Your plans for 2025 & beyond…

[Jeff]

I think everyone is feeling the pinch one way or another.
rent, power, heating, materials, it is all up!

i have read some posts on this site about just taking what you can get. and that is what i have been doing for some time now. if i am asked for anything and i know i can do it, i give a price and rough time and if they take it, then great. if not. at least i tried. 🙂

2025 – i will run the same way until this joke of a government stops playing with our lives.

[David Hammond]

Annoyingly I moved away from taking anything and everything on, as it became difficult to manage when busy, I couldn’t be great at everything. Looking at some of the smaller jobs it’s really not worth me doing.

Got an enquiry for two small posters yesterday, the time to load the printer, print it, cut it out just not worth doing, unless I’m at it all day everyday.

[Mark Johnston]

its the same everywhere buddy.
everyone is charging a fortune, except us. but dare we try and do the same?

we do a bit of everything, take it when it comes.

[David Hammond]

Unfortunately I don’t think people are charging a fortune, I think there’s a multitude of reasons prices have increased… and I’m expecting more come next year when the NI contributions increase.

I think years of the signage industry being undervalued, it now really starting to bite… had a customer complaining that another company had quoted £600 installation… which isn’t a lot for two fitters, access equipment etc.

[Mark Johnston]

that is what i mean. everyones costs are increasing so they charge more and it is accepted. but it is a different story when we have to increase our prices.

[David Hammond]

Yep the sign industry has been selling itself short for years.

Look at what trades people charge for their labour, how much anything off the shelf in a shop is, yet you can buy a custom designed & printed sign cheaper than a haircut at the local Turkish barber🤣

[David Rogers]

Plan to charge more, bill sooner.
Aside from the utter garbage and chancers I turn away I’ve been getting too many of my jobs – which tells me I’m either giving a service beyond belief…or I’m not charging enough to keep what I’ve got and still pick the cream.
Leads to far too many jobs on the books at the mercy of not being completed in a timely manner or letting them fall by the wayside. I do the ‘chase the money’…you pay better – you get better service to help weed them out….and vow THIS YEAR to send in my invoices within a couple of weeks – still got a few ‘ah. mate. i’ll send it later’ from 9 months ago.

2022,23,24 has all been about building the business from what I bought to be sustainable. Invested (basically my wages) back in all new equipment, reliable van, tools galore, hold good stock of media, inks and a leave couple of quid in the bank – 2025, hope to reap some of that back.

[David Hammond]

My prices certainly need to go up, I’ve altered the way I price jobs. I would do a job look at the invoice and feel that it wasn’t worth the time and effort.

I’ve changed how I price jobs and still seem to be getting the better work, the cheaper customers can go elsewhere.

[Gary Forbes]

i try and quote for as much as i can. even if it is a guessed price, i will go in high!
small jobs can be a pain but they add up and help pay the bills.
it is different if the job is small and they want it yesterday. you can either decline due to being too busy or charge more for rushing it for them.

[David Wilde]

Ironic that below this thread is an advert for First display advertising banners for £7 psm.

[RobertLambie]

🤣🤣

Thankfully… that’s a Trade Printer, David.

Joking aside, the biggest problem signmakers had, back when vinyl printers first became available, was they had no concept of “how to price print jobs”.
The majority would look at the prices trade printers would offer to print a square metre within “sign magazines”, then the sign maker would try and beat the “trade prices”, and sell to their customers at that rate. Bonkers!
Fast forward to today, and this has continued for pretty much everything, van graphics and wraps, included.

[Richard Wills]

Any knowledge of their production quality – prices are making me question my plans for an 80600

[RobertLambie]

Hi Richard

So far, the only products I can vouch for are these, which I have had:
* Flat Cut Composite
* Flat Cut Foamex
* Printed Correx
* Wallpaper
* Banner

For all of the above, we can Print or Router Cut ourselves, in-house.
However, due to our workload one time, I passed a large CNC Router Job to First Display to help make a deadline and I was surprised how much pressure it took off me. The job was spot-on, with no issues at all.

Around a month later, I had a similar situation with a large print job. I was under pressure and would mean working over a weekend. My staff was not happy about that. So I called them to see if they could help. The job arrived without any issues and the print quality was great.

I have continued using them as and when required.

[Richard Wills]

Thanks Rob,

I’ve signed up for an account to get an idea of pricing (which is Very Inexpensive). I suspect rigid materials may be a touch pricey to come down to London, but materials on rolls look like a good option.

[RobertLambie]

Yes, you are maybe correct if it is for larger sheet material, Richard.
The correx I had them print in volume, was cut into batches and boxed, so shipping wasn’t an issue.
Not as easy when it comes to full sheets though, unless they are on pallets. 🤨

[David Stevenson]

Hi Richard, We’ve had a S80600 now for over a year and it’s been the best printer to come through our doors. We’ve previously has a Roland BN20 (1st printer), SP540, 2X XR640s, RF640, & a VF2-640. None of these can match the quality or speed of the 80600. Not only that but it’s super quiet, has a brilliant take up system, and overall is much more user friendly to operate. I’m fairly certain when our VF2-640 dies we’ll be replacing it with one of these.

