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  • David Stevenson

    Member
    November 3, 2021 at 9:09 pm

    Hi, we’re looking to bond some SkyBond sheets to a reasonable smooth concrete wall. Initially we’d thought of using VHB and a few screws but I’m concerned it may be raining on the day of fitting so I can’t see VHB sticking if the walls are wet. Has anyone used OB1 or CT1 adhesive on SkyBond? I know both products can be used in the wet but I remember someone saying (Robert Lambie possibly) that certain adhesives can cause a staining on the visible side after fixing. If any one can offer any advice or an alternative solution I’m all ears.

    Thanks, David

  • Robert Lambie

    Administrator
    November 3, 2021 at 11:52 pm

    Hi David

    What size are the Skybond panels?
    What type of signs are they, general information, company branding, health & safety etc.?
    Going by what you are considering using, are you trying to secure using minimal screw fixings or are you just trying to make sure they are not ripped down or blown off?

    • David Stevenson

      Member
      November 4, 2021 at 10:15 am

      Hi Robert, This isn’t the actual shop front but the same idea. It would be to fit folded sheets of SkyBond to the Cream areas around the window. The panels aren’t any wider than approx 600mm. Trying to hide the fixings best we can but will still have a few on show with colour coded screw caps. Thanks

  • Graham Scanlan

    Member
    November 4, 2021 at 9:43 am

    Hi David,

    When looking at fixing acm you need to keep in mind thermal expansion. You need to allow the sheet to expand and contract. There are industrial fixing systems that put down a very thick strip of adhesive and this allows movement. I’ve seen many a delaminated panel due wrong fixings

    • David Stevenson

      Member
      November 4, 2021 at 10:16 am

      Yeah there’s always that risk. Will have screws too but trying to reduce the number needed.

  • Robert Lambie

    Administrator
    November 5, 2021 at 12:25 am

    Hi David

    Sorry if I am getting my wires crossed here and maybe I am miss-reading what you are wanting to do.

    If you are installing a folded pan composite sign onto a similar style shopfront. I would not use adhesive at all mate.

    Your primary fixing points are the screws you use to attach the frame for the pan-sign to be fitted to.
    For this, I would recommend Aluminium angle and 75mm concrete screws. Similar to the illustration I have attached.

    Once the angle is fixed in place using the concrete screws, simply slide the pan sign over the trim.
    You then use rivets or screws along the top, bottom and side if required.

    Using the likes of concrete screws will ensure a solid fixing and you will not need as many as you would if you were using something like screws and rawl plugs.

    If you haven’t used a concrete screw before.
    Make sure you have the properly sized masonry bit for drilling the hole.
    Make sure you also have the proper torq bit or tech screw head for your drills bit.
    Drill a neat hole, not a loose or a slack one. then just screw the screw in at a slow steady pace. the screw will cut its own threads into the concrete.
    Test using one on your workshop wall or similar. leave a bit of the screw head proud from the surface and try using a claw hammer to yank it out. there is no chance if done correctly!

    With this in mind, you are fixing a lightweight aluminium angle frame to the wall.
    your then riveting or screwing a lightweight, soft aluminium composite box to the frame.
    I can guarantee you the pan sign will be torn and destroyed, and the aluminium buckled or snapped, before one of those screw fixings into the concrete will budge.

    if drilling into sandstone walls, make sure the concrete screws have wider threads because sandstone is softer and can crumble or thread if done wrong. a quick test before starting is always recommended.

    As for adhesives used on the composite.

    Some two-part adhesives really heat up when they are curing. so when you put a blob of adhesive on the rear of the composite. you can actually see at “certain angles and lighting” dimples or uneven areas on the face of the sign, and looks bad!
    So it is always better to test your choice of adhesive with a scrap bit of composite and see if anything happens.

    However, some composite sheet materials being sold are not of the best quality.
    This normally means the aluminium skin on either side of the polyethylene core is very thin.
    At times even the core is poor quality…
    As a result, sometimes using adhesives that are not necessarily as “hot” as some, can still create adverse effects on the face, when applied to the rear. again, doing some tests on scrap materials you use is advised. all i am talking about is putting a blob and a line of adhesive on the rear of an offcut, leaving it to cure and then take it out into the sun and walk back from it and view at different angles. try the same when the sky is cloudy. as the lighting great effects when it can and can’t be seen.

    • David Stevenson

      Member
      November 8, 2021 at 10:46 pm

      Thanks for such an in-depth reply Robert. We’re actually doing what Kevin mentioned and cladding the front of the building although I did describe that pretty badly lol. You have however gave me quite an insight into fitting folded pans which is something we’d like to get into more since getting our cnc. Anytime I’d fitted one before I’d always used wooden batons and frame fixers. The aluminium angle and concrete screws seem a much more professional and durable fitting method. I found with the frame fixers if you were unlucky they’d go into the cavity and not expand. I was also concerned that over time the timber would rot and cause problems especially after reading about the William Hill incident. Going to order some bit up and see how we get on. Thanks again 🙂

  • Kevin Mahoney

    Member
    November 5, 2021 at 7:35 am

    I’m assuming you’re trying to achieve a cladded look on this, I’m doing a similar thing today on a smaller scale over a very rough timber framework. I wouldn’t use any adhesive as Rob says but rather treat them as a horizontal tray with deeper returns & notch out the columns & fix to the window returns, then repeat with vertical trays to do the uprights & just have a small tight seam where they meet the horizontal tray. Maybe a faff but would look better in my opinion mate

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