRC Time To Pay Scheme
We understand that cash flow will be a major concern to many businesses over the coming weeks and it’s important to consider steps that may be taken now to ease this.
Deferring HMRC tax liabilities
Instant cash flow benefit can be obtained by deferring part or all of your PAYE, National Insurance, VAT or corporation tax payments, so these amounts don’t leave your bank account when you most need it. Contact the HMRC Time to Pay coronavirus helpline on 0800 0159 559 to discuss your specific circumstances.
Which payments should you stop?
This will be a matter for each individual business, but we suggest that you examine your scheduled payments and decide what you can regard as non-essential. Be careful when considering cancelling payments such as Life Assurance, premises and motor insurance, we would recommend that you check with your broker before doing so.
Paying your suppliers
Ideally, it would be best if all SME’s could continue to pay each other for goods and services received but this will not be possible for everyone so cash flow management will vary. It is important to note that it is unlikely you will get paid if everyone stops payments together and banks are already offering support to assist with this.
- MemberMarch 23, 2020 at 3:54 pm
Also just heard from our accountant.
We are to pay ourselves through a wage not a dividend.
There will be a new tab on Payroll softwares by the end of the week for the 80% re-funded. So it will need to be paid first.
- MemberMarch 23, 2020 at 7:18 pm
Swiss corona cases still rising. We are now the highest in the world for cases per 1m citizens. Ticino canton in South Switzerland still on its knees. UK corona situation is still behind 2-3 weeks. This is not a joke. Self isolation / social distancing is a must, so that the NHS has more time and less stress to deal with cases.
Write to you local MP regarding your financial situation not being covered in current laws. It is difficult time and rules and laws are created as they go. Stay safe and positive.
- MemberMarch 23, 2020 at 9:27 pm
So BoJo’s statement made it pretty clear… yet everyone seems to think they are essential, and work is more important than the health of others. :bangshead:
- MemberMarch 23, 2020 at 9:32 pmquote David Hammond:
Totally agree David. I for one will making some announcements this week and look after the welfare of my staff and others by hibernating the company for a few weeks.
- MemberMarch 23, 2020 at 9:47 pm
Slightly confused because the government document doesn’t actually seem to clarify if you can operate or not, unless you’re a retail high street shop, all it really says on the last exception is this..
‘Travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home’
It doesn’t say you have to be an essential service or business, so that would seem to suggest that if you don’t fall under the named business types, you can still travel to work and back?
I have to go in tomorrow regardless because even if we’re not supposed to work, things have to be turned off, you can’t just not turn up one day, for three weeks!
- MemberMarch 23, 2020 at 10:18 pm
Fellow sign men. Follow this advice. Go in tomorrow and shut everything down. Family and health over work and money. Be safe all.
- MemberMarch 23, 2020 at 10:27 pmquote Wayne Maxwell:
- MemberMarch 23, 2020 at 10:40 pm
The problem is our printers need to be regularly run to prevent the heads from drying out. Don’t forget to either flush your printer out (if using solvent ink) or make provision to run it twice a week to avoid damaging it. Common sense must prevail, and a trip into work to carry out essential maintenance is not an issue.
- MemberMarch 24, 2020 at 6:26 amquote :
Fitting Bob’s van signs isn’t absolutely necessary.
Checking on your printer & premises, sure, I need to check the mail as they will write to us about this grant :awkward:
To put it in perspective they’ve suspended weddings, and some crematoriums have limited the number of mourners.
- MemberMarch 24, 2020 at 7:02 am
I will be going in my shop. I work alone so driving from home to shop is no issue. Shop locked and isolated inside. I also am providing lots of Coronavirus signage for local stores that are open along with Doctors surgeries. Unable to print from home.
- MemberMarch 24, 2020 at 8:42 amquote Iain George:
Me too.. I’ve come in today and it appears that most of the trades are still working. The government document doesn’t really cover the trades, it’s pointing mainly at shops and public gatherings, and obviously lightening the volume on public transport, so I’m going to carry on working but not allow any public on to the premises – not that there were any now anyway.
- MemberMarch 24, 2020 at 10:09 am
First batch done for my local GP Surgery.
