Avery 1105 initial tack

[RobertLambie]

For many years, I have always noticed that the initial tack of vinyl in “humid, muggy weather” to have a higher bond. This goes back to the days when I even used Mactac, but happens regardless of the brand.

Direct sunlight obviously does it too, but that also turns the vinyl to a clingfilm state. But humid weather seems to stimulate the adhesive without the over stretchy vinyl face. So it easily catches you off guard because your handling it with more confidence, and bam, catches you off guard. 😀

[David Hammond]

Certainly caught me off guard, but I got it laid, the drivers side was far more challenging than the passenger side. Almost felt like when inks hadn’t outgassed… But it was printed on a latex.

[Martyn Heath]

Great design. like it aaa lot.

How did you do the groovy photos taking out the background, photoshop? makes a big difference

[David Hammond]

Cheers Martyn.

I was working on the original design, and I saw a van on the way into work that had a band and it got my attention, so that’s where the idea came from. Granted it used a few meters more of material.

To blur the photos I just use the portrait blur option on the Google Photos app, and the magic eraser for removing number plates 👍

[Leslie Anderson]

I agree the design is very nice. great work david. 🙌

[RobertLambie]

Sorry, I should have added, that the humid weather also increases the “surface heat of the vehicle”.
So if the surface of the vehicle is warmer than normal and the vinyl adhesive is also stimulated by the humid weather. then the initial tack can definitely tack quicker and catch us off guard.

I think humid weather on grey overcast days is the worst.

[Jeff]

I feel your pain david. i had this happen to me a couple of weeks back. i was blaming the application tape not being sticky enough and i lost some letters when i tacked on the job and then went to lift it and a few letters were left behind. i then had a logo to fit on the same van and it stuck like shit! 🤨

reading this it looks like i am not the only one. 🙄

[Jeff]

p.s. the van looks great buddy! 👍👍

[David Hammond]

At it again, with 1105, warm but not as warm as the last van… Jeeeze pulling our hair out especially the part over the roof. Bed sheeting the vinyl isn’t an option as it sticks as soon as it contacted the paint, and bubbles galore on the bonnet, the pattern didn’t help, but it’s as if the air channels had collapsed.

[David Hammond]

One other thought… The vinyl is printed on a latex, I haven’t adjusted the heater settings from the profile I am wondering if the heat is too high and affecting the adhesive on the vinyl?

[David Hammond]

I’ve sent some of the vinyl I had left from these two jobs down the Spandex (they didn’t supply the media) but after my training spoke to Jason down there and he asked me to send it down.

Initially he’s suggested it’s an out gassing issue (despite being printed on a latex), and that it’s likely moisture. The printed samples they have done on a resin printer were left 3 days before laminating and don’t show any curling, where as the samples I’ve sent (despite being printed weeks ago) are curling.

I was/am of the impression that latex doesn’t need to out gas, and reading the avery bulletin (1.16)

Drying and Curing
When printing MPI 1105 Easy Apply RS™, the following proper drying and curing times need to be
observed to preserve the performance of the film and adhesive:
• For conversion using solvent and eco-solvent inks, a minimum curing time of 24-48 hours for flat
applications and 72 hours for conforming and fleet applications is required, before overlaminating.
• Dry immediately after printing by hanging prints vertically to allow solvents to “fall” out of film.
• Drying/curing time will vary depending on location and environmental conditions. If a strong solvent
scent is present, or the film is softer than usual the drying process is not complete.
• For conversion using Latex inks, ensure the correct curing settings are used, by checking the printed image for signs of ink rewetting. If there are signs of ink rewetting shortly after printing, try increasing the curing temperature until no longer present. Once the correct drying and curing setting are used, no further curing after printing is required before laminating.

I’ll be speaking to Jase later on the phone, but interested to know others thoughts?

[RobertLambie]

Here is a job I installed last week.
Simple, flood-coating windows using Oracal metallic silver to resemble the finish of the building cladding.
these windows are on old factory units holding nothing but tyres inside, they already have window film on the inside, some windows with wood behind them, some cracked etc. they just want the mess hidden.

I arrived at about 3.30pm, the sky was pretty clear and blue, it wasn’t hot at all and the sun was already over the back of the units, but it was humid.
The first thing I did when I arrived was to feel with my hand if the glass was holding any heat. if anything, the glass was cool.

The vinyl was all taped up using Oracal paper application tape, so the vinyl will be easy to handle.
I had told the lads preparing the vinyl for me, “Not to bother trimming it down to size, I’ll trim the overhang of vinyl, once it is installed” This was because each window was 47 inches wide, but the roll was about 49 inches wide.
First, the windows were blade scraped, then pressure washed down with soapy water, water squeegee dry, and then wiped with Isopropyl alcohol.

