Small printer with white ink option?

[Mark Johnston]

i only now of the small roland machine. well thats unless you can get your hands on an old gerber edge!

[David Stevenson]

I would seriously think long and hard as to whether you really need white ink.
We’ve had 3 different printers over the years with a white ink option, and all it’s done is cost us money.

The ink is approximately twice the price of the others.
They advise removing and shaking the cartridge daily to keep it mixed properly.
The opacity of the Roland ink was terrible (possibly improved over the last few years since we owned one).
The print speed was terrible, and if you don’t use it regularly, you’ll find the majority of the ink ends up in the waste tank!

We decided with our last printer, which is an Epson, that we should get white ink again (seemed like a good idea at the time).
Once again, we didn’t have enough jobs to be using it constantly, so a very expensive cartridge was wasted by the printer’s auto cleaning to stop the ink from settling in the ink lines.

Anything now we need white, we do by printing on clear and backing up with white vinyl. Much better quality, in my opinion and a lot less hassle. As a final note, unless it’s been massively upgraded, I’d stay away from the Roland BN20. Our supplier nicknamed it “the boomerang 20”, as no sooner had they sold one than the customer was looking to trade it in for a better machine.
Awkwardly sized rolls, unbelievably slow print speeds, no dryer, waste ink tank that needs to be replaced when full, the list goes on. Maybe ok for small runs if you are not doing a lot, but should your business get bigger, the BN20 will be out the door faster than you can imagine.

PS.
Sorry to sound so negative, but we’ve been bitten too many times to admit it. 🙂

[Nick Minnery]

Mark and David, thanks for the replies

David, I was already a bit concerned having read a few things regarding white ink. The work I might be doing, would involve only a very small amount of white (on clear) decals. I’ll probably look at something like a Roland VS300 with standard ink set up, And if white decals are ever required, deal with it then. (Outsource perhaps)

Thanks again.

[Robert Lambie]

I agree with @David-Stevenson on the white ink scenario. Only buy if you have a constant need for white ink!
We bought a UV flatbed about 14+ years ago, which cost another £5k to have the optional white ink.
I remember the first small job we had to print white, and there was no white ink left in the litre bottle! 🤔 It was continually dumping the white ink to keep it moving. 🤨
Funny looking back, but anything but funny when the sales rep is asking you to calm down, while assuring you he told you all this during the demo. Yeh right! 😏

The following isn’t going to be a solution. I thought the Thermal 24-inch wide Summa DC5 Print & Cut would be an option for you, but I do not think it is available now, at least not in the UK, but it appears to be still listed on some U.S. websites.

Thermal printers:

Speed and running costs are where these machines started to fall behind. Once solvent inkjets hit the scene, they pretty much stole the show. That said, there are still niche markets that these machines fill a gap, even today, I hear of companies still running old Gerber edge printers.
I don’t know of many companies running the Summa thermal printers, but I remember when they came on the market, I fancied having one!

Gerber EDGE FX + Gerber cutter – 12 Inch Wide – Discontinued
Gerber EDGE II + Gerber cutter – 12 Inch Wide – Discontinued

Roland PC600 – Print & Cut – 24 Inch Wide – Discontinued
Roland PC60 – Print & Cut – 24 Inch Wide – Discontinued

Summa DC5 sx – Print & Cut – 54 inch wide – unsure if discontinued
Summa DC5 – Print & Cut – 24 inch wide – unsure if discontinued

https://youtu.be/6vHppOyxlnk?si=q-lKl_QSYkb2J65A

[Jamie Wood]

We have one of our Epsons set up with white ink, as we use it for clear labels every few days, but I agree, that if it’s not going to be used often, I think you would be better off with just a standard set-up.

[David Hammond]

Not sure how the HP latex gets on as that circulates the White ink, rotates the print head. However you’re still paying a premium for it.

If you’re not anticipating printing white often, or you can’t use white vinyl as an alternative, there are options to outsource white ink… Which in 14+ years I’ve only needed to do once and that was only a few months ago.