- MemberMarch 24, 2020 at 10:12 am
I’ve come in today to tie up all loose ends clean the printer and shut things down.
Just been to the shops to get food and I don’t fancy doing that again in a hurry. Bought enough to last a while. The shops seem well stocked mostly so one big shop should do people.
Everyone on the trading estate seems to be taking the same view, I think common sense is prevailing.
My plan is to make up lost time and work over Christmas, assuming we are on top of this situation by then.
- MemberMarch 24, 2020 at 10:45 am
At great cost to us,we have decided to close for the next 3 weeks. It’s not like we are being handed a gun and asked to risk our lives to save others. Financially we are going to take a hit, but if it helps saves lives, I am more than prepared to do what I can
- MemberMarch 24, 2020 at 1:16 pm
It’s now time to become part of the solution and not the issue.
We are now all fully responsible to whether this virus packs it’s bags sooner than later.
It’s been a hard decision to temporary close our business, but it’s part of owning a business that operates within a community and it’s those communities that now need protection more than ever.
It’s upsetting when I see posts on Facebook with business that have been asked to close and not reopen try and find loop holes and sell pints of lager for take away, I just don’t think they have understood what they have been asked to do or they just do not care about our community.
- MemberMarch 25, 2020 at 2:52 pmquote Chris Wilson:
I think they’re calculating it on last years PAYE earnings to stop people banging their wages up now for exactly this reason.
But regarding the 80% salary scheme, you have to designate employees as furloughed, which according to my accountant we cannot do for myself and the other directors, even though we’re looking at having zero work as it’s all dried up. I think those of us who are directors are basically left with zero help.
Has anyone had a look at this loan interruption scheme yet? It doesn’t seem fit for purpose at all. No online application facility, 5 hour holds on calls to banks, 11%+ interest rates, existing customers only, some offering overdrafts instead and requiring capital guarantees. The scheme was supposed to encourage unsecured lending up to £250k yet no lender seems to be doing this at all.
It looks all well and good on a press release and on the 10′ o’clock news boasting a £330bn stimulus package of "assistance" but it looks like it’s basically just lining the pockets of the banks with little to no risk to them as the government are guaranteeing the lender not the borrower, it’s a joke.
Who is going to want to take on a big loan on those terms, with the uncertainty that you might not have any work to generate any income to pay it back even if you survive?
I’ve got some funds in the business that’ll see us through a few weeks, but if we don’t get invoices paid next week from some of our bigger customers I’m not liking our future prospects.
- MemberMarch 25, 2020 at 3:05 pmquote Wayne Fothergill:
My accountant disagrees with yours.
We were told to put it through as a wage for both directors and not to exceed 17k this year (I don’t know why that’s an unusual number) and we would be fine. They’ve made the odd mistake before but it’s a big firm we use.
I’ll be doing pay roll next Tuesday so we’ll find out. But am going to put I through and if I get told off I get told off. I think they will have bigger problems really than me wanting a couple of quid.
Just going to the Unit to find our rates number and then trying this online application. There making it sound lovely. Will take 10 days for the funds to go into our bank and the wording has changed to 10k grant. But we will see. Am still very… we’ll it’s hard to believe there will be actual help. There is always a twist somewhere. Like your saying with the low interest loans.
- MemberMarch 25, 2020 at 6:11 pm
Wayne this sounds promising :smiles:
- MemberMarch 25, 2020 at 6:19 pm
- MemberMarch 25, 2020 at 6:19 pm
HMRC Customer Service Twitter account have answered other directors saying the same thing.
They have stipulated there that you cannot do any work for the company whilst furloughed, so I don’t know how much it helps any of you who are the sole director of your companies, not that I can imagine they’ll be doing much in the way of policing it so I guess it’s up to you individually.
Looks like they are going to be revealing plans for the self employed at tomorrows press conference, so see if we get anything then or if it’s just going to focus on sole traders.
- MemberMarch 27, 2020 at 4:53 pm
Well the self employed help announced last night was absolutely no help to us / small company owners / directors.quote Wayne Fothergill:
How do you know this? Have you tried to apply?
