Avery "flat surface cleaner" blue vs green

[RobertLambie]

I used to use it wrapping as well as during wrap training a lot!
what I noticed is the original avery surface cleaner was a darker shade of green. but then changed to a sort of mint green like it is now.
I also noticed that it would not remove pen marks as good as before, because I would mark panels during training with pen and wipe straight off after with the surface cleaner. but this stopped when the mint looking one appeared. so it’s weaker, possibly diluted

I haven’t tried the blue version, I haven’t gone back to Avery cleaner since.

I prefer to use 25 lite drums of isopropyl alcohol. you will get this from most good auto paint suppliers or janitorial supplies companies. just be sure to tell them you want 100% and not diluted, as that happens too! you can tell if its watered down as it tends to water bead on the surface and not dry as fast if it’s diluted.

[Martyn]

Hi rob yes i noticed the colour got lighter a few years back and assumed the same that the strength had changed. So the green went to mint but how about this blue flat panel cleaner? wondering where that sits in this equation

[Chris Wilson]

Possibly doesn’t even have IPA in it. I was told we are getting a price increase on it. But we buy in bulk. I would imagine there banking on the fact it’s not for recesses so doesn’t matter as if all the grease is off as there’s a big contact area.

I use IPA bought from signgeer in 5L at a time for most jobs.

I go over a van afterwords with Avery surface cleaner as it gives a better glide when putting down the wrap vinyl. But I don’t feel it does as good as IPA. On deep recesses I don’t let the surface cleaner touch it. Only other thing we use it for is windows.

Also buy panel wipe in 5L from our local hardware store at £18 a tin. Tend to wipe vans down with this first. If it’s health and safety signs or something short term am not bothered, if that’s closer to me than the IPA, then it’s getting used.

[RobertLambie]

the thing is Chris, you could be right on your views mate, but vinyl manufacturers these days now stipulate the use of their own cleaners in particular to uphold, what in my view are non-existing product warranties!

[RobertLambie]

@MartynHeath

I have not used it Martyn, but if the difference between the green and blue is cost over performance. I would stick with the green for “everything”. The last thing I want is two cleaners in my workshop and the weak one is used on a wrap and I then have a fail on my hands as a result. I don’t know if that’s the case here with Avery bringing in the blue version, but I am guessing it is.

for me, I prefer one product does all, hence the use of isopropanol. which I fully understand is not some manufacturers stipulations like Avery, 3M etc.

[Gary Forbes]

Are the vinyl manufacturers not just rebranding cleaners with their name to make a margin?
Not being funny, but I could print a label and stick it on the side of a cleaning bottle and call it Forbes Surface Cleaner. then tell my customers they must clean their van with my cleaner or the graphics might fail. in comes the customer with a dog-eared bit of vinyl on their van, complaining it needs to be fixed.

shake my head. “Nah, you haven’t been using my Forbes surface cleaner mate. whatever you have used has damaged the graphics. I can fix it, but it will cost you!”

[David Hammond]

Out of interest, does anyone find the Avery cleaner helps the advert vinyl glide better than other surface cleaners?

[Chris Wilson]

Yea it does give a glide, however we tried the Avery 1105 and I know exactly what you mean. Gave me a very late night and took a week of my life at least. Few years ago now. We stick to the SLX.

We were using green surface cleaner back then, but on the hunt for other versions at the moment. It’s getting a bit pricey. Think we will be switch to metamarks which is a 2/3rds the cost

[RobertLambie]

Are you not just better using 100% IPA for everything, Chris?
It saves messing around with different brands and will cost you less if bought in 25 ltr drums.

[Chris Wilson]

Boys find it doesn’t have the same glide as the surface cleaner.. and it doesn’t smell as good 🙄🙄🙄 *big sigh* I will say though and am touching all sorts of wood, for 150-200 vehicles we wrap/part wrap a year, none have come back with pops. Now starting to get some from 5 years ago or so come in to get stripped and it’s nice walking round then to be honest. Not to get cocky. But no complaints.

