Advice pricing Door Stickers please?

[David Rowland]

did they prove they paid £3?

[David Hammond]

Nope… but I have rang around other companies who’ve all come in under £4.00 each.

My maths gives me 6 plm at 1370 wide £24 PLM… 😮

[John Dorling]

It’s not relevant if they can prove they paid £3 or not. Fact is, you’re not going to do it for that! Charge what you need to charge and only cut into your own profit margin if you really want the job. I find rather than trying to compete on price with other companies, give the customer another reason to use you. Use good materials, and give them a good quality product. In a year’s time if the stickers are falling off and shrinking cos you used some cheap 3yr mono to get the job they will forget what they paid for them, but they won’t use you again! On the flip side, if they still look good after 3 years they will have forgotten that you weren’t the cheapest, but they will use you again.

That’s what I find anyway.

John

[John Harding]

If they dont like your price let it go to someone else rather than sell yourself cheap unless they agree to having your company name on every stciker in the corner as some sort of free advertising for you 😀

[Jason Davies]

full colour or single?

[David Hammond]

Full colour.

It doesn’t help that I am not selling to the end user. My customer add’s their markup on top of my price.

It’s a new customer who’s happy that I don’t let them down on delivery dates etc.

[Jamie Wood]

If you’re using monomeric, it should be doable for £3.00. We use a different pricing
model for long run stuff, which is the mainstay of our work, and we are set up for it.
People don’t want to pay the usual square metre price for volume work. We find it
works well for us, although I appreciate that it may not work for everyone.

[John Harding]

following on from Jamies comment I sub out long run stuff to a trade printer and put my mark up on it, I can earn more profit that way than fafing about making it in house, but get payment up front, otherwise you might just turn into a money lender.

John

[David Hammond]

Jamie £3 each does that include lamination?

I do a lot of trade work, which is ok, although notorious for slow paying.

I managed to churn out 5k window stickers. Having a separate printer and plotter, I can still print whilst cutting, so shouldn’t grind everything to a halt.

[Robert Lambie]

I am gob smacked at the price…. £3???

I am not being funny here, I’m based in the east end of Glasgow AND Scottish
so we have a reputation for being tight gits… :lol1:

But please, I would grunt at selling them blank bits of vinyl 10" x 23.5" 😕
never mind, print, laminate and contour cut!

seriously, laugh and tell them when they find the supplier, send them to you and you’ll start buying them in to sell on too.

Here is one i did similar scenario…

150 no. Taxis
= 300 side doors
Oracal 551
Single colour, Primrose yellow
Cut Graphic 12" x 24"

After a haggle and a bit of come and go…
it was settled on £25+vat per taxi fitted.

for the next few days there was a que of taxis in our estate, ine they come, one guy cleans the other fits the single graphic on each door, and back out again. a few minutes per car tops.
Each Taxi paid before he left.

This was about 3 years ago…
I remember it all clear as day because it was me that designed and priced the job. I also fitted the vast majority of them myself and taking the money each one i did…

Can you imagine jumping in a taxi and telling him to take you as far as he can for £3? He would drop you at the end of the road.
yet here you have to design, print, laminate, cut etc etc

Seriously mate… the only guy making money in this is the broker in the middle. If he could get those signs at that price he wouldnt be speaking with you in the first place.

count your costs on media
ink and printing
labour
count the total profit from all this work, then think, how many vans would i need in cut vinyl only to make that much money without all the hassle and more?

as has been said, price the job for one, give him the price and a price for taking in multiples of 100 at at a time.
Also put the terms of discount is that its paid up front.

if he has had anything in the past, its been screen printing onto crap cheap vinyl. there is always a way to find massive discounts in bulk buys, but let him go find them. if you do first, that’s another string to your bow. dont now start dropping your prices because your making more money.

[Phill Fenton]

quote David Hammond:

Sizes are 250x600mm.

They paid about £3.00 each a couple of years ago, and have tried another supplier who was similarly priced but didn’t last too long

That’s because the previous suppliers went out of business due to underpricing…don’t make the same mistake!!

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – "if we stop feeding the sharks they’ll eventually go away" 🙄

[Martin Pearson]

Tell him that you can do them at £3 each but they won’t last long either or you could do them with quality materials & they will last but the price will be £x each.

[Jamie Wood]

So…if they were screenprinted for this price, would this also be considered to be
underpriced and devaluing the industry? They are door panels, not a vehicle wrap. Why
is it assumed that they wouldn’t last long?

[Robert Lambie]

I get where your coming from Jamie, no disrespect intended towards Screen Printing, but…

Screen printing is renown for mass volume printing onto budget low cost materials. HIPs plastic for safety signs, cheap calendered vinyls etc…

The materials themselves often discolour and break after a short time exposed to the elements. Vinyls often shrink, crack and leave a ton of adhesive once removed. the inks themselves are bleached by the sun and offer very little resistance to UV damage. Artwork is also normally very basic.

screen printing also comes with a setup cost before a finger is lifted. then prices based on volume there after. what the customer often does is quote you "per sign" based on his screen print price, but isnt telling you the true volume they purchased at or the setup costs included. Nor do they take into consideration the material comparisons used.

screen printing isnt bespoke in as much as you cant change, tweak existing artwork here and there after the screens have been made… so the customer is back to the drawing board if any changes need made like a phone number.

