Banding Issue? Dark lines through prints… CJV30-60

[Stafford Cox]

Can you post a picture of the nozzle test? Also, have you adjusted the feed compensation?

[Danny Evans]

quote Stafford Cox:

Can you post a picture of the nozzle test? Also, have you adjusted the feed compensation?

Hi Stafford,

Thanks for the response.
We’ve done nozzle tests, and there are a few missing, but nothing that I’ve read here that should worry us… I shall post a photo ASAP.

Media comp setting however there may be an issue. The grey comp bands it prints seems miles apart. Adjusting the settings, it is still majorly out… any ideas whilst I get a fresh nozzle check done.

Appreciated.

[Stafford Cox]

It looks to me like you’ve got contamination in one of your colours. Can you see the dark strip at the front or back of the test draw? It also looks like you’re printing at a low resolution or a fairly poor profile/rip (from the coarse dithering in the solid prints)

The media comp is usually somewhere between -50 and 50 but if you set it to -100 and print the test pattern and then +100 and do the same, you should see it go from a big gap to a big overlap. Then gradually work your way to a point where there’s no gap or overlap. I hope that makes sense?

Get a picture of the nozzle test and the media comp pattern posted and I should have more of an idea.

[Danny Evans]

Hi Stafford, sorry for the long delay in getting back to you. I decided to relentlessly try every cleaning process I’ve read/researched upon, including soaking the head overnight by shutting down during a nozzlewash.

I fear we may have bought a bit of a dud machine. Upon receiving the machine, there was excessive ink splattered on the undercarriage and area around the head, capping station etc. I’ve been regularly cleaning it, but fear there was a far greater issue with the head… head strike. Or a very small case of it.

I’ve attached photos, and this is our best result yet of a nozzle test draw.

I previously spoke of a few nozzle tests being out, which were primarily towards the centre of the machine. The photos now show that it’s printing better in general during the test. All but one line on the blue secondary are correct, until it reaches the inner most section..

Do the test draw photos suggest a small case of head strike??

Also, after doing 3 test prints side by side, the head appeared to have a little ink floating on it, and blue/yellow and black in the "grooves" of the head…

What are folks opinion on this?
Are we going to have to fork out £1000 on a new head?

We not had one successful print from this machine yet, and truly gutted about this. I’m going to approach the company whom sold it, after input/feedback from the forum, but fear they will deny its being present when sold, and head strike isn’t covered in their 6 month warranty.

Any advise, input etc would be most appreciated.

Can we get away with fairly decent prints, somehow??? We need to make some money back on this machine…

Also, you spoke of poor quality.
We are using DG CAL 100 micron gloss white "blockout" vinyl, and with no specific profiles available we experimented with several including Rijet 100, 3M etc, all at different resolutions, and there is still signs of dithering.

I previously had print my work done prior to purchasing this machine, and came to the impression from their prints, that there is always some dithering to expect, as it’s the RIP software that defines CMYK values and not the artwork in Illustrator etc??

Any advise on the Head status, possibility of printing fairly decent decals for Motorcycles/Bikes etc, would be most greatly appreciated… before I complain to the company re warranty/condition.

Kind regards
Dan
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[Danny Evans]

You may notice, on the photo of the head/carriage, thick black ink on one side of the carriage… this was taken after a severe clean and it was the best I could do… that thick black/purple ink, was everywhere!! Including the capping station…

Are the 8 grooves on the print head supposed to be there? Why is ink collecting in 4 of them… where they are missing from the test draws. Is this head strike? With such a small area of potential damage, can fair condition prints be achieved somehow?

Also, notice the ink smearing to the upper photo area of the head, this is direct from 90 minute nozzlewash, followed by a normal clean, followed by 3 test draws…

Should it have ink floating/smeared around it??

[Danny Evans]

Really hope someone can assist, or let us know what I already fear.

I’ve attached a photo of the capping station ink, on swabs, that was cleaned after one cleaning session. This was after excessive cleaning of the thick ink that appeared around it… photos of the swabs show how much ink there was!!

Is this normal? Would you say the machine was looked after/maintained prior to the purchase?

I shall take a photo of the capping station itself, in the morning… going to try get some sleep, and get used to the idea that our startup company may need to spend £1500+ on a new head and capping station, plus inks for all the cleaning and testing we’ve done over the past month!! *sigh*

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[Stafford Cox]

That’s a whole lot of questions to try and reply to from my phone. The head itself look used, but not necessarily abused. There are not obvious head strikes on it other than a few light scuffs that you would expect from any used DX5 print head. It would be useful to see some pictures of the capping station so we can see if it’s deformed at all and letting air in when cleaning, therefore not cleaning efficiently.