[Richard Wills]

Thanks David,

I know you are right, and I calibrate and profile the life into all my printers, no matter how slow and limited in media options they currently are.

But damn, I don’t think I can touch the prices. But With in house, I should be able to beat teh turn around, and get the quality that I have tohave, for my market.

Until I have a decent R2R in house, I’ll quote on 1st, with a time scale that lets me test, prior to order confirmation.

[David Wilde]

Absolutely. The problem with prices like £7 psm banners I’ve found is sign broker/middle men will take that price and start offering banners at say £12 psm as they don’t need to actually do/make anything and they make a quick few quid on them. This then slowly leads to a ‘Standard retail price’ of £12psm as everybody wants them for that price.

This is half the reason I don’t bother with Roller Banners anymore. The prices they’re being offered at online are not even worth bothering with and the perception is that we’re a rip off when I put in a reasonable quote.

Feels like a race to the bottom in some areas.

[RobertLambie]

Your reply is pretty much, spot-on, David. 👍
And yes, Banner stands are another good example… completely devalued!

[David Hammond]

Good points made by you both.

The same thing happened with Litho Printing.

The likes of HFE who are selling banners at low prices have an entirely different business model to most sign makers, their primary activity is marketing and generating the sales, it’s a matter of selling X banners, knowing they’re making Y%. I would hazard a guess they also market to those customers for additional products. I know I can’t compete with their prices.

There seems to be increasingly more companies popping up who want to simply supply only, add to that the CSCS debacle, I’ve a feeling installation is going become a good selling point.

[Peter Cassidy]

based on overheads and other stuff being discussed. when i think on the manufacturing time, staff and other costs. i can’t make some of those products as cheap as they are being advertised. makes me wonder if i would be better off buying them in and focusing on sales and installation. 🤔 the downside is it takes the most enjoyable part out of the job. 🙄

[David Hammond]

I outsource jobs I could produce myself, as sometimes it’s just easier.

Would I want to be printing & cutting 1000+ A4 labels, or outsource it to a trade supplier, leaving me free to quote on other work.

I had an interesting call this morning from the owner of a well established, larger firm, who’s downsizing, and will no longer be manufacturing anything in house. The time, effort and stress isn’t worth it for them and will work with selected suppliers to outsource, and pick and choose the work they wish to undertake.

[Peter Cassidy]

i occasionally outsource large fabricated work but not something i can do myself. this post has me thinking that i should maybe start as it would free up my time a bit. the trouble i see is the lead times and then waiting on a supplier.

[Colin Crabb]

We still send to a trusted supplier for larger volume cut sheet work and a few fabrications, but otherwise if it can be produced in house, we do.

Bringing more inhouse over 2024 to control quality & scheduling seems to have worked well for us, as issues in 2023 with quality and tight delivery times led to a rethink.

Our customers are happy to pay a little more to guarantee a quality product it seems.

[Pane Talev]

In 2025 I would like to change and ask new clients to pay the bill in advance…then start the printing!

[Chris Wilson]

We’re going to change our garment pricing for regular customers, after a price increase, to then have a sliding scale on discount. I.e 5% on £500, 8% on £1000, to try and encourage larger orders but also to cut down on regular orders. In my head it would take less time to process one larger order at £400 than it does for 3 at around £100. If it works well will try the same with smaller signs, like estate boards and fleet magnetics.

Anything under £100 is pro-forma. Am sick of doing wedding boards and house signs and other tiny jobs that are not going on account and to be invoiced direct to buyer or owner, only to have to chase 3 or 4 times to get it. It’s bad enough chasing accounts as it is without having to send 30 other emails for £27.55

Make time to fix our our workshop and office space to make it look top notch and have a wow factor. Last few years always had opportunities come up that never grew into anything that ment a move. Finally putting the anchor down, least till my wee ones make it to secondary school, as now being a solo parent and trying to juggle a business as well as two tiny people is hard enough without large scale growth.

[David Hammond]

Stopped credit accounts many moons ago, with the exception of a handful of long standing customers and is the way forward.

I’m tempted to stop doing those small finicky jobs. Its not too bad if you can tag it on a print run, but it never really happens like that for me, so it ends up it’s own job.
Already I have a few jobs (not vehicles) that I’ll be fitting myself and can earn a decent day rate doing so hopefully build on that.

[Martyn]

Well for me, i’m not really sure where i am at with the business. Last year was the first year since i started (12yrs ago) that i did not grow my turnover. Each year has been a steady 10-15% growth and last year was just under the year before. Maybe i have hit my ceiling? maybe i should count myself lucky considering the economic times? all i know is it was a bit of a wake up call. Man power wise i know i have another 20% in me if i was to be consistently busy throughout the year…but i know it never works like that.

So this year….to be honest i think the main thing i will try and do is not invest in my company and instead invest in a holiday for me and the family. Every year since i can afford it i have bought a piece of kit, i don’t do loans so i save up all year and then purchase. Last year was a new printer, year before was new laminator, year before that was a bigger better van……it seems never ending. So this year i will try and find the time to spend that money on my family, something i normally feel guilty about. 😄