[Colin Crabb]

Its a great system, waaaaaay better than the old ‘throwing ink away’ system, pop heads into the rotation chamber and happy news, ink is just moved from one cart’ to another.

HP white is also very very good.

[George Zerbino]

Plus one for me as well on the Latex, no wasted ink in three years of owning it. And the opacity is great.
Doesn’t get used very often but super handy to have when needed.
For the smaller jobs I still use the Gerber Edge FX as it’s very hard to beat – but when larger sizes are needed the HP700W is great.

[Nick Minnery]

Robert, Jamie, David, thank you for the comments, all very helpful.

I will definitely not be pursuing a printer with white option, now. I think something like a Roland VS-300 will be my best option.

I’ll be hopefully doing more (small) aircraft decals. These are printed on clear vinyl, then laminated – and 99% of them are applied to white, which is great. But rarely there are dark areas on the aircraft and white lettering is required. That’s where the issue is. I’m thinking I could do these in cut vinyl (onto the clear) then laminate on top. Sometimes printed white letters are almost as thick as vinyl, so this could be a way around the issue.

Thanks again guys 👍

[Colin Crabb]

Get in touch if you ever need white on clear option, we do a lot of trade print stuff.

[Nick Minnery]

Hi Colin

Thank you, that’s really great to know, I won’t stress as much now👍

[David Stevenson]

As a side note when we owned our 1st printer, the Roland BN20 I opened the waste ink tank when it was full, and rather than pay for a replacement removed the material that absorbed the waste ink and replaced it with ladies sanitary pads! Worked a treat although we did find it got quite temperamental for a few days at a certain time every month😂😂😂

[Robert Lambie]

🤣

[Robert Lambie]

@George-Zerbino
Hi George

Does Spandex still service these machines and supply for the Edge?
I was speaking with someone a few months ago, and heard the narrow rolls of vinyl are still available for the machine. Is this still the case?
I know they were cutting-edge, top-notch machines back in their day, but I’m blown away that they are still being used to this day.

[George Zerbino]

Hi Rob
Unfortunately Spandex no longer offer servicing & repairs to the Edge FX as of 13/09/2023, not sure about spare parts availability though.

Consumables such as foils and sprocketed vinyls are still available for them – hopefully for a reasonable amount of time, specially as a lot of the aftermarket foils seem to be diminishing.

I still use mine almost every day as it does certain jobs that no other inkjet/uv/latex/solvent/etc. can do.

It is possible to get the hardware service and repaired by third parties – oddly enough I had someone in today to look & sort out all of the machines for me (don’t know if I can say the name here but he definitively gets a thumbs up from me – let me know if I can say his name).

[Robert Lambie]

Thanks for the reply, George.

Yes, I can imagine a lot of things these printers could be great for, that the inkjets aren’t!

“Many moons ago”, when we had a Roland PC60, I purchased that instead of buying an Edge, purely for the automated cart changing and twice the width and onboard cutting, all in one machine. (wrong move on my part) 🤨
An amazing machine as it was, it cost a fortune to run due to the ribbons and “big” prints often didn’t work without errors of some sort. 😠anyway…
What the printer was great for was the likes of small intricate labelling on model railways, trains, and other types of models, where detail was everything. We used to have a few customers who regularly came in for things. then their model club mates and so on…

oddly enough I had someone in today to look & sort out all of the machines for me (don’t know if I can say the name here but he definitively gets a thumbs up from me – let me know if I can say his name).

Yes, of course, you can recommend anyone or company you want, mate.

[George Zerbino]

Hi Rob,
Perfect – the person who came to my rescue is Peter Whitehead from https://www.pwse-ltd.co.uk
Very knowledgeable person, sorted the issue with my Edges straightaway, does Summa and Mutoh as well as Gerber machines.

[George Zerbino]

And to show what the Edge can do, here’s a photo from 26 years ago!
Pretty large images & yellow faded stripes, not bad for a machine that’s only 299mm wide…
From my files the image was made in 6 horizontal sections, printed & contour cut.
The print lasted about 5 years without a laminate.