Summa DC3

[Bob Gilliland]

Phil,

Just as a refresher, you might want to check out these two past threads.

http://pup.phpwebhosting.com/~signgroup/viewtopic.php?t=1375&highlight=

http://pup.phpwebhosting.com/~signgroup/viewtopic.php?t=1813&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

If you want to ask some additional or more pointed questions, post them here and I’ll make Jim aware of them. No promises on if he’ll answer, or how soon, but chances are usually good he would obliged. Keep in mind though, his answers are going to be North American based and may not be applicable in the UK.

I still have limited direct exposure to the device or to anyone that has one. My understanding is that they can’t assemble and ship them quick enough. If you’re interested in a wider format thermal device for the type of work you do, the DC3 or MAXX2 is the way to go. Both offer limited substrate choices when compared to an Edge, but you are use to that anyway with the CC machine, so “that’s” not a big deal more then likely. If you were doing more “production run” type of work, I’d ask you to investigate the Matan device. For the type of work you do and the features for the money, yes, the DC3 is an attractive consideration.

As for SignLab driving the device, let’s see what Jim has to say if he pops in here. If he isn’t in here for a few days, I’ll check to see what the current “official” response is from CADlink. Sorry I can’t give you anything more solid then that Phill.

[tony winterbottom]

Signlab doesnt support the DC3 at present and probably not likely to until later this year, but thats not a guarantee either

you have to bear in mind that the unit allready ships with a RIP

tony

[Phill Fenton]

Thanks Bob Phil & Tony

I do recall the discusions we have had in the past about this machine. A few questions remain unanswered from the previouse threads.

Rob had asked about print head life, and the cost of replacements?

Cutting speed – how quickly does the DC3 cut vinyl?

Phill mentions that only 3ft wide vinyl can be used. An odd size, and wasteful surely?

Banding – the head is 100mm wide – are there visible traces of each pass of the head as there is with the colorcamm?

In addition I was wondering why Summa themselves recommend a particular brand of vinyl be used for printing – this vinyl is pretty expensive, and I wondered what sets it apart from vinyl like Oracal 751 which is much cheaper and gives good results when printed on with the colorcamm. Given that this is the same type of printing process, I would imagine similar results on Oracal using a DC3 or is my assumption flawed? Running costs of £19 per sq. metre would be greatly reduced if printing on a normal vinyl.

The new Signlab E6 with its thermal capabilites – are these features still available if a file was created in signlab – then sent to the machines own rip for printing.? e.g the ability with Signlab to print a colour gradient with a single spot colour – would this feature be possible on the DC3 now – or would we have to wait until Signlab is suporting the DC3

[Fat Bob]

Hi Phil

I can answer the vinyl question for you after talking to a rep on this machine the only bad thing they could come up with was the the problem with the vinyl that is why they specify a certain brand.

If you look at vinyls in a certain light and at the right angle some vinyls have like an orage peel affect if you now what i mean a bit like a vehicle some times after its been repainted or in the case of fords a few years back straight from the factory standard finnish 😆

These very slight undulations are a problem on this particular machine as it tends not to print well in the valleys and so affects the print quality. They say that the vinyl they use is perfectly flat but i am sure ther must be others on the market.

Hope this helps.

Ps. have you looked at the machine that Grafityp are marketing Look out for it if tou go to sign uk ( Forgot the name) and take a tricky file with you on a cd and ask them to print it for you on all the machines you can find of this nature then you can get to compare them instead of looking at the fabulous artwork they will no doubt have spent ages tweaking to look good and does not resemble the type of job that we get from normal customers.

[tony winterbottom]

Im afraid phil you will not be able to utalise the thermal features in Signlab
untill a full driver is put in place, signlab needs to send the spot, halftone and grad info through its own driver.
the only way to output to the device is to print a postscript file
through something like distiller or a laserwritter driver
and then import into the DC3’s RIP and scale as required
or export eps, tiff, or Ai out of SL into the RIP.
all ok for printing…

the problem will be the cut data, Im not sure how the DC3 defines the decal cut

the banding or ‘stitching’ you mention shouldnt be too much of a problem
there are settings on the machine that allow you to adjust the overlap.
on the DC2 its pretty good, if they have improved on the DC3 then all the better

I have printed to the DC2’s through Signlab with excellent results
with no visible banding.

[Bob Gilliland]

Phill,

I received a short and brief email from Jim as he was preparing for the big ISA show in Las Vegas, NV, USA this past week/weekend. He indicated that he would like to respond as soon as he could, but it may not be until he has returned from the show.

In the mean time, and with the understanding that I may not be 100% “on” with them, here are my answers, best I know them.

Cutting speed for the DC3 is 60mm per second, with a cutting width of .81m

I believe Phil is correct about the media handling, but not 100% sure. I think this is also currently true of the Gerber MAXX2 (not that anyone asked). If true, yes a consideration, but not necessarily a devastating event. Perhaps “ganging” of output, or having some “standard” items ready to fill unused space can become a normal operating procedure.

Does lead me to ask a question myself, either for Jim or anyone that has a DC based device; does the tracking mechanics require a “complete” substrate through the drive path, or could half of the width be just the linear while the other half is complete, linear and vinyl? If it doesn’t require a “complete” substrate, then positioning the “print and cut” job around the “spent” area would go a long way in reducing spoilage. Perhaps a little more care and attention during the setup for production, but a possible work around non the less.

Some what related to material use, us “Edgeheads” are use to manually loading in our 15” punched material and not worrying about tracking (provided or material was properly punched). Summa adds a nice feature for the non-punched material, laser tracking with auto alignment. Nice! Although, in relation to my question above, “if” the machine can run “half consumed” lengths of vinyl, is this technology still available for use on “clear” linear, or just craft paper based substrates?

Banding, as defined by most with current or past ColorCAMM experience is practically non-existent based upon the samples I have seen to date. I openly admit and attempt not to hide my bias against “stitching” technologies, but Summa, IMHO, appears to be the “king of the mountain” for all the current devices using such technologies in our industry. The MAXX2 has made great strides, but I still perceive Summa to be tops compared to Gerber and Roland. Haven’t seen any output from the new Nautilus yet, but knowing a little bit about it, doubt that they would be leading the race from the gate.

As for the vinyl’s, as Bob mentioned, it has more to do with what consistence of quality is provided from the manufacture. Without going into great detail, Gerber has a similar product stance; “Edge” ready materials. This material is supposedly to be “dirt” or other “contamination” free (or at least greatly reduced). Also, the clay mold used during the casting process is suppose to be changed more frequently then other non-Edge ready materials, again, supposedly giving a more consistent finished surface. Surface quality and consistency is more important for thermal printing then that of ink printing and way more so then for straight cutting purposes. Not to say that it isn’t important in those applications as well, just not as critical as thermal.

That being stated, feel free to run any material thru a DC3 you wish (within reason). The thing to remember is any longevity issue with the print will be on your own dime and not Summa’s. Just like Gerber is not going to stand behind a premature failure of an outdoor application if Avery vinyl and IIMAK Duracoat foils were used for production. It’s not there materials or materials that have been certified or approved for use. The more abrasive the surface or contamination that comes into contact with the head, the greater your chances of influencing the life of a head in perhaps a detrimental direction.

I can echo what Tony mentions about SignLab and the DC3 device, that unobstructed complete work flow can not be performed direct at this time. I also have heard mentions about possible support in the future, but believe it best to let CADlink or Summa speak direct about such issues and not let early speculation run onto the boards.