I never apply vinyl with any application fluids, ever. So I am applying full-width panels of taped vinyl directly onto cool windows on a humid day.
However, as soon as I touch the glass with the vinyl, it is “stuck, on contact”.
I instantly knew this was not going to be easy and I already knew I was chancing my arm because of the humidity, but I went for it anyway. 🤨

I had planned to complete two units, (16 windows) by 5.30pm then head home, but I only completed the first unit!
I had zero problems other than the fact the vinyl was sticking on contact, so I had to make sure I took my time because I didn’t want to miss a squeegee swipe. Because the vinyl would not have lifted without stretching or snapping. I don’t use air-release coloured vinyl, so I had to make sure I didn’t get any bubbles either. the whole job had us both under pressure because there was zero margin for error.
To make matters worse. The excess vinyl that I had to trim off down each side of the glass… “it wouldn’t come off the aluminium window frame” The lad that was with me was at my back trying to get the vinyl off as quick as he could because of the bond was building up and it was coming off in small bits.

The job took me more than twice the time I had in mind and I know it was the humidity that was ultimately to blame. My point is, that this was not printed, laminated, or an out-gassed material. Still, it stuck like shit to a blanket.

[David Hammond]

I agree heat and humidity affects the adhesive and makes installation interesting… I just suspect this is more than heat related.

I sent the samples I had down to Spandex to try, and asked if they tried installing it to be told it was shocking… That’s in their training facility that’s far more controlled than my workshop, and I assume have compared it alongside their printed samples.

I’ve attached the pic they sent showing the vinyl curling, which I’m told to ‘out gassing’. I should get a call today from Spandex to chat more about it

[David Hammond]

Spoken to Jase down at Spandex.

The vinyl arrived with him by overnight courier, and he first removed the backing and did the finger test (poke it and see if it sticks) and it did, unlike the samples they printed and use for training down there. ~

Next he left the vinyl as shown in the picture overnight to see what happens, mine’s curled, there’s hasn’t – He believes this is an out gassing issue (yes printed on a latex) despite coming off ‘dry’ moisture may have become trapped on the take-up, and trapped when laminated the following day.

He’s tried installing the vinyl, and agreed it’s bloody awful to work with, resembling a cheap polymeric, with an initial high grab, air channels not working, the glide not working, nothing like the 1105 samples they had in house. He’s tried them in their training facility, which is a controlled environment, not too hot or cold, using the appropriate cleaners etc, so it kind of rules out the ‘ambient temperature’

I’m not disputing what he’s saying, but first time I’ve heard of having to out gas Latex, and from experience usually water reduced adhesion.

[RobertLambie]

The vinyl curling like that is possibly over-tensioning during lamination.
If it’s warm laminated in a humid room, it will make the vinyl or laminate more prone to stretch, creating surface tension.
However, surface tension during lamination can also be created even in cool working environments, it’s just as it sounds, a bit more tension on the roll. hence why I’m saying, that if you remove it from the liner and sit it down and you see curling, it is possible that the laminate is causing that.

This is not an answer to you having tacky vinyl, this is purely based on the curling.

However, latex water-based ink should not be capable of having such an adverse effect on vinyl in the way solvent can.

https://youtu.be/HvfQbskXQ6A?feature=shared

[David Hammond]

I agree, the pieces I cut last night and left on my bench don’t seem to have curled.

I’ve spoken with the supplier of the Avery, not Spandex, they kindly offered their assistance after I spoke to them following my training, and the HUGE difference in how the material performed (Obviously thanks to Spandex)

My supplier has agreed to send some samples back to Avery for testing, and we’ll see what comes of that as we’re all a bit miffed and can’t quite agree on a cause.

I deliberately haven’t named my supplier and won’t until Avery come back, I will say they’ve been excellent throughout.

[Gary Forbes]

could it not just be that the vinyl is faulty david?
i have had the odd roll of vinyl with a flaw and when i complain i feel it is just brushed under the carpet by excuses being made and i never hear back from the supplier.

[David Hammond]

That is what I am thinking, but we’ll wait and see what Avery says. Like you say it’s hard getting any manufacturer (media and hardware) to admit if there’s an issue.

[David Hammond]

Update on the complaint raised with Avery below, will see what happens with the next roll…

Material description: MPI 1105 EA RS Gloss Perm – Easy Apply RS
Size: 1,37×50
Quantity: 1 RL
Complaint description: Customer claims the material is not slideable.

Introduction:
The customer provided unprinted and printed samples.

Investigation:
The printed and unprinted customer samples were tested for peel adhesion after 20 mins according to standard laboratory methods.
An application test was performed.

Result:
Peel adhesion was found to be in specification both on the printed and unprinted customer samples.
The result of the application test was OK, no issue noticed with the material.

Conclusion:
The material performs within product specification and we cannot find a material defect based on the provided evidence. Therefore we reject this complaint.