Does anyone else struggle with getting design charges from customers?

[David Lyons]

Hi
We farm a lot of litho work. Its where I started. I split the bill into parts one for print and one for design. i would explain if they come back for reprint they only pay printing cost. Generally this helps. My first question is "do you have print ready artwork" and work from there. Usually you get an answer like " i have a logo and some pictures, I just need you to put it together" . No problem the design charge will be ??? We also charge for fixing artwork – bleeds etc. Charging for these services is becoming more necessary with low reseller margins, shorter runs and digital prints of a few hundred. Recently I am beginning to see that certain types of jobs are not worth taking again down to low margins. I wish I had the courage to say more often thanks but no thanks!

[Robert Lambie]

Design is always "conveniently" over looked by the customer.
Try apply a margin to the price you give the customer, this is to allow a bit for design and is conveniently hidden by you!
When i say design, give a general layout design service only, based on the information or artwork provided.
The effort and time put into this should be reflected by the value of the job agreed by the customer before hand.

It is better to have something worded, clear stated in your reception and also right by the computer a customer maybe sat in front while having changes to a design made. perhaps also in your email signature etc. it is a subtle way to keep them aware that this is not free and is protected by copyright, should their intention be to take your artwork to the sign company along the road. Obviously this is not going to deter everyone, but will keep it to a minimum.

Do not give multiple examples, layouts etc, thats where a "design service" falls into place and further charges should apply.

[Alex Crosbie]

Yes, i have the same problem with some clients regardless of what industry they’re in.

I usually explain that we charge for design separately so that when they re-order they’ll actually save money rather than including it in inflated prices in the first place, that usually satisfies them.

I don’t have a set price for design of a flyer but I do have an hourly rate which I will give an indication of cost if they can give me a brief outline of what they’re trying to achieve (logo design, layout, providing images etc)

Though I tend not to really discuss prices face to face, I usually take all the details, work out the costs and send a quote so that they have everything in writing and can make their own decision.

That way if they don’t like it they’re welcome to look at alternatives, at the end of the day if they don’t want to pay for my time and don’t see a value in my training, experience and the quality of my design work then I don’t really want them as a client!

[David Hammond]

Yes & No. Some of our larger, long standing customers, are happy to pay for design. They simply don’t have the facilities and time to do it themselves, and paying us get’s it done quicker, and often better than their own attempts.

Others expect a fixed price, yet can’t give you the faintest idea what they’d like, and then of course there’s those who expect it for free.

We were designing a logo for a customer who bought in a few doodles on the back of an envelope. We took these drawings and recreated some in Illustrator. Customer wasn’t happy as all we’d done is use his ideas :rollseyes: then we get the typical vague requests like can we make it more corporate, or modern. They wanted a true 3d effect, not something we could produce ourselves, so asked a design agency client of ours to quote as they have 3d rendering software.

£120+VAT to 3d render the logo, amendments charged at their hourly rate.

I see it frequently the ‘Free Design’ sales pitch, and ridiculously cheap print prices… we simply don’t try and compete with them, as said, what’s the point?

[Chris Wilson]

We just give them a price including design for anything litho. We outsource the printing also. We’re competitive up this neck of the woods and never been hit back. In fact I think the words "including design" regardless of the price normally seals the deal.

[David Hammond]

Including the design in the price, and selling it as ‘Free’ is all well and good, until you get that customer who just cannot make a decision, and you spend hours going round in circles.

Even if you’re hiding the cost in the price, by advertising it as ‘free’ kind of devalues your time & service? Personally I would sell it as ‘including design’.

Out of interest do you include any stock photography/backgrounds in with the design?

[Paul Hodges]

I think what this comes down to is the person who doesn’t want to pay for the design, is probably the same person who doesn’t want to pay for anything really, and you’ll have a fight on your hands with whatever you sell him because this guy can always get it cheaper down the road don’t you know 😉

So it’s probably a case of do we want these types of customers? I always recommend these types to Staples or some place else, as long as it’s far away from me.