It’s not end of the world, just like am sure everyone else is noticing all the sort of, 2 years/3 years ago, product that used to almost be throw away, are actually becoming a bit pricey. £27 a roll now for RP45 tape I think. Only thing that’s not budged is the scalpel blades, although i noticed we can now buy sterile ones as well 🤣 our prices have gone up so nothing has changed, actually its better year on year, just hurts getting 4 tapes for £100 instead of the 12 you used to get. 🤣 I like my bang for my buck. Let’s come back to this in 10 years time and see how silly I was for moaning at £27 a roll.

Anyway back to cleaner…

[RobertLambie]

@DavidHammond

I haven’t used the cleaners in a long time, so I don’t know if this is the case.

However, anything that gives aid in application, in my opinion, has “possible consequences” of its use because it prohibits the adhesive from doing its job for an extended period of time.
This goes for the various adhesive systems also…
Everything that is introduced is to help make the job easier, which increases the users, which increases the manufacturers sales. Fair play to them, but still. 🤨

[David Hammond]

I ask having fun and games with Avery 1105 again today, warm again but it’s absolutely terrible to work with, you’d never know it was easy apply and repositionable

[RobertLambie]

If this wasn’t humid muggy horrible weather, I would be more concerned, but as it is, I would blame that for the time being David.

I think if it was the heat from the latex, you would experience it from all your prints, rather than just now. That said, the humid weather certainly won’t help cool the material down quickly.
Could be worth making sure the vehicle is inside in the shade, long before you wrap it. just to let the surface metal of the van cool down.

Also, before applying any vinyl, it might be a good idea to use your laser thermometer on the van’s surface first. Just in case it is indeed, too warm.

if you have a portable air conditioner, I would put it inside the back of the van with the doors closed and see if you can cool the van from the inside.

You might still have one of those print-outgassing units. put the vinyl in that with the fans on, or better still, the air conditioner sat next to the prints.

I know it’s not what we want to hear, try this, try that, but heat always “promotes adhesion”.
A warm workshop, warm van surface, warm stimulated adhesive and your nightmare, starts!

https://youtu.be/vwrPR2cNHn0?feature=shared

[David Hammond]

I do think it’s the warmer weather, just coincidence both installs have fallen mid heat waves.

That also said the defaults heat settings on the 1105 EA RS profile is 112 degree’s, which sounds excessive to me, considering post heating temperature of the vinyl isn’t that high, and most other vinyl I print is considerably lower.

[RobertLambie]

Regarding the heat settings being high, you are correct, they do appear to be excessive.
Offhand, I can’t quote other brands that are as high as that, but there are others, so Avery isn’t the only one.
Latex is a water-based ink, and high heat settings are required to evaporate the water. Different materials require different settings, but as you have noticed, they exceed the post-heating temperatures of wrapping vinyl. I have raised my concerns about this for a number of years, but I have never had a “qualified answer”. However, it is my understanding that the newer latex printers run at about 20% lower heat settings. I do not know if this is for vinyl, or all media in general, but a step in the right direction for sure.

Heat settings in Latex printers have always been a thorn in its side as it can adversely affect “cheap” materials warping due to the heat. but personally, it has never concerned me. I like to weigh up the pros and Cons of a machine, and HP ticks a whole load of boxes.

[David Hammond]

Not a vehicle, but I printed this yesterday with the temp reduced to 90, laminated this morning and fitted straight away. Another warm clammy day, and it didn’t seem to grab as much, tomorrow’s job has been postponed so I may do some side by side tests with an offcut of this job and the last two van printed at 112.

[Jeff]

for me it IPA for everything. i get that there will be exceptions to the rule but i don’t buy into the whole special cleaners for “OUR vinyl” or no warranty. i do not know any sign maker that has had a warranty claim ever?!