- MemberMarch 27, 2020 at 5:30 pm
I haven’t tried to apply yet, we’re ok for a short term so will how it plays out.
I’ve been following the situation on twitter closely since it launched and a lot of news outlets ran stories about the issues with the scheme on Wednesday.
RBS have said they are not asking for guarantees now but they are barely offering anyone CBILS terms. All the banks are trying to put people on their existing commercial lending loans which do not have the benefit of 12 months interest free and zero fees.
- MemberMarch 28, 2020 at 12:50 am
We’ve been almost exclusively making safety/awareness items for the last week.
Closed doors on one of the paper print businesses and cut back to two at the sign shop. BIG Do not enter signs on our doors. Keeps MOST people away and I’m not shy on rejecting / ejecting the hard of understanding…including bollocking my vinyl monkey who laid and fitted thd signs then sends a customer upstairs for an enquiry and letting his mate (who does care in multiple homes) use the toilet within 15 minutes of putting them up!
I was not impressed…
Not doing any fittings and more and pleading poverty when it’s time to pay up. Had a couple of cancelled orders.
In next week if a big quote for social distancing floor graphics gets accepted. Failing that, going to operate ad-hoc purely for emergency work as we heavily service takeaways, taxis and convenience stores.
Failing that gonna get bored, really bored.
- MemberMarch 30, 2020 at 12:31 pmquote Chris Wilson:
Anyone else have an opinion on this?
- MemberMarch 30, 2020 at 12:34 pmquote Jonathan Dray:
We’re still being told to put it through and we get the 80% back at the end of April. Still not clear as to how you get it back. But that’s what we have been told to do.
- MemberMarch 30, 2020 at 8:06 pm
I’m sure you have all already checked with your brokers to discover that your business insurance does not cover you in this instance…
…but if the place was to suddenly catch fire…. :puppyeyes:
Kidding, Kidding, – I WAS KIDDING!! :awkward:
- MemberMarch 31, 2020 at 5:13 am
UPDATE on what you boys could be looking forward to. Lockdown over here for a month has now been extended to 2 months :shocked:
Im starting to go crazy already :yikes:
- MemberMarch 31, 2020 at 11:25 pmquote Phill Fenton:
I see from a fb group that a place in Manchester burned down the other day, they have a go fund me account begging for £10k.
I didn’t hold my tongue I’m afraid. they’ll be illegible for the rates grant if they’re properly registered, they should have insurance to cover this eventuality, in which case take the money and run you lucky bar stewards, if not, I have no sympathy. And finally, we’re all in the poo, don’t be asking for cash from those who are in the same boat… i was f’ing furious!!
- MemberApril 1, 2020 at 8:21 am
Standing ovation for Hugh :claps: :claps: :claps: :claps: :claps: :praiseyou:
I bit my tongue on that. Poor sod’s business has burnt to the ground, and last thing they needed was me wading in my usual manner with zero sympathy adding fuel to the fire (no pun intended) that’s what insurance is for!
The group in question has gone very quiet, and I’ve resisted the urge to stir the hornets nest, and post my thoughts.
The chickens are coming home to roost now. The argumentative sods who didn’t like the advice they were given are now being very quiet. The ones who were charging £15 an hour, and aggressively defended it when advised it’s not viable.
There was a post asking "how do I pay my full time self employed teams" :bangshead: chances are they weren’t self employed, and should have been classed as an employee and the rights afforded to them. I’m sure there’s many more in the same boat, who were being paid as self employed, when in the eyes of HMRC weren’t (stand by the floodgates of employment claims opening after this!)
I’ve always been of the opinion that there are two types of businesses. Ones that are run as business, and those who just simply earn a wage.
Most people I’ve spoken to are quite calm about it, can struggle through and ride out the next few weeks until the grants arrive.
- MemberApril 2, 2020 at 8:53 am
It would certainly disguise the massive world financial crash that’s looming, the virus is the villain, not the bankers & politicians
- MemberApril 2, 2020 at 12:03 pmquote Phill Fenton:
If you read through the classifications it makes sense. Its mostly because a high consequence disease can only be treated at specialist centres. Also, its not that high consequence compared to ebola etc.
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