I don’t think for one minute you should question charging a design fee or question how you present it. If the guy can get alternative design services for a bit less then of course you can revise your rate, but if he doesn’t want to pay anything then he’s in the wrong place isn’t he?

We all know that serious customers just want the work done quickly and efficiently and they accept the associated costs.
The minute you get dragged into trying to justify why you charge for certain things with the cheap and cheerful customers,
you’re just wasting your own valuable time.

[Martin Cole]

I had a phone call the other day…….

Hi do you do logos for cars?

A hesitant Yes, what are you after?

I just need to some logos

right..do you have anything already done..artwork..ideas to go on..anything??

No they are for taxis

Right ok,

I need to sit down with you at your computer to come up with something.

Right.. email me or give me some kind of brief and I’ll give you an idea of cost.

what to do a logo !!!

Yes !!

puts the phone down on me

:puppyeyes:

[Phill Fenton]

quote Martin Cole:

Right.. email me or give me some kind of brief and I’ll give you an idea of cost.
:puppyeyes:

You’re a robbing barsteward Martin. Everyone knows if it’s on you computer it doesn’t cost anything.
Capitalist pig 😆

[Martin Cole]

😆 😆

Perhaps I should have an open day like the fire stations do and people can just come in have a play around with the equipment.
I’m sure the guy who phoned up thought he was going to do that.

[Martyn Heath]

quote Martin Cole:

😆 😆

Perhaps I should have an open day like the fire stations do and people can just come in have a play around with the equipment.
I’m sure the guy who phoned up thought he was going to do that.

:smiles: :smiles: thats a great idea martin.

[Stuart Miller]

I seperate all my quotes into
Design & Artwork
Supply of sign & materials
Transport & fitting

I then explain that all signs require some form of artwork adjustment but if they supply print ready artwork this will be a small charge otherwise charged hourly and if lots of changes and extra proofs this will go up pro rata.

I also have a section on my website under "FAQs for signs" where I try to prepare people with what is involved in making a sign and such things as design & artwork, how long will it take and maintenance.
Link here if anyone interested 🙂
FAQs for Signs – Reflecta

[David Hammond]

Stuart thanks for the link. I’ve popped a similar FAQ’s page up on our site.

Spotted a van the other day on the way to work, the design looked familiar but we didn’t fit it.

A quick search on Google, and a local van dealership has it’s own sign company now.

Also noticed they’ve poached an existing customer of ours who we did some initial ideas for their new van.

We had another person contact us who we quoted 12months ago with a quick design, asking for us to requote, based on "their design", as they had the green light. What it actually was, was our original design carefully cropped so you couldn’t see our logo etc.

My own fault for not practicing what I preach.

We’re making a big push on the van signs this next quarter, so will be tightening up our sales process.

I’d rather not do the job, than do it and not get paid.

[Colin Crabb]

When sending out a proof – NEVER send the newly designed work as a PDF (PDF, is a vector and 99% of the time can be edited). Always export artboard as a 72dpi Jpeg 👿 then place onto your branded (with T&C’s) proof sheet, and then save & send as a PDF.

Okay, while it doesn’t fully eliminate A.N Other copying the design, It does make it a lot harder, as if they attempt to pull apart the supplied proof copy, it will be a low res, flat image 😎 and it will have to be reset.

[David Hammond]

We rasterise the vector artwork in Illustrator with a raterised watermark on top, and then PDF if.

Still doesn’t stop it being copied. Our new approach is to charge for such services :thumbsup:

[Gordon Smithard]

I’ve always use pdfs but with the security settings so it can’t be edited, not sure how secure this is though so maybe jpegs is the way to go.
I was once sent a vectorised pdf that a customer got from another company and when I zoomed right in you could see loads of tiny zig zags in the outline every 3 – 4 inches, obviously some sort of security thing but I haven’t seen anything that will do this.

[David Hammond]

You could apply a jagged filter in illustrator.

Regardless of what we do to make it harder to copy, once someone has seen the idea, it’s quicker to recreate than to generate something new.

As they say on TV, I’m out! Pay for the design, or go elsewhere. Once you’ve paid for it do as you please.