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which is best printer/cutter or separate printer and cutter?
Hello chaps and chapesses, long time, no write 😉
I am now considering buying an ecosolvent printer, but as I make name labels and stickers, need them Contour cut. Would value opinions on which is best a combined printer/cutter or two separate machines – with reasons please.
Thanks.
Joanna -
21 Replies
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Hi Joanna. As for many years I have been Mimaki through and through, it’s going to be very odd for me to recommend a Roland SP/VP/XC machine :lol1:
The reason for that is I’ve now seen quite a few of them and they’re a lot simpler than the Mimaki’s. The quality might not be quite as good as the Mimaki but they are plenty good enough for most applications. This would give you your print OR cut solution (as in, you can’t cut while printing and vice versa). If I was to recommend a seperate printer and cutter (print AND cut) then it would have to be the Mimaki I think. A JV33 with CGFX cutter is a great combination and it comes free with Finecut so you can use Illustrator or Corel as your cutting package. As I type this though, I remember how good the CJV-30 is, which is a print/cut machine. So there’s a couple of things to look into…
Stafford
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quote Stafford Cox:Hi Joanna. As for many years I have been Mimaki through and through, it’s going to be very odd for me to recommend a Roland SP/VP/XC machine :lol1:The reason for that is I’ve now seen quite a few of them and they’re a lot simpler than the Mimaki’s. The quality might not be quite as good as the Mimaki but they are plenty good enough for most applications. This would give you your print OR cut solution (as in, you can’t cut while printing and vice versa). If I was to recommend a seperate printer and cutter (print AND cut) then it would have to be the Mimaki I think. A JV33 with CGFX cutter is a great combination and it comes free with Finecut so you can use Illustrator or Corel as your cutting package. As I type this though, I remember how good the CJV-30 is, which is a print/cut machine. So there’s a couple of things to look into…
Stafford
Thanks for the advice. Simple (as far as I am concerned) is good.
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Hello Joanna!,
Have you managed to get any further with your thoughts on an eco-solvent printer?
I saw your post and thought that I’d offer my point of view…
I work for Roland and therefor don’t think it’s right for me to get into a debate about whether you should go for Roland or Mimaki or any other machine as that is not fair or what you were asking for 😕My initial response to reading your post was a print and cut machine- as then you have the option to do one, the other, or both! A print and cut machine does everything you need and keeps it nice and simple and easy with one bit of kit.
However…
I think it depends on a couple of things- the amount and type of work you’re producing.
If you’re a very busy outfit and think that you would be constantly pushing through prints, 6-8 hours a day and you would like the machine to simply print print print whilst you prep the results, then I’d say getting both a printer and a cutter may work well for you. The reason being that you can be cutting your prints whilst your printer keeps working.
If you’re not expecting to be printing 100-200m/sq per day then print and cut will be fine and will save you time and therefor money on man hours! The machine will do everything for you, no need to swap the output between different machines.
Would you be laminating? If so then once again this will change the dynamic of your work-if you had 2 machines you can prep,laminate and cut whilst the other is still printing. If not, no need for the 2 machines, again-save on labor costs.
If you think that you will be ruining straight prints- banners and such as well as your stickers/labels then you may want a separate cutter for whilst this work is printing. But again this depends on your time, print and cut machines will do it all- and make your life easier/free up time!If you were thinking that you might like to cut regular coloured vinyl whilst you print posters, again separate machines might be best.
Hope that makes sense and helps you out a little!?
It’s never as straight forward as it first seems eh!
As an end note I’d go back to my first thought, seeing as you’re printing labels and stickers I’d say keep it simple and go print and cut in one device 😀
Let us know how you get on,
RegardsJoe
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quote Joe Wigzell:Hello Joanna!,
Have you managed to get any further with your thoughts on an eco-solvent printer?
I saw your post and thought that I’d offer my point of view…
I work for Roland and therefor don’t think it’s right for me to get into a debate about whether you should go for Roland or Mimaki or any other machine as that is not fair or what you were asking for 😕My initial response to reading your post was a print and cut machine- as then you have the option to do one, the other, or both! A print and cut machine does everything you need and keeps it nice and simple and easy with one bit of kit.
However…
I think it depends on a couple of things- the amount and type of work you’re producing.
If you’re a very busy outfit and think that you would be constantly pushing through prints, 6-8 hours a day and you would like the machine to simply print print print whilst you prep the results, then I’d say getting both a printer and a cutter may work well for you. The reason being that you can be cutting your prints whilst your printer keeps working.