Having said that, I would prepare yourself for a new head. It looks to me like those nozzles at the top (or bottom) of the test draw are there to stay. You could try doubling the passes from the RIP software to try and hide the banding, that would hopefully hide the problem for now.

Where in the country are you? Under some circumstances I could drop in for free and give you a more accurate diagnosis. Unfortunately even the best description and pictures can be difficult to diagnose from a phone screen.

Stafford

[Danny Evans]

Haha! I agree Stafford – a whole lot of questions.

Will forward a photo of the capping station later today. I’ve previously tried double passing, and got better results by far, with only ever so slight handling/fuzzy edges, which may allow us to get some funds in to purchase a new head… we produce decals, so crystal clear prints are not a priority, as long as they are okay from arm distance.

On the test draws, you can see at the top (centre of the machine, when the ink sits in the print head grooves) that the lines fade out quickly, and there is some slight leaning to the scan direction. From my understanding, these are similar to signs of head strike, but examples I’ve seen are far worse and prominent. Could anything else cause the nozzle lines to slightly curve/lean at the top section we are referring to? Air pressure, ink pressure/fluidity?

There was black in floating over the same area on the head, which gradually disappeared with plenty of cleans/washes. Referring to the original photos with handling and black lines through it, this must have been the cause. It’s like ink sits in those grooves on the head, and isn’t coming out or washing of during normal cleaning processes.

Tonight I will again try test printing via a test draw, but also have it print of a couple designs to see if they are "passable" by our standards.

Any advise re Profiles. I printed of approx 12 different profiles before now, using Rasterlink 5 SG, and even the best ones, with double pass and uni/bi-directional print, has some dithering.

Thanks again
Dan

P.S. we are based in South Wales area. Blackwood.

[Stafford Cox]

Thanks Danny. I’m a bit limited on my replies at the minute as I’m away in Croatia being trained on new products. Double striking will rattle through your ink quickly and take ages to dry. If you just double your passes, for example 24pass instead of 12, that should hide the banding and still dry as each pass will be half the size, rather than than the same size, twice. I hope that makes sense?

I’m in South Wales (Barry) next week and MIGHT be able to swing by and have a free look.

[Danny Evans]

Hi Stafford,

We’ve never done double strike, but often do use different passes and overlap ratios.

I’ve attached a photo of the capping station, which had been cleaned up several times. It was a lot worse than this!!!

Thanks for all your support and advise thus far. Our post code is NP12 0LA, in case you’re available to pass by after Barry. But no worries, if you can’t. Just grateful for the support thus far. 🙂

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[Danny Evans]

If you advise the capping station needs changing, I shall contact the seller and try claim one under the warranty.

Thanks again.
Dan

[Stafford Cox]

Thanks Dan. I’m not advising anything at the moment as I’ve not seen the machine in the flesh as it were, but something look a little odd with your capping station. I would expect to see a similar pattern from left to right, similar to your test draw configuration in the cap. Mat the capping position is out of alignment? Again, I’m a little limited in what I can do immediately but I’ll try and drop in next week if at all possible.

[Robert Lambie]

quick note folks:

Do NOT put image tags on images you have uploaded.
Just upload using the image "uploading facilities provided".
all that happens is the image is viewable only on mobile devices, if at all.

when you attach an image, its attached. no linking / embedding tags required.

fixings posts like this takes moderators a lot of time, it is much easier to just bin the thread with dead image links. it also de-ranks the site with google due to dead links… please read board rules and use the facilities provided properly.

[Danny Evans]

Hi Stafford, I feel you must be correct. Today, after freshly switching the machine on, doing a normal clean, then performing a test draw, there is black contamination in the yellow again, and excessive (or what I’d deem excessive) ink and cleaning solution around the capping station and the head area. There is diluted black/purple ink floating on the head again too.

I’ll upload some photos, once I figure out how to use this app image uploader.

I knew buying the Mimaki would require maintenance and regular cleaning, but this is not what I expected from a £4K machine. Hope you can swing by… possibly even do something via FaceTime/webcam?

@Rob, I’m currently using the iPhone app downloaded from this page to upload images. Please can you advise the correct way to do it via the app. Thanks.

[Danny Evans]

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[Stafford Cox]

Glad you got the uploaded sorted.

It does have symptoms of a damaged head to be honest, maybe just the manifold but it’s impossible to say for sure without seeing it. I’ll do my best to swing by next week. If not, I’ve got a guy based in Cardiff who should be able to drop in on his way to or from a job.

[Danny Evans]

Thanks Stafford.
A couple more photos to help pre-assess the situation.

I printed a couple designs this evening, which generally came put out, but there was some dithering in the colours, and black ink overspray. Which blurred crisp edges… but passable for some designs to be printed, laminated and sold.

Hope to meet your acquaintance, next week. But if unable, a visit from anyone more experienced than myself would be most appreciated.