my point isnt / wasnt to slate Screen Printing in any way…
It has been around for years and big business for high volume as is super wide format machines. but when products are produced in mass volume there is often a compromise on quality, turnaround etc etc

same scenario if it was digital printed onto quality digital film, but not laminated. it would still fade on a vehicle in a matter of months.

what this customer appears to be asking for a full colour digital prints, laminated and contour cut to be fitted onto vehicles. he wants an all singing all dancing product quoting rediculous prices. which is why if there is any glimmer of truth in his quote its because of similar type scenario above.

as i said, I am not knocking any aspect of our trade, horses for courses and all that. super wide format digital printing can be put into similar catagory as screen printing. in they can beat us hands down on mass volume, but compromise on DPI quality and media used. flip the table and we can offer high quality prints onto high end media in one off orders…

ill shut up now as i am rambling. :lol1:

[Jamie Wood]

Rob – I think you have misunderstood. My point was that if the job were screenprinted,
no-one would be discussing the price, but because they are digitally printed, somehow
you are expected to charge more, even though this job would be cheaper to produce
digitally.

To me, it looks like a simple rectangle (no contour cutting) , to go on a taxi door. Any
quality 3 year vinyl, when laminated, should be up to the job, particularly if the client
is looking for a cost effective product, and are made aware of the pitfalls of using 3
year vinyl. I don’t see the problem.

[David Hammond]

I wish to god I could charge anywhere near what some people do.

Jamie the job is that simple.

Artwork supplied, print laminate and cut, supply only.

There’s the cost of material, the machine time, labour.

I understand it’s not worth clogging up my machine for a day when there are more profitable ways to use it.

Hypothetically lets say I did the job for £3.00 each, that’s £600.

Material & laminate costs under £200 using a 3yr monomeric vinyl. That just leaves ink and labour… which if it can be done in-between other jobs, left to run over night it’s money on top of other work.

Trouble is I would rather make £500 than £300, which is why I don’t want to sell myself short.

[John Dorling]

I think the problem is that as soon as a customer tells you what they are going to pay for a job, rather than asking how much it will be, you may as well walk away.

If I go into town to buy some shoes, I don’t go into the shop, try a pair on and then take them to the counter and go "I could get some shoes like this for a tenner elsewhere so that’s what I’m giving you for them". You would get laughed at.

People might say "signs are not shoes and this is a totally different industry" but why is that? We call have costs we need to cover. You know that the shoes probably have at least 100% markup on them, but that is to cover rent, rates, bills and wages. Same with a sign maker/baker/candlestick maker. The only room you have for reducing the price is your own profit, and I personally have a problem with someone else deciding what my profit margin should be.

Work out what it will cost you to do the job, add a bit more (probably a percentage) to cover the unforeseen issues (every job has those) then add a bit more for profit. If you think that the customer has regular work and will come back to you if you give him a good price then you may want to cut your margin as you might get regular work from them, but don’t try and work backwards to a price they tell you they can get them for as it’s a slippery slope!

John

[David Hammond]

I asked what if he knew what they paid last time, and the customer never said I want to pay £3 each.

This usually gives you a good idea what the customer is expecting. As we’ve all assumed he wants it dirt cheap.

Next thing to find out is, if they’re so cheap why are they looking elsewhere?

That’s because the last set all started peeling and fading, and weren’t very good.

I’m now guessing that I can charge more provided quality is there, but how much more?

The end user won’t know the difference between two prints, one laminated, the other not, one on monomeric the other on polymeric, all they see is the difference in price.

If they’ve paid £3 each, I would imagine keeping it under £5 would be acceptable to the customer.

[John Dorling]

If you can afford to do it for that and you are happy with the profit you will be making then go for it!

Better price them quick though or the customer will have gone elsewhere!

John

[Hugh Potter]

If you want the work and doing it in a hurry isn’t putting off more profitable work then go for it.

I would personally not do a laminates and cut sign at that price, that’s probably what I pay to my trade printer!

give the guy two prices – both more than he’s wanting to pay!

one at say £5, for the basic "take a chance it’ll last" job or £8 for the good laminated stuff that will last.

I’m with Rob to be honest. Charge a fair price, you’d get nothing for £3 these days that’s any use to you – ok, a good squeegee is around that, but make it worth your while.

I was chatting today with a local signmaker, we’re both busy doing garments, vehicles and odds n ends but neither of us have done many shops lately, we’ve both quoted and it sounds like we’re both quoting composite panels trays etc but someone keeps going in with cheap plastic. doesn’t matter how I try to educate the customer, they mostly seem to go on price alone.

I would, and occasionally do, much rather sell good quality signage with some discount, than the volume cheap stuff all day that is likely to come back at me, I’m not (usually) busy enough that I can turn work down but some jobs I really don’t want, they’re more hassle than they’re often worth.

I find customers who want the cheapest, are more often than not the ones you need to spend the most time with. just not worth it sometimes.

[Stephen Morriss]

Based on your prices your probably about right with the £6 each.
Don’t forget each time the printer fires some ink outs that’s one step closer to needing new heads, servicing, replacement parts etc.

Steve

[Phill Fenton]

The price it guide suggest £42.38 per sq. m for orders over 10 sq. m

This works out at £6.35 ea.

[Kevin Flowers]

David
i think the problem with some of these prices are that they are retail prices but you are offering a Trade Service We offer a trade service @ £35 per square meter this equates to £4.20 + VAT per label. That will give you a tidy profit for basically operating a machine, only you will know how long it will take you but i bet its more profitable than the van you did last week.

Just my thoughts hope you get the job at the price you need

Kev