If you’re not expecting to be printing 100-200m/sq per day then print and cut will be fine and will save you time and therefor money on man hours! The machine will do everything for you, no need to swap the output between different machines.
Would you be laminating? If so then once again this will change the dynamic of your work-if you had 2 machines you can prep,laminate and cut whilst the other is still printing. If not, no need for the 2 machines, again-save on labor costs.
If you think that you will be ruining straight prints- banners and such as well as your stickers/labels then you may want a separate cutter for whilst this work is printing. But again this depends on your time, print and cut machines will do it all- and make your life easier/free up time!If you were thinking that you might like to cut regular coloured vinyl whilst you print posters, again separate machines might be best.
Hope that makes sense and helps you out a little!?
It’s never as straight forward as it first seems eh!
As an end note I’d go back to my first thought, seeing as you’re printing labels and stickers I’d say keep it simple and go print and cut in one device 😀
Let us know how you get on,
RegardsJoe
Hi Joe,
Useful to have a Roland person to talk to. I am over in Hungary (as my profile says) and at the moment am looking at second hand machines over here. As you probably know, Rolands are very reliable so people tend to hang on to them and they don’t come up for sale often (over here for sure), but at the moment two older machines are available. One is a cut and print SC500 and the other is a FJ52. Could you give me any advice regarding these two machines? I know they won’t be as fast as new machines, but I am going into a new area in my business and don’t want to spend more than the price of my little car on a printer. I know that the sc500 is 12 years old and had a new motherboard and was upgraded to ecosolvent about 18 months ago. The man had the printer from new – first owner.
The FJ52 i know less about. He only bought it a couple of months ago for a job that didn’t come together, I think he hasn’t used it since then. What kind of questions should I be asking to make sure I won’t get ripped off. BTW, I bought a PC600 print and cut thermoresin last year and am now looking to upgrade to this next level, so am proceeding quite rapidly, but just can’t bring myself to spend such a load of money on a new machine. Oh, and a digital printer acquaintance said that these inks don’t dry that quickly and if you cut where the printing is (cut and print), then the ink runs into the cut. Surely this can’t be true???
Looking forward to hearing from you and thanks in advance for your invaluable advice.
Best wishes,
J. -
Hiya,
Of the 2 machines you mentioned I would definitely say the SC500 over the FJ52. However I would advise trying to find something a little bit newer if you can find/afford it! Both of those machines are so old that you won’t be able to get support should something go wrong that isn’t an easy fix. Having the eco-solvent upgrade will help but as you mentioned it will be a very slow machine.
If at all possible I would try and go for at least an SC545 but preferably an SP300v. It is a fine line to balance but the extra money if you can get it can be made back at double the speed if you work it right.
With regards to the inks running into the cut lines, I can’t honestly answer as I haven’t seen that machine print as it’s so old- however that is not normally the case with print and cut machines. You can always leave a drying time should you be worried about this though.
I would run as many different test prints/cuts when you’re in front of the machine as possible if you can before buying- so you can see any problems. Ask to be shown what the previous owner knows about the machine-parts etc.
Always check the print heads too for damage.
Good luck!
Joe -
Hi We are on our second Roland cut and print Machine and wouldn’t change.
We do a lot of small print and cut shaped labels as well a larger prints for signs and vans. We have never been that busy when we need two separate machines because we need to cut and print at the same time.
I would say go for new and lease it so you pay as you earn with it.
Roland cover Hungary so you should not have a problem with service or breakdowns etc. Your choices of such old technologies wold be a problem I think and you don’t need that when you have a lot of work to do.
One thing to bear in mind is that you will definitely need some kind of laminator as all solvent prints need laminating if they are going to be put where they can be touched as no solvent ink is completely scratchproof.
If you don’t need a big 54" machine then get the smaller Roland and one of the small hand laminating machines which you can get for a couple of hundred pounds which I have posted about before.
http://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.p … =laminator -
Hi think everything has been said, I got seperate print and cut set up as once I hit the print button someone always comes in and wants some cut vinyl or name on a t shirt, so I find it better for me and my work flow as I am not sat around waiting for my printer to finish before I can cut vinyl
I use to have a print and cut machine so I have tried both ways. hope that helps -
quote Martin Oxenham:Hi We are on our second Roland cut and print Machine and wouldn’t change.