Thanks
Dan

All these were after being cleaned last night, and fired up again this evening, with a "normal" clean. http://www.uksignboards.com/mobile-gall … 9ab16a.jpg

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[Danny Evans]

Another colour chart test print.
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[Danny Evans]

Printed using the rijet 100 gloss profile, 24pass, 1x overlap, 1080×720 res. Bi directional.

[Danny Evans]

Hi Stafford,

Trust you are well, and enjoyed your weekend.

Seems you may be correct re the capping station. The machine seems to have excessive ink floating on the head and undercarriage, when firing it up the next day, after being cleaned down the previous evening after use.

My usual procedure is to fire the machine up, have the temperature set to HMH, do a "normal clean" then run a test draw. Same results every time. Black contaminating the yellow… put the machine in to maintenance mode, and there is clearly ink on the head, undercarriage and around the capping station. Once cleaned up, followed by another "normal clean" I get better results, but still with the slight missing nozzle draw test sections, at the top left. I still fear this is head strike, possibly by something via the capping station? The test draw leans/curves slightly left, before disappearing.

Once cleaned up (I’m running out of foam cleaning swabs at a fast rate!) the machine seems to handle small print loads fine, but noticed yesterday evening that when printing approx 40+ cm feed wise, there is once again ink on the head… I’ve sat there and watched it whizz back and forth, and can confirm, the head does not contact the vinyl, and appears that this happens when it briefly cleans itself mid print…

I’m emailing the seller/company today to let them know of my suspicions. Hopefully they will honour their warranty and supply a new capping station, but doubt they will accept buying a new head.

In other news, the dithering… I’ve tried multiple profiles, with overlap, fast/slow, single layer, double layer (double strike?) and varying resolutions. Found something acceptable, but still have dithering.
Once the head/ink/mess issue has been sorted, hopefully I can look at getting the dithering issue sorted 🙂

[Danny Evans]

These photos show the first test draw of a printing session, typically after a "normal clean" upon firing the machine up.

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Once I’ve manually cleaned the area up, so that it’s clean from top to bottom, followed another "normal clean", I get the test draw I sent the other day. Perfect other than the top left section.

Now to have a cup of tea before emailing the seller!!

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[Stafford Cox]

What’s your company name Danny? I’ll try and get in tomorrow or Thursday.

[Danny Evans]

Hi Stafford,

My partner and I only operate during the evenings, as I work full time at the local college. Our printer is currently in our spare front room, which I hope you don’t mind. Haha.

Our company is called StandUp StandOut Ltd, but often use the trading name SUSO GFX (StandUp StandOut Graphics).

I’m stuck in work tomorrow evening until late, so if you’re available Thursday post 2:30pm, that would be great. But understand if you have commitments elsewhere or travelling plans.

Im just about to run out of the foam swabs, have approx a handful left (we’ve got through a lot recently!!)
Shall order some more in for fast track delivery tomorrow.

If easier let me know how I can forward my mobile number, should you prefer to text/iMessage.

Thanks in advance.
Dan

[Danny Evans]

Hi Stafford,

Trust you are well.
We are still experiencing the same issues here, on a daily occurrence.

Would you recommend we buy and fit a new capping station, given the photos? Or would it be best to have a technician do a service, and see what their opinion is?

I’ve complained to the company whom sold us the machine, but surprise, surprise… no response after almost a fortnight 🙁

Thanks
Dan

[Stafford Cox]

Hi Dan.

Sorry for the lack of contact lately, it’s been absolutely frantic!!

I would definitely recommend getting somebody qualified to come in and check out. I’d hate for you to replace the head only to find it’s actually something a fraction of the price that’s causing the problem. My man in Cardiff is on paternity leave at the minute, hence me not being able to drop in.

The capping station is always worth replacing to keep the head in good shape so you could try that, but you would need to align the cap correctly to ensure a good seal on the head. I think it’s probably time to pay somebody to come and sort it for you.

Stafford.

[Danny Evans]

Hi Stafford,

That’s okay 🙂 We’ve been busy with die-cut orders etc. Hope you’re not over-working yourself!

Is your company able to come, and review? If so, we shall get in touch via the website/phone.

Alternatively, anyone you recommend other than Hybrid?

Ultimately, we are now discussing options to legally have the seller pay the charge, so any advise would be appreciate re companies/technicians.

Thanks again. You’re been a star!!
Danny @ SUSO GFX

[Stafford Cox]

I only would have visited in a company capacity anyway. It’s difficult to book in a definite day to visit as freebie. If you wanted to pay the callout charge etc then I can book something firm in the diary but a ‘when passing’ type job always has to make way to contract customers as I’m sure you can appreciate.

Hybrid will be expensive, I’ll tell you that much. My understanding is that they have good engineers and not so good ones. The response time can often be long though.