We do a lot of small print and cut shaped labels as well a larger prints for signs and vans. We have never been that busy when we need two separate machines because we need to cut and print at the same time.
I would say go for new and lease it so you pay as you earn with it.
Roland cover Hungary so you should not have a problem with service or breakdowns etc. Your choices of such old technologies wold be a problem I think and you don’t need that when you have a lot of work to do.
One thing to bear in mind is that you will definitely need some kind of laminator as all solvent prints need laminating if they are going to be put where they can be touched as no solvent ink is completely scratchproof.
If you don’t need a big 54″ machine then get the smaller Roland and one of the small hand laminating machines which you can get for a couple of hundred pounds which I have posted about before.
http://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.p … =laminatorHi!
What is this laminating thing? I am going to be printing iron-on transfer material (for name labels) – assuming that doesn’t need to be laminated, and then some kind of vinyl for labels in shoes – with which I always supply clear covers and then the other labels would be for toothmugs and toothbrushes. How durable is durable? I thought solvent or ecosolvent inks were as durable as thermoresin. My sticky labels need to survive for maximum three years (for toothmugs). If solvent printing is not the solution for durable print, what is? At present I do this work using Epson durabrite inks and my printing stays beautifully for literally years (four so far and counting). So good to have all your input 🙂 -
quote Joe Wigzell:Hiya,
Of the 2 machines you mentioned I would definitely say the SC500 over the FJ52. However I would advise trying to find something a little bit newer if you can find/afford it! Both of those machines are so old that you won’t be able to get support should something go wrong that isn’t an easy fix. Having the eco-solvent upgrade will help but as you mentioned it will be a very slow machine.
If at all possible I would try and go for at least an SC545 but preferably an SP300v. It is a fine line to balance but the extra money if you can get it can be made back at double the speed if you work it right.
With regards to the inks running into the cut lines, I can’t honestly answer as I haven’t seen that machine print as it’s so old- however that is not normally the case with print and cut machines. You can always leave a drying time should you be worried about this though.
I would run as many different test prints/cuts when you’re in front of the machine as possible if you can before buying- so you can see any problems. Ask to be shown what the previous owner knows about the machine-parts etc.
Always check the print heads too for damage.
Good luck!
JoeHi again!
I have since spoken to the Roland service guy over here and he also guided me towards the sc500 – although said I would be better off with a sp540 (but just can’t find them). He will also, for a fee, go out and check the machine over for me – which would be rather useful as his expert opinion will still cost less than any other option.
Problem is – generally – that over here things are overpriced. Especially second hand. And list prices are the same here as in the UK, but an average wage over here, is say…250-300 pounds per month (not mine, but in general – just putting you in the picture). I shipped my pc600 over from the UK, but we were back home visiting and we packed it ourselves – it looked like a coffin – and I wouldn’t want to risk that with another more expensive machine as it is only a matter of time before they drop it…
Will keep you informed. Thanks again for the input. -
quote Lee Horton:Hi think everything has been said, I got seperate print and cut set up as once I hit the print button someone always comes in and wants some cut vinyl or name on a t shirt, so I find it better for me and my work flow as I am not sat around waiting for my printer to finish before I can cut vinyl
I use to have a print and cut machine so I have tried both ways. hope that helpsHi!
I don’t let customers come near me (all done via my website), so wouldn’t have that problem. This particular product I produce in advance, so probably print and cut combi is the way forward, as I assume I can just leave the machine there to work for a couple of hours then come back and chop up the sets. I have a separate vinyl cutter as well, which I shall keep, as realise that limiting everything to one machine would be foolhardy.
Thanks for your input 🙂 -
quote Joe Wigzell:Hiya,
Of the 2 machines you mentioned I would definitely say the SC500 over the FJ52. However I would advise trying to find something a little bit newer if you can find/afford it! Both of those machines are so old that you won’t be able to get support should something go wrong that isn’t an easy fix. Having the eco-solvent upgrade will help but as you mentioned it will be a very slow machine.
If at all possible I would try and go for at least an SC545 but preferably an SP300v. It is a fine line to balance but the extra money if you can get it can be made back at double the speed if you work it right.
With regards to the inks running into the cut lines, I can’t honestly answer as I haven’t seen that machine print as it’s so old- however that is not normally the case with print and cut machines. You can always leave a drying time should you be worried about this though.
I would run as many different test prints/cuts when you’re in front of the machine as possible if you can before buying- so you can see any problems. Ask to be shown what the previous owner knows about the machine-parts etc.
Always check the print heads too for damage.
Good luck!
JoeHi Joe!
I took your advice and ended up buying an sp300v. I had it checked out first by the Roland service guy in Hungary and he said it was all ok. However I now have the following problem. I have a media – 3G jet opaque by Neenah and it is printing with too much ink, bleeding. I can’t find a profile for this material and don’t know how to adjust the ink quantity or print quality (same thing). Can you advise.
Thanks. -
Hi what rip software are you using?
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Hi!
We have the Versaworks program, but my husband has also written a print program which we previously used on our colourcamm pc600. It also works with this printer, but the printer is sending too much ink, so the black is bleeding. The person I get the paper from said I need to treat it like a normal ink jet printer, using a lower print quality, not photo quality and then it will be ok, but of course, these printers aren’t that simple. 🙁quote Lee Horton:Hi what rip software are you using? -
Have you asked the supplier for a profile for the media? The supplier should be able to give you the profile you require, I’m sure your husband is more than capable of writing a driver for the printer but you really would be better off using versaworks as you should be able to balance the media you are using with the correct profile.
Ink limits & quality are not necessarily the same thing, Colour profiling is almost a business in itself lol
Try your supplier for a profile or try the company who make it. You could also try Roland as I am sure they will have a wide range of profiles for versaworks. -
Same as what Martin says, if you have versaworks on your computer then go to Quality-media type-and select from the list as there is a generic paper setting in there which is ok, you might have to set the feed on your printer to stop banding.
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Hi guys!
The UK supplier was no use, he obviously does not have the profiles, so I shall have to write to Roland and Neenah.The problem with using Versaworks, at present, is that if we send the data from my husband’s program (clever thing, enables us to just tick pictures and then stickers sets of those pictures are printed in whatever quantity we need, so very fast), to Versaworks the printer prints, but then doesn’t cut. I am sure we will solve this in time too. I have a Siser product too, and the manufacturer supplier the profile for that – and it produced completely different colours, which better resembled what I see on the monitor interestingly enough.
I am off to read the handbook today in case that makes me any wiser. Yesterday by increasing the temperature we were able to improve the print quality to an acceptable level, but still too much ink is being fed, and I don’t know where to set that. And I shall write to Roland and Neenah.
Thanks for all your help so far.
J -
Will check the generic paper you mention. What is the feed – am I going to find that in the handbook today?
quote Lee Horton:Same as what Martin says, if you have versaworks on your computer then go to Quality-media type-and select from the list as there is a generic paper setting in there which is ok, you might have to set the feed on your printer to stop banding. -
The profiles make a huge difference so try some of the roland ones supplied in versaworks.
Also the lower print settings put more ink down each time, the higher settings do the printing in finer strips but take longer.
Are the heaters turned on and at the right temperature, for most vinyls I use around 40 degrees and have the printer set to control the heat not the profile.Steve
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Hi Steve!
Yes, I can see that the profile makes a big difference in colour. We have tried using the high quality or high speed options, but this seems to make no difference whatsoever. We thought using the high speed setting might reduce the amount of ink used (like a draft setting on a regular printer), and so solve the problem, but it didn’t. So am I understanding you correctly, that the high speed in fact uses more ink?
My ideal solution will be to manually set the profile then print via our own program. Fingers crossed.
Thanks for your advice.
JoHeaters are on – but what is the right temperature? I know that hubbie tried using a generic transfer paper setting and manually increased the temperature from 37 to 40 or 41
quote Stephen Morriss:The profiles make a huge difference so try some of the roland ones supplied in versaworks.
Also the lower print settings put more ink down each time, the higher settings do the printing in finer strips but take longer.
Are the heaters turned on and at the right temperature, for most vinyls I use around 40 degrees and have the printer set to control the heat not the profile.Steve
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On the Tshirt heat press material we use I just use the Versaworks Generic vinyl 1 on high quality. I also use this for most of my vinyls
I’m also on the Roland eco sol max inks.
When you use the high speed settings the heads are putting more ink on at once, they are not draft but are printing with less head passes.
I tend to use high quality or standard to keep banding down, depends what I’m printing for.
By the way I’m no expert, but I’ve had an SP300 and now a SP540 for 5 years or more so these are my experiences.
Steve
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Thanks for the info Steve.
Very useful to know the difference between the speed and quality settings. What kind of transfer vinyl